| Author | Message | ||
| DebDav (Debdav)
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Anyone have RO water? When considering RO systems, The waste water generated is 3-4 times the pure water supplied. This does not seem like it would lend itself to a conversion and more importantly to boondocking. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Define "RO" please? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
Reverse Osmosis, a type of purification system. | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Rating: N/A |
We have an RO unit and all we do is boondock... When you install return line, send it back to the fresh water tank...it gets recycled again. We've never noticed any degradation in water quality because of this. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Wait...this can recycle the gray tank? Good God, can it recycle the BLACK tank, or is that simply too disgusting for words? We're talking gear like this? http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productI d=200281224&R=200281224&storeId=6970&langId=%2D1&cm_ven=Paid%2520Inclusion&cm_cat=Performi cs&cm_pla=Froogle&cm_ite=Froogle http://www.faucet.com/decor/product.pl?mid=983&fh=Filtration%20System&P&source=froogle http://froogle.tanklesswater.com/product.asp?product=AP-RO5500 http://www.faucetdepot3.com/faucetdepot/ProductDetail.asp?Product=9378&AffiliateID=Froogle Tell me more, guys, this sounds WAY cool! | ||
| DebDav (Debdav)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks Jim, I was considering sending the RO waste back to the fresh tank. I assume that it will not be undrinkable, just less quality than RO filtered. Also, take a look at ebay. Search for 'reverse osmosis'. A $300.00 to $700.00 5-6 stage RO system can be had for under $100.00. Makes 100GPD water clean enough for commercial fish tanks. | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
The reverse osmosis system needs about 100PSI constant water pressure. If you decide to do this, use only plastic pipes for the RO water because it will deteriorate metal piping & joints because it is "mineral hungry". | ||
| DebDav (Debdav)
Rating: N/A |
I am using PVC pipe throughout. I question the statement"mineral hungry". Is this do to the fact that the purified water has no minerals? I have not read this anywhere. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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I have one of the GE units, The water that comes out tastes terrible. My water was already perfect but has some sulphur odor in it and I have the PE filter system and softener on the house. That takes care of most of it but after that water goes through the RO unit it is so mineral starved that it could probably etch glass. I went back to a tap filter and it tastes very good compared to the RO system. I have considered trying the RO unit with straight water unfiltered. Maybe that will work. R.O. Units should not ever be used on water that could contain biological matter in it. You would have to build a series of filters and the super-chlorinators to kill the bacteria. Then filter it again before sending it into the RO unit. As for sending the "flush" water from the RO back into the tank. This is a dangerous and dumb move and I would not suggest that anyone ever do that. If you do then you better have solid carbon filters to filter that stuff before putting in the tank. But Hey, It's your health.. Do what you want. I studied a lot of do's and dont's before I spent the money and still feel like this stuff will never work as advertised. Re-using grey water.. Hmmm.. Maybe filtered for sludge and impurities it might be used for flushing the toilet and watering non-food plants. The reason that you wash your hands is to disinfect them. Where does that go? ( Grey Tank! ) E.Coli, Cryptasporum and many other nasties end up in that holding tank (and grow!)... Sorry.. I just hate the idea of doing something that might make you sick or kill you just to save a few gallons of water. Maybe the $1,000.00 units work better, But that's a lot of bottled water! | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A |
It's something I'd certainly do more research on first! One point: I too did an EBay search on the words "reverse" and "osmosis" and found those "aquarium tank quality water" setups. At least one was more money and had a UV blaster towards the end of the process to kill bacteria. I intend to do more reading on that subject. If it's producing something sterile and close to "dead pure H2O" which tastes like crap, then that's still OK not just for flushing but for clothes washing, showering, dishwashing, etc. Everything BUT drinking, and that can be dealt with via a pair of 5gal "water cooler type jugs" of commercial bottled water or equal quality. *Drinking* isn't a huge percentage of what you use water for. If anything it's the LEAST intensive use... | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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The RO unit does not kill or screen out bacteria. A U.V. Sterilizer unit would help but to do it right you would still have to treat the grey water, filter it and disinfect it before the RO unit could make it safe enough and clean enough to use even for bathing. Here are some theoretical ideas. Utility pump for pumping grey water. Double inline sediment filter. Double inline carbon filter. Flow regulator to slow flow down for maximum exposure to U.V. rays in sterilizer. U.V. Unit with power supply. Secondary water storage tank with enough capacity to handle processed water. (vented).. Ozone Generator unit to induce ozone into water tank to finish killing rest of bacteria and odors. Two stage Pre-filter and finishing carbon filters for processed "cleaned" water. High Pressure Pump and Pressure tank. 50 to 100 psi. R.O. Unit to make relatively safe water and a pressurized storage tank for that water. I figured that this system if designed properly could process urinal water and make it drinkable although NASA has refined the process to an art. The hard part is maintenance and cost of replacing the filter media about 3 times a month and running chlorine through the lines to inhibit unwanted things clogging up stuff. It much easier to process a million gallons of nasty water than it is to build a workable system for 5 to 10 gallons a day. | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
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You guys make me laugh....give me a break. The guy asked for some simple input....does RO work...yes it does......does it purify Blackwater or grey water...give me a break...Jeeze And an RO system will clearify water and make it drinkable....and taste better.... some systems, depending on the filters and bladders/uv light will kill the little bugs.....give me a break do some research. While you're at it do some research on bottled water and how and where it is bottled. Also...an RO unit does NOT need 100 psi to work...does work with an RV pressure pump. And DrDave...we're not talking about recycling Blackwater...we're talking about filtering water from a public supply of potable water...to make it more pleasing...and SAFER. "As for sending the "flush" water from the RO back into the tank. This is a dangerous and dumb move and I would not suggest that anyone ever do that. If you do then you better have solid carbon filters to filter that stuff before putting in the tank. But Hey, It's your health.. Do what you want. Well, sorry you think THIS IS A DANGEROUS AND DUMB MOVE...you're probably one of those people that thinks 'bottled' water is safe. You also don't really know what the process is in an RO unit. "I studied a lot of do's and dont's before I spent the money and still feel like this stuff will never work as advertised."" You studied...do's and don'ts....you still spent the money...?? | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Where do you camp? - We're not in Africa - most (if not all you'll come across) fresh water supplies meet all the requirements of potable water sources - if not, don't fill up - if your that freaked out as the previous posts indicate, buy a case of bottled water (in most cases the same quality as tap water) - Niles | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Hey, this was the first I've heard of this stuff, I just wanted more info. Trust me, I *know* what's in gray water (let's not even start on black!) and wouldn't "go there" without some hardcore research. Any info on the subject HERE would be just a starting point...I'm not dumb enough to trust my health to webforum posts (sorry all, no slur intended...). | ||
| Pat Bartlett (Muddog16)
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Waster water management is a full time and 24/7 type of endeavour, to many bugs for me to mess with, Dave your right you can buy a heck of a lot of bottled water | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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Sorry Jim, I know what a PEM membrane is and how R.O. works. Some are better than others. I only tried to condense and explain a little of what I have read on the subject. I even know what an S-50/S-100 Bus computer is. I used to read about them in Popular Electronics, I had one in the 80's to look at. That doesn't stop me from reading about a lot of stuff and offering to try to explain stuff. The part about running the discharge water back into the supply tank is correct. Otherwise why would the PEM designers rather dump it than integrate it into the flow. It consist's of all the "bad" stuff that won't fit through the membrane which is what you are trying to get rid of. Zero-Point-Energy Scenario.... I give up. | ||
| T. (Bluegrass)
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I bet Drdave has ocean front property in Arizona If anyone Is Interested. Tony | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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 Wish I did! I live in the swamp called Florida. Plenty of water but just not drinkable nowdays without some serious treatment it seems. The coastal cities are pumping all of our water out and leaving our wells turning sour or sulphurous if not dry. And then they are pumping treated sewage water back into the ground. My brother-in-law finally had to retire from The State EPA because his job was driving him nuts and he had his time in anyway. His big thing was the Everglades. | ||
| DMDave Rating: N/A |
Arent these also used to remove salinity from sea water? The units im thinking of work well but the membrane has to be reversed flushed periodically and especially when left idle. Water is nice tasting. They eliminate having to tote lots of heavy fresh water on long distance traveling boats. Think they work on a high pressure principal to squeeze out the impurities/salt. | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
The Aquarium in Chicago uses the Reverse Osmosis system for cleaning out the water used in the fish tanks. The membrane will (filter) the particals out and is discharged to waste. Not a biological filter. I was told that for drinking water, you need a carbon filter to take the "edge" off after running through the Rev Os machine. For bugs, you need an ultra violet light filter. I have used a distiller which removes 99.8% of particulate/mercury/lead/etc and kills the bugs. It simply turns the water to steam and recondenses it back in a potable container. It too needs a carbon filter to take the edge off the water taste but does not require the UV light filter. Homes have used the Rev Os filters for many years and would work in a conversion. The difference in a conversion is they must have the same precautions as a water tank where temperature extremes are concerned. If you freeze it, you break it!!! Theres no magic, no hype about the Rev Os system. It simply forces water through a membrane which holds back the contamination particles, then washes the particles away, keeping the pure water. If you want to recycle your black water, talk to NASA. Frankly, I'll pass on the idea. Good subject, interesting responses. cd | ||
| john wood Rating: N/A |
