| Author | Message | ||
| dan Rating: |
what all do I have to do to change the freon in my bus from R12 to 134,someone told me that all i had to do was change the oil in the compressor is this true? I thought id better ask the pro's Thanks Dan | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
R134 prices has now gone tilt, You may want to look at something like HC12, You don't have to change anything but the gas. Works better than 12 or 134a... R134 is now a highly taxed item and the price for a 1 lb can at autozone is alomost $11 now. It is near it's marketing end game thanks to the EPA.. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Here's one idea.. http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Here's another one.. http://www.foxtoolsupply.com/HC-12a.htm | ||
| Randy Steere Rating: N/A |
Dan 134a hit the roof because 1 of the 4 producers opted not to manufacture it any more. They gave little notice to the industry so reserves were not built up. Check with the spec sheet on any freon you add. Type of oil in the system is very important. One thing they don't tell you about blends are you cannot top a system off. You have to pump the whole system down and recharge. My opinion is avoid them at all costs. Busses hold 16 lbs of freon easy. Randy | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Obviously people don't go read the directions on converting to "hydrocarbon" refrigerants. Yes you have to pump the system down to clear out the old stuff and moisture, Not a big deal. Hydrocarbon refrigerants are compatable with all compressor oils,seals and lines. No changes there! The only thing you need is the 134a fittings. You need much less refrigerant with the hydrocarbons than you need with R12 or R134 because the molecule size is larger, This also reduces leaks and lowers pressures and horsepower needed to provide effectively MORE cooling for less refrigerant. R134a was the do-all stop gap replacement for R12 when it was scheduled to be banned. R134a is now scheduled to be banned also. "fluorocarbon" refrigerants are pretty much all being scheduled to be phased out thanks to "EPA and GREENies", This means the non./low-impact refrigerants will be replacing them. | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
I used enviro-safe which is another hydrocarbon refrigerant. can be found at http://www.es-refrigerants.com/ | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
A note of caution in the use of HC-12 products. They generally contain volatile and flamable gases as the replacement element of the flouro-carbon. This is not new chemical science, being at least 50 yrs. old in practice in the refrigeration industry. For many yrs. a long time ago, many refrigeration mechanics were known to "make their own blends" to squeeze just a touch more effect from a system. That is one of the causes behind federal law that prohibits it (well hell, I only added a couple of pounds of butane, no damn reason for the whole building to go boom). HFC blends were the immediate answer to the non-availability of R-12 but have since been displaced by "safer" products. There are literally thousands of documented cases of fires and explosions of HFC products in refrigeration systems . If the system is small, such as a car, probably not a lot of danger, although it is documented to contribute. As the refrigerant content increases, so does the danger, and thus, a bus with 15-20# of refrigerant, containing as much as 45% volatile gas, may well present as a potential disaster. Just imagine the damage and potential for injury of one of your 7.5# propane tanks exploding from heat in a combustible atmosphere ! Anyone that does not take this into consideration when changing out their system is, IMHO, not qualified to do the job. | ||
| LABryan Rating: N/A |
James is right. There were a series of posts on the Prevost board last year by a guy who changed to the flamable product. At first he was really pleased with the cooling and how much money he saved over the $7k Prevost quotes for changing R12 to 134a. But within a month he had a major compressor failure which ignited the refrigerant in the engine compartment while underway. Bus was totaled and passengers were lucky to escape unharmed. And if I remember correctly, this was just a driver air system (like a car a/c system) and not full bus air. | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
I carry 50 gallons of propane for heating and cooking and am not worried about a couple of pounds in my ac system. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
That's fine Gary, you're certainly not alone in using it. However, the 50 gallon in your propane tank is not piped into a hot engine compartment, not subjected to circulation in hoses that are notorious for developing leaks, and not subjected to critical components that sometimes produce heat of friction well above the flash point of propane. However, I also know people that pipe propane into their engine, and I would have to concede that that is an even more risky practice. Given the known risks involved, I'll pay that little extra for the non-volatile mainstream stuff. With a little shopping, I can buy 134a for less than most places sell the HFC's. 4 months ago I bought 134a for $3.12/# at Sam's. I didn't see any HFC for less than $10/# at the time. | ||
| john wood Rating: N/A |
At minimum you will need to change the oil, TXV and the dryer. Also access ports as mentioned should be made to conform to the 134a convention. Did mine and works great. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
Might be worth a trip to Mexico. F12 is about $125 for a 30# can. Same as the Bahamas , our source. FAST FRED | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
It is on the "high watch" list for Customs and can result in smuggling charges (and the resulting costs). Proceed at your own risk! | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
How would they know if you system was low on freon when you entered Mexico and was full when you came back. Or do you mean if they catch you with a tank of it? | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Maybe I am confused, But people keep referring to HCFC134 as if it is different than R134 , Sorry It's not, It's the same definition. R-12 CFC-12 dichlorodifluoromethane R-22 HCFC-22 chlorodifluoromