| Author | Message | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
I normally dont camp at Rv parks But from I saw most have the pole on the drivers side. For you out there that spend time in differnt parks. How far from the rear of the bus does most poles and dump connection come to? I am putting my holding tank and water tank in the rear bay on My 4905 I think is more to the rear then the last bay on a 40' mci or eagle I dont have a extra axle taking up that space. I dont think I will have any problems but just wanted to know where most hookups are located after your parked. Also I dont want to cut any holes in the bay door . I can cut a hole in the floor and go down but would that be to low? And I dont want to leave the door open. Last question any reason I would want a dump on the other side also? Thanks Brian the panhandler 4905 | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
The power pole is not always near the sewer or water hookup, nor is it always on the side you need. Most parks try to conform in keeping it all on the driver's side, but we've found everything you can imagine at the various campgrounds. And finding the sewer connection on the opposite side wasn't all that uncommon! Buy extensions for water, sewer and electric to reach a minimum of 60 foot; More is better. With the extensions on hand and adapters to meet any and all configurations of sewer or electrical provisions, you'll be a whole lot happier than if you try to rely on the notion that everything meets a certain standard. You will also find that some sewer connections are as high or higher than the area you're parked at. Some dump stations are quite a bit higher..... You'll want to keep your connections at a reasonable level, or you'll never get it dumped. A macerator will solve the problem, if you can see your way to get one. | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A |
Brian, all of my utilities are in the last bay of my 4905, ( all electric-no lpg) and all of them exit through the floor. In the last 4 1/2 years of full timing, and over 20,000 miles in 37 states I have never had one problem hooking up with my system, which incidently conforms to Codes. The various Codes call for the sewer/electric to exit not farther than 15 feet from the rear bumper. New Code says you can't have a dump line on the curb (passenger) side. I have a 25 ft. 50A power cord and have never used more than a 15 ft piece of sewer hose. I have a combined black/gray tank and have never had the need for a macerator (which I have). Perhaps a dual tank setup may force you to use one though. Cheers...JJ | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
My travel findings in the US are like JJ's , and even in Canada they seem to use the US std. and a 30 ft RV power cord is fine although 15a not 30A seems the norm. Many older pretty places will only hava a waste dump location , not plumbing at every site. Fresh water like electric IS usually at every site. FAST FRED | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Brian- At Lake Kissimee State park, the Power would be beyond your front bumper (driver's side) if you are backed in fully as you should be. The water is about 10' or so back from the power on the same side. Fully backed in, you would need enough power cord to go from your bay to beyond your front bumper. A 40' bus? Sewer is at the dump station. At Long Key State Park, the power is either on the right or left depending on which spot you take. The power and water for each site are at the same location between each two sites. They prefer you pull in, and it's beneficial, since each site is 20' from the Ocean. Each Power and water hookup will be about 1/2 way between your front and rear bumper. Due to trees and natural foliage, you cannot get the side of your vehicle very close to the supply. You may need to go under the vehicle and across about 20' at minimum to connect. At many sites you will need to use an extension for power if you only have the standard shoreline. There are two dump stations. At Jetty Park (Cape Canaveral), The power and water are not together at most sites. I needed a 20' extension to get to the power at the spot they directed me to. I had to go to the local WalMart (about 3 miles away) to buy an extra garden hose to reach the water supply.... Those are just three of the many, many parks we've been at in the 10 or so years we've been RVing. I won't bore you with a list of all others..... Some of the private parks are worse, some better... We've stayed at parks throughout the entire east coast, New England included. I wouldn't travel without extensions and adapters for every hookup. Prepare for the unexpected, and you won't regret it | ||
| Don/TX
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I can pretty much echo the guidance presented above. On my 4905 I had dump drains on both sides, and never ever had to use the passenger side one. I ran mine thru the floor, but with the valve inside the bay, the connection was therefore flush with the bottom of the bus bay door. There is an electrical code that prohibits the power cord from exiting the bus further than 3 feet if I recall correctly, from the main fuse box. I ran my cord thru a hole in the floor, with a cap to protect it from incoming splash water on the road, and of course you will need more than thirty feet for the campgrounds that have the power pole in the rear of the space, or a 50 amp extension cord, which I think is better,use only when needed. | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