RO water makes the very best coffee 'n tea!!! And sure, the "brine" from the RO unit could go back into the fresh tank........... just a little more concentrated, but not at all noticeable if you are using fresh water anywhere else..like showering etc.as you will need a fill long before you change the quality in the tank. I have the GE unit. Works jes fine on 40-50 psi. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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So for the record let's ask a question: does anyone here successfully recycle their gray tank? With ANY technology? Has anyone even seen or read about such a setup? | ||
| RO user Rating: N/A |
Bugs as you call them come in sizes. If the bugs are 2 microns in size and your filtering thru a 1 micron filter the bugs above 1 micron in size will be removed. (this doesnt endorse the greywater Idea ewww just a fact of filtering tho it could be done but difficult in a portable unit ) I have a Hand unit that makes water drinkable without any uv treatment or a silver iodide filter Works fine.I have put lots of brown stream, puddle and river water thru it and it comes out clear and sweet. I also have a hand operated ro unit, works slowly but works well.. A trick to make water taste better is to decant into container 1/2 full and shake vigorously to reoxygenate the water, most low micron filters remove most of the oxygen and thats what makes it taste flat and dull. According to my literature will remove fallout from water too as long as particulate is above certain micron size(my guess is it works so is true but reality would leave you with contaminated filters) A proper ro system($3000.00+) installed for a sail boat uses 100+psi to force the water thru the membranes. Not using it enough can ruin the membranes(not even close to cheap)and they don't like cold water, 80 suits them fine so they don't work well in alaska unless theres a modification I dont know of short of preheating the water. I have helped install a few of these on mine and friends boats. Nice units for what they are for (making umpteen gallons a day to keep tanks full) but expensive toys for non boat use, there are many other far cheaper ways to filter water from a potable water supply. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
does anyone here successfully recycle their gray tank? With ANY technology? The nuke submarines might , but with so much clean sea water they probably just RO to drink and flash evaporate for really ckean water. Even the space station brings up water at $10,000 a POUND . The grey tank contains as many (perhaps more ) bacteria and pathogens as black water. A bigger FW tank or learning FW dicipline would be far less risky. FAST FRED | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Recycling RV waste water..... wow. Talk about the ultimate affluent yuppie-hobbyist expenditure... "Just like NASA"? (HAR) Which all proves that there are "Bus Nuts" and "Nuts that just happen to own buses"... After reading this thread about five (5) times, it seems to me, that the poster asking the question wasn't thinking about recycling the filthy water from any filthy waste tank..... But just sending the RO water back into the fresh tank. And Jim and Myrna covered that just fine: "Don't do it" My Bro-in-law has an RO system in his home. He swears that makes the water taste better. I don't drink their water, but their coffee still doesn't taste any better than the kerosene in his garage.... We always used bottled water in both our house and RV. We don't like the taste of fluoridation and other additives, and bottled water for drinking is only 50-60 cents per gallon. One gallon lasts us about 3-4 days usually, and sometimes longer. The price of a filtration system, the maintenance of it, the filters and the lack of total filtration of what could possibly harm you, are the reasons we stuck to bottled water for drinking. Our fresh water tank is for showers, dishes, etc.. Building a system to use waste/drain water for drinking? Man.... youse guys are sumptin' else. | ||
| Mike (Busone)
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Maybe somebody could build a steam distillation unit with waste engine heat. I just could not get used to the idea of used water though. I will stick with the bottled water. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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Learning is why we're here. No problem. I know I can do OK with 100gal of conventional-source fresh and 100gal of waste tanks total and expanding those numbers would be WAY cheaper (and less energy intensive) than the huge distillation system needed to recycle. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
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The only water problem that I have is the one that my cardiologist keeps after me about. He jokingly said once that I must be part camel, How else could I store an extra 28 lbs of water in my body that isn't supposed to be there. My rig has tanks for 196 gallons of Fresh water, 105 grey and 80 black. Got them new surplus from former Vogue motorhome manufacturer warehouse clean out a couple of years ago. Then had to buy the bus to convert that they would fit in. I know.. It's off the subject again, But without the "2D" affair going anywhere it's getting very boring around here. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Yeah.... Hey, don't get me wrong... I love these off-track and off-the-beaten-path threads.. That's one of the reasons I@n's forum is as great as it is! You have to be able to think out of the box, if you're going to know how swell it really is to stay -inside the box-! (HAR!!) Really.... Exploring all the possibilities and impossibilities does us all well. I've learned a ton over the years I've been reading here, both things that I should do, and things that I shouldn't bother attempting. Now that I'm in the middle of the mess, I'm finding out that what I retained after reading here, is saving me time and cash. Learning through other's mistakes not only helps you, it allows the botcher-upper to know his pain wasn't in vain.. Wow..... I'm saving time and cash -and- being a philanthropist. See. You botcher-uppers made me a better person! Gracias; mucho' gracias. (can I flush now honey, or is the ice cube tray full?) | ||
| john wood Rating: N/A |
Hey Newguy; I recommend swearing off on the kerosene from yer bro's garage! Ye'll live longer. |