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My experience has been like Fast Fred. Canadian and US codes are harmonized, with the same requirements for location of power cord and sewer drain connections so generally there should be no problem. My water hose, power cord and sewer hose all exit through the floor. I used a regular RV type circular power cord access door for the power cord (30A) and the fresh water line and a deck plate for the sewer hose access. The connection for the sewer hose is inside the bay so there is no problem with anything protruding below the floor when underway. I have an extension for my sewer hose and also carry a 30A extension cord and an extra length of fresh water hose, but generally never need to use them. Dave D | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
We travel with another couple and frequently take adjoining sites. We pull one in & back one in, open the awnings together and have a little "family courtyard." Also as others have mentioned, lots of times you will want to pull in if your site is on a lake or other nice view. So between the above reasons and the fact that many campgrounds do not conform to the standard location, AND that ocasionally, your power may not work but the next site will, you will need enough power cord to reach the front bumper, a 25' extension to that, at least 20 feet of sewer (30 is better) preferably in 10' lengths, and a 25' white WATER ONLY hose with a 25' extension. You also need a short hose (about 10') for flushing the sewer hose. I use an old one with the male end cut off so it can't be used as an extension to the drinking water hose. You'd be surprised how many dump stations do not have hoses on the hose bibs. Our connections are in the right rear bay with the sewer exiting through the floor but flush with the bottom of the bus. If it doesn't go through the floor, you can have some pretty messy spills in the bay. | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the Ideas and help. I think I will go through the floor for all hoses and electral and have the connection in the bay so if I need it to exit up high I can just leave the door open to dunp the tank. The 3'power cord exit from the main fuse box I did not know about . My main box is in the first bay it was there when I picked up my bus. I was wanting all the hook ups in the rear bay . Is there any code or any other problem with having the main fuse box in the bay with the tanks? Then running the power making the box in the first bay a sub PNL? Brian 4905 The Dalles OR | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
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Don, Please give more details of the code you've mentioned requiring power cord entrance within 3' of a "main panel". I had a commercially built stick and staple and it certainly violated that code. Most codes have a logical reason(safety based), I certainly see none for this one. I am in violation if it is real. My shore cord is in my left rear bay and connects to a piece of 6-4 romex inside a junction box attached to the roof of the bay. The 6-4 romex goes through conduit to the tunnel and runs forward in the tunnel to my transfer switch (in the old HVAC bay). The output of the inverter/generator/shore selected in the transfer switch goes to my AC breaker panel which is directly to the right of the coplilot's seat. Where would this code start the 3', at the breaker panel, the transfer switch box, or somewhere else? I'd like to be code compliant but wonder how? Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Well, it is in the Rec Vehicle portion of the NEC, I don't have one handy right now, but can assure you it is there. The 3 feet may be 4 feet, cannot remember for sure, but was measured from the fused box inside the bus to the exit point. Every RV I ever owned, and I have had many, always were in compliance with this code. I had the same situation, fuse box up front, and wanted a shorter outside run. I considered just ignoring the code, but as was pointed out to me, that is a 50amp cord protected only by the mains on either end. A short in that long stretch to the rear of the bus is what they are trying to avoid, and it does make sense, since that fire can be outside rather than inside. I just used a longer cord, exited from the front bay, the cord laid under the bus anyway with the floor exit. Running a main in the rear bay with a feeder to the front bay should be fine so far as the code goes I would think. If it were me doing it again, I would just use longer OUTSIDE cords I think, it caused no real problems, and often with a 40 foot bus I would be backed in so far, with the hookups about midship, worked well. If Richard/KS reads this, he is the one that showed it to me originally, he is an electrition for a living as well. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Don - I think that there might be a requirement for a 'disconnect' w/in 3' - like an HVAC unit - Niles | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
A 3' power cord? What the hell good is that? My toaster cord is longer than that.... Every RV made has a 15-25' power cord of either 30 or 50 amp connected to the bus. The power panel/circuit box is usually within 10' of the power cord connection. Some sanity here, ehh? | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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JTNG - put down the wacky weed and reread Don's 1st post - then his last - then post "Some sanity here, EH! (don't you remember your Canadian)" | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Ahhhh.... Don!! You answered whilst I wuz typing... Still hazy, though... Exactly what are you referring to? In both RVs we've owned (and the many that I've looked closely at, at the repair shop I spent many long days at), all had a breaker-box someplace in the vehicle that was well beyond the exit point of the shoreline. Our Winnebago's breakers were under the fridge (center of the 33' rv), while the shoreline exited behind the rear axle. The Georgie-Boy's circuit panel was under the bed in the rear and the shoreline exited at the side/rear, about 8' from the box. Both RVs had romex from the shoreline entrance to the breakers, and I believe that's the norm.... So... what's with the 3' thing? | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
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Don, I really want a specific reference(section and paragraph). When I plug into a campground's outlet any short in my bus should trip their breaker or does the code not require that they have a fuse or breaker. Does someone believe that 3' will never contain a short but longer will. Regarding a disconnect why, there is a plug,it's a disconnect. I guess I could replace my junction box with a 50 amp breaker but that's just reducing reliability and no gain in safety. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Niles- Heh heh heh...... (puffffff) (where's my munchies) Heh heh heh.. Yeah... ok... So.... the 3' thing? wazzat? Really.... some guys get all worked up over "codes"...... The confusion here should be cleared up before they go nuts worrying about a mis-statement. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Hello campers. Perhaps this will help with the confusion? The principle is: you want the incoming power cables to reach a breaker in the shortest distance possible. Less mileage of "unprotected cable" running inside, the better is the point to this code example. Like your house, where the wires enter the house inside pipe and the main breaker is just inside. Perhaps another way to say it: You want as much of the cable inside your RV protected by your breakers, not the campground's! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
AS was explained to me by an EE - whenever the NEC requires a disconnect within a certain 'distance' of a particular connection/service it is usually for 240 volt (since 110 ain't gonna kill ya), is a safety requirement (i.e. you plug in your shore cable and the sparks start flying at the shore panel or somewhere in your RV - your not gonna want to grab the plug and pull it out or reach for the PP Main Breaker - or the time it takes to reach the RV Main Panel may be too long), or that a lot of electricians are lazy and may not take the time to go to the Main Panel and disconnect the supply to the branch service (such as HVAC) risking damage to themselves and/or the equipment - ***DISCLAIMER - I am not an Electrician or an EE, the above was merely hearsay and may or may not be true, I am a certified idiot (there, I think i covered it all). But it does make some sense to me. Niles | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Ok......... From Don's post: "measured from the fused box inside the bus to the exit point" So, the romex from the fuse panel to the point it connects to the shoreline should not be in excess of 3 (or 4) feet. (?) That would seem to make sense, but as Jerry pointed out, what difference would it make? The park's breakers should stop the damage, as well as the RV's breakers, in the event of a short. Well. I don't care. My panel's going in the last bay along with the holding tanks and all other services that will fit. The cord's going to exit there also.... But for Brian? Brian..... I'd make the front panel a sub panel and run the supply to the real breaker box at the rear where you want it.. Sounds good to me! You'll have a breaker where it's handy, at the power entrance. Codes..... ugh. (Niles.... where's the weed?) | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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JTNG - ((((cough))))((((cough)))) .....errr....what weed ? | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
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Niles, Whoever told you that "110 ain't gonna kill you" was ABSOLUTELY WRONG. The NEC has all manner of requirements for GFCI's and grounding for the simple reason that 120 volts is LETHAL. The time to reach the 'fuse panel'? The panel that's on the inside of the motorhome on the back wall to comply with this 3 foot nonsense. If we need a disconnect within 3 feet it better be acessable from the outside of the vehicle. Please show me the motorhome that has one. I too have a BSEE. so what, I'm still not a code guru. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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I will look up tomorrow, but having just read it a few weeks ago, I believe the NEC says 18", if I remember right. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Jerry - I wondered how long it would be for some one to catch the "ain't gonna kill ya" statement - BTW my transfer switch is located more than 3' from my shore cord - Niles | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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Chuck, you are right it's 18 inches, but used to be 3 feet. [NEC 551.46.(E)] It's 18 inches because people with Jtng's "common sense" kept driving off with the cord hanging out, and when it caught under the wheel it ripped the side out of the motorhome! Jtng keeps talking of "common sense", and "campgrounds". The reason there are Codes to guide us is because most folks don't have enough common sense to keep from killing themselves and their neighbors. My neighbor died from a 12 volt door bell transformer. Perhaps the reason he has problems is the "campgrounds" he stays in, instead of RV parks, which have to conform to Code or they can't get liability insurance. Cheers...JJ | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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JJ - That sounds like a very rational reason, but how is that requirement going to keep JTNG from runnin over his cord? - LOL - Niles | ||
| Dave S Rating: N/A |
As Daved stated Canadian and US codes are harmonized, at least in large part. Canadian standard, Z240 does not rule on distance between power entry and distribution panel. The standard does state : 4.4.1 A distribution panelboard of the dead front type shall be installed in each recreational vehicle. A main disconnecting means shall be provided where fuses are used or where two or more circuit breakers are used. A main overcurrent protective device rated not higher than the power supply assembly rating shall be provided where two or more branch ciruits are used. 4.4.2 (a) A panelboard shall be readily accessible from inside the vehicle. As with all of the electrical code and standards use of the word "shall" means - mandatory. My own experience with power pole location is that I've never seen a 50A service that needed longer than standard cord, 30A OK about 70%, 15A can be almost anywhere. | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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Florida has only 16 RV Parks listed on their Register of Facilities. Kissimee, Long Key, and Jetty Park are officially "campgrounds" and only open from 8:00 AM 'til sundown, 365 days a year. Manager Tony Morrel at Kissimee says it's basically a "primitive" campground, not an RV Park. ...JJ | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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I can think up a few alternate definitions of a BSEE.... Duh.... I attended a network training class once in Tuscon and the main guru guy came out and announced that he was an NARPHD, He didn't explain what that meant until the end of the session. Not A Real P.H.D. A person doesn't always have to have credentials to be qualified as an expert on something. We learn, listen and do our own and become our own form of specialist as the need arises. One of my "bosses" at work has a degree in engineering, Big University and 4 years training as a mechanical engineer. Has certifications in many areas. And yet has not a single clue about anything. I know this because I am the one asked to fix things, engineer ways to make things work and actually do the work. I asked "her" one day about her hands on experience in class, The answer was that "she" just watched as other people did the actual work and wouldn't ever consider getting her hands dirty. Good at taking notes and doing the book learning. I guess it comes down to what an Army seargent told me one time. Look son, I am not a commissioned officer, I work for a living... Don't get me wrong, There are a lot of great engineers out there with a lot of knowledge and experience and many are visitors to the boards and BusNuts. We all thank you for your input and thoughts. Even when some ideas turn out badly at least some people are making the effort to pass on knowledge. | ||
| Don/TX
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Hey, come on guys. I did not write the NEC, nor did I ever say your bus has to meet code requirements, just thought some would appreciate knowing what the code says (and it is obvious that many did not know that. Don't shoot the messenger.). There is another sore point, did you know the NEC also prescribes a code for RV parks? You would be surprised how many are wired by electricians, who never bothered to even become aware of the requiremnts. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Jacques Cousteau - never was PADI certified | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
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Thank you, Dave S for the Canadian version. Paragraph 4.4.2 a would certainly preclude locating the distribution panel in the bays as I've seen on many bus conversions. Don, Thank you for pointing this out. In many locations the NEC has been adopted as part of the local law. It's just smart to comply and avoid future hassels with law enforcement or insurance companys. I want the specific section and paragraph to understand the reason behind this requirement, I suspect it has more to do with the type of wire, the cord isn't suitable for use inside partitions or even conduit so it would make sense to require a suitably enclosed transition to a more suitable wire type. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
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Codes are written to protect, for several reasons, cheap installation, lack of knowledge, or just plain lack of common sense, they are there to protect us, they also contain many changes based on new products, and theorys to improve reliablity, safety and a standard for a profit driven industry to meet, again for our protection! It can only improve the system for us, the better it becomes the safer for all! | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
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After I posted that last post, I remembered something i experienced the other day when I was removing the old lead to the chassis distribution panel(battery cable), when I pulled it from the panel in the front, the insulation crumbled in my hand, this is a 20 year old bus, what kind of shape are your battery cables in? Same thing with using extension cords, I know for a fact that the insulation deteriorates on type SO an SJO type insulation in just a couple of years! Just some information that I thought might be helpful! | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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After spending a bloody HOUR trying to find what I just *knew* I'd seen, I can't find what I thought I saw in the NEC Code book, regarding the maximum distance from power supply entrance to the service disconnect. What I did find was NEC 551.46.(E), which JayJay cited earlier. It only references where the power supply enters the vehicle, which must be 18" from the outside wall if on the rear of the vehicle, and within 15' of the rear of the vehicle if on the left (road) side. My interpretation: You can put the power supply entrance on the back o' the bus, within 18" of the left side, or you can put it on the left side o' da bus, within 15' of the left rear corner, for complete NEC compliance. I was damn certain I'd seen that disconnect measurement, but it is elusive this morning. Oh well. If Sean wasn't so busy with his Detroit, (my doomsday scenario) I know he would enlighten us. BTW, a disclaimer for those rabblerousers about being a code wonk: Even though I knew I'd seen the 18" disconnect requirement, mine is 23" from the entrance. So I thought I'd fudged, when maybe it's ok after all!  | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Chuck - Now I'm really confused - when does the power supply not enter the vehicle w/in 18" of the outside wall? Through the roof or basement? Niles | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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OK, Bub. I'll do this one time. To quote, Article 551.46(E): "Location. The point of entrance of a power-supply assembly shall be located within 4.5 m (15 ft) of the rear, on the left (road) side or at the rear, left of the longitudinal center of the vehicle, within 450 mm (18 in.) of the outside wall. Exception No. 1: A recreational vehicle equiped with only a listed flexible drain system or a side-vent drain system shall be permitted to have the electrical point of entrance located on either side, provided the drain(s) for the plumbing system is (are) located on the same side. Exception No. 2: A recreational vehicle shall be permitted to have the electrical point of entrance located more than 4.5 m (15 ft) from the rear. Where this occurs, the distance beyond the 4.5 m (15 ft) dimension shall be added to the cord's minimum length as specified in 551.46(B)." :: SOOO, put it wherever the hell you want to, but you have to add the excepted distance to your minimum cord of 25'. Blaa blaa blaa. I hope you enjoyed reading that as much as I did typing it. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Chuck - thanks - Bub | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
JJ- I have no idea what the hell you're yakkin' about. The "campgrounds" you stated are open to accept travelers during those hours, and once registered, the campers have the ability to come and go 24/7. The Lake Kissimmee park is one of the few that has 50 amp service at near all sites. Primitive? Not really an RV park? Really....? You oughta' confine your comments of "expertise" to what you have actually had experience with. Try slumming with us peons in the Government campgrounds and private parks, instead of your highbrow pals in the $100 a night KOAs. There. PPPFFFBBLAAAAAATTT (Bronx cheer) | ||
| John tng Rating: N/A |
JJ- Oh yeah..... and it's not the shoreline that has to be 18", or 3', or whatever other figure you come up with... It's the distance from the point of entry (where the shoreline connects to the inside RV wiring) to the breakers in the RV. Find me any brand spankin' new motorhome with a shoreline less than 15' long. I dare ya'. (now stop pickin' on me before I get PPd) | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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John, that's not what JJ said. He's seen it, Don's seen it and I've seen it somewhere in the books as Don stated at the beginning, "There is an electrical code that prohibits the power cord from exiting the bus further than 3 feet...from the main fuse box." He ain't talking about a 3' cord. I think you go in circles sometimes and confuse *yourself*. | ||
| Don/TX
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Shucks Chuck, sometimes he even gets ME confused! | ||
| John that newoldguy Rating: N/A |
Chuckie..... (and donnie) Oh come on.... "There is an electrical code that prohibits the power cord from exiting the bus further than 3 feet...from the main fuse box." There isn't a power pole you're going to reach with only a three foot shoreline. Every manufacturer uses at least a 15' cord.... and most are using 20'. And you still need extensions... The explanation that serves common sense better, is the one that suggests the path from the panel to the point of exit and connection to the power cord, does not exceed 3'. It's akin to the power panel in your home not being far from the main electrical entrance. Who's confused here? Me? Or you? | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Chuck, Well, as long as you're gonna ask for me by name, I'll chime in. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what I can add, since I ditched my copy of the NEC when we moved aboard full-time. I'd have to go look in the library. But my own recollection is that there is no specific requirement about how far from the point of entry the main panel can be. I looked at those sections pretty carefully when I did my design, but that was on the '99 (and sometimes '02) code, since that was what was in force when I did it. That being said, I do remember the stipulation about location of point of entry, which you have already quoted. Also, there was a requirement for a minimum length of the shore cord, which was increased for the '02 code, I think from 23' to 25'. They don't want to see the cords stretched too tight. Lastly, since the original post referenced tank drains as well, I will point out that 1192 requires that drains "shall terminate at any point within 16 ft (4.9 m) of the rear, or within 12 in. (304.8 mm) forward of the wheel well, on the left (road) side or at the rear left of the longitudinal center of the vehicle within 18 in. (457.2 mm) of the outside wall, and shall direct its discharge toward that side or toward the rear within an angle of 90 degrees formed between that side and the rear end of the vehicle or vertically downward." It also requires that the valves be manually operated and only operable from outside the vehicle. By the way, I got a ray of hope today on my Detroit -- I'll post it on my blog later. -Sean | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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John the *&^$%#$@: A: Fuse box / main disconnect / (your terminology here) B: Where the cord exits the coach. Distance from A to B is what we're talking about! Distance to the PP has nothing to do with this sub-thread of this thread! Hey, go have another Blue Label on me, ok? | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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Sean, that's *real* good news. NetNewsWire is waiting to grab it! | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Breaker box |-----up to 3' romex-----|connection to the shoreline and exit|----shoreline (any length)---> Is that what you fellas' are trying to say? | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
There ya' go, Chuckie! I knew you could do it. | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
I have a 35' Holiday Rambler MH in the yard with the breaker box located on the inside of the pax side wall about 20 feet from the back. It is connected by romex to a switch/outlet sized box in the left corner of the rear bumper where the shore cord is connected to it. It is factory installed and it has to be about 26 feet to the breaker panel. Maybe someone else has a factory unit they can look at & post their findings. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Addendum to my earlier: Chuck -- you may also be thinking of the code provision relating to vehicle-mounted generators. There is a strict limit on how far the first vehicle-mounted junction box and/or disconnect can be from the generator set itself. This used to be something like 30" or 36", and may have been revised downwards to 18". -Sean | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Jim-bob- I noted the same thing in a previous post, regarding two of the motorhomes we've owned. If the code's changed in recent years, then all this ^%#@% may be accurate. I'd certainly like to have the main breaker at the point of entry, but who wants to go outside in the rain when the breaker trips? And who wants to run inside to trip the breaker if there's a fire? Codes are fine.... They're nice. I love 'em. Everyone should have a few. Right? | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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Yes, this is what the subthread was trying to communicate, altho cornfusingly. Breaker box or main disconnect w/breakers|-----up to 3' -----|connection to the shoreline and exit|----shoreline (BUT, all that was discussing the code that we can't find anyway, so yawn. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Must... Resist... Urge... To... Make... Pornographic... Joke... Out... Of... The... Term... POWER POLE! | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
An early lady friend , when helping get the connection goodies aboard for a sail called the 30a Hubbel Cable , The "POWER HOSE" (which I thought a great name,) Feel free to innovate! FAST FRED | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
The main breaker should never trip. The only reason for it to trip would be a majpr failure in the panel bus bars. The main breaker feeds the bus bars and everything after that is protected by a smaller breaker. If you plan on running total loads greater than the capacity of the main breaker then you have to have a bigger service entrance cable and bigger main breaker. I have never tripped the main breaker in a house or in a converted bus. It is mainly used as a convenient swirch to turn of all the power. | ||
| Don/TX
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Wish I had a NEC. For those looking, it is not a new requirement, in fact I have not looked at a NEC for 6-8 years, but can assure you it WAS there. I think Jim-Bob is confirming this part of the code with the wiring on the Holiday Rambler. My 89 Allegro has an 18 inch run of powercord to the main breaker. Puts the breaker in an awkward space, but is done to meet code and be done cheap I am sure. As stated, I cannot recall if it said main breaker, junction box, or exact wording. | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
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The local Lowes has a copy of the 2002 NEC. I read the section on RV's twice. There is NO requirement for any particular distance from power cord entry to any panel or breaker. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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A lot of factory motorhomes are manufactured under grandfather clauses, thus they may not meet the letter of the law. Hey, Jtng, you're the one that brought up Kissimmee Campground. Go look on their website, it states that it is a basically a primitive site. Brian's original post asked about RV facilities, (not campgrounds) since he was not familiar with the way most of them were wired/plumbed. ...JJ | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Lake Kissimmee park is an RV park and campground, JJ. Have you ever seen tent campers needing 50 amp service? It is called "primitive" thanks to the type of sites provided. It's not a typical KOA with the flaming idiots parked aside each other. Each RV site can well handle a 45 foot coach and a tow vehicle, plus any guest that might visit. Each site has ample room for a few tents, besides all your vehicles. There's tables and BBQs provided also. Each site is so private, that you don't have to pull the shades for privacy. At most all sites, you can't see the RV parked in the next site. Facilities include modern showers, etc. 50 amp electric and water are provided at each site, but you'll have to drive to dump. There's a boat ramp, docks and great places to walk and sit. Do yourself a favor and take a look for yourself. You just might find there's better places to stay than your KOA farm. It is indeed, in every sense of the word, an RV Park. Summary: 123.8 miles (2 hours, 42 minutes) 9:00 AM 0.0 Depart Fort Myers on SR-82 [Martin Luther King Blvd] (West) 131 yds 9:00 AM 0.1 Bear RIGHT (North-West) onto Monroe St 0.1 mi 9:00 AM 0.2 Turn LEFT (South-West) onto Main St 164 yds 9:00 AM 0.3 Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto US-41 [SR-45] 18.5 mi US-41 9:17 AM 18.8 Bear RIGHT (North) onto CR-765A [Taylor Rd] 1.5 mi 9:20 AM 20.3 Turn RIGHT (East) onto CR-768 [Jones Loop Rd] 0.6 mi 9:21 AM 21.0 Turn LEFT (North) onto Local road(s) 10 yds 9:21 AM 21.0 Take Ramp onto I-75 3.1 mi I-75 / Tampa 9:24 AM 24.1 At exit 164, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto US-17 [SR-35] 43.9 mi US-17 / Punta Gorda / Arcadia 10:16 AM 67.9 Turn RIGHT (East) onto SR-64 19.4 mi 10:47 AM 87.3 Turn LEFT (North) onto US-27 [US-98] 6.4 mi 10:53 AM 93.7 Keep RIGHT onto Local road(s) 109 yds 10:54 AM 93.8 Bear RIGHT (North-East) onto US-27 Alt [SR-17] 6.0 mi 11:02 AM 99.8 Turn RIGHT (East) onto CR-630 [E H St] 1.5 mi 11:05 AM 101.3 Keep STRAIGHT onto CR-630 12.8 mi 11:19 AM 114.1 Turn LEFT (West) onto SR-60 2.1 mi 11:22 AM 116.2 Turn RIGHT (East) onto Kissimmee Shores Rd 4.7 mi 11:34 AM 120.9 Bear LEFT (North) onto Local road(s) 2.9 mi 11:42 AM 123.8 Arrive Lake Kissimmee SUMMARY Driving distance: 123.8 miles Trip duration: 2 hours, 42 minutes Driving time: 2 hours, 42 minutes Cost: $9.17 Have fun. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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Aha! "Over-current protection should be provided within 18 inches of where the shore line enters the coach. This is needed to avoid having unprotected wires in the walls. The primary circuit breaker for the shore line should be in the post with the campground's outlet, but one still is needed on the coach's end." "Designing Electrical Layouts for Coach Conversions" by George D. Myers © 1998, Chapter Two > 120/240-VAC > p. 97. OK, I didn't find in the code book, my error. But this will suffice for documentation. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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How do you go 123.8 miles on $9.17 ? | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
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Chuck, I have to disagree with George on this one. Since there is a properly rated breaker on the shore receptacle, there already is protection for the wires running from the point of entry to the distribution panel. I don't even have a "main breaker" when I am using shore power -- the breaker on the pedestal suffices. I only have mains for my genny and my inverter. -Sean | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
Well heck I should have asked you first Sean, because I went to a lot of trouble to satisfy that statement. Oh well, an added safety factor for bogus PP's. PS: Good news about the aftercooler. Ummm, shouldn't you be removing cabinetry about now instead of playing on the net? | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
http://www.parallaxpower.com/ATS/ATS5070_Owner_op_Manual.pdf | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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How do you go 123.8 miles on $9.17 ? 17.69 gallons diesel @ 7 mpg @ 2.39/gal=42.28 not counting the stops and go's. 4.13 gallons gas @ 30 mpg @ 2.17/gal=8.96 So he's getting fantastic mileage or using veggie oil... | ||
| John tng Rating: N/A |
Ahhhhh Jeeeez.... I didn't use the mileage thingo.. It's the default of the program, probably a car.. Man, youse guys are tough! | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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John TNG, you MUST remember that foot-in-mouth-disease will NOT be tolerated on this 'Board. Don't want "flamed" or your ass chewed? Be knowledgeable in what you are posting about, 'cuz these guys never let up on keeping this 'Board as factual and helpful as possible. Ignorance is not bliss, it's curable, (and it'll kill ya' too) and a large part of this 'Board is about our safety and curing ignorance. The people that come here for help (myself included) know that they can rely on good advise without feeling stupid, or being ridiculed. Consequently the repondents herein won't tolerate ignorance or vapidity. Yeah, we're tough, but that's what makes this the best 'Board on the net. ...JJ | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
Yeah yeah yeah... Vapidity.... Really.... yeah! HAR de HAR HAR! Man, JJ... You just hafta' try the gubberment campsites! It'll give ya' some humbilility... HAR!!!! | ||
| Mike (Busone)
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Ignorance is like nuclear energy. It can be used for good or evil and you don't want to get any one you. | ||
| ?John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Mike- You're gonna' love it. Once you start on the bus, there's no stopping! It's a craziness that permeates the brain that the wife just won't understand. It's like having a lover that requires more cash than you can afford, but the lover promises to satisfy the wife along with you... Try to explain that.....! (gosh) (gasp) Have fun, man. Life's too short to care. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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I thought it was a typpppoooo.. All Kidding Included... At least most of the time the sentences are formulated with most of the words. The brain see's one thing while the hands do something completely different. O.T.S. (again) I gave up trying to build square walls and corners because I haven't found a bus yet that is 20 plus years old that has anything squared up. I have measured stuff 50 times, made 5 cuts to perfection and still am 1/8" off no matter what I do. Ahhh.. Cover it with vinyl and nobody will notice.... | ||
| Mike (Busone)
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JTNG, It was late and now that I read the whole thing again what I said does not make sense. I think I saw the word "ignorance" and it reminded of that saying. I was so tired I mis-typed it anyway. The last sentence was supposed to say "and you don't want to get any ON you." It is amazing what a small child can do to your brain. I feel like a zombie by 8:00pm. As far as the bus nut bug it already bit me and laid it's eggs about 2 years ago. It controls my life and my wife does not understand. Whenever we are in the car I point out every bus and if I can I will drive behind it to look and listen. She knows I am nuts. Maybe things will work out this summer and I will finally be able to get one. | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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Gummint campsite? where I have to unhook the power, strap everything down, close the cabinets, and then drive across the park to get in line to dump my tanks? then back to the site and re-hook everything? and then in a few days I get to do it all over again? and that ain't primitive? Sheese! I was at Long Key park and the very nice lady offered to loan me a portable 30 gal. sewer dumping tank so I didn't have to move the bus. (Hmmm, let's see...30 gal X 8 lbs is about 240 lbs. and wheels or not that's a backache in the makin') Humbilility? I done that once! Nah, not me! Let's have a cold one sometime!?!?!...JJ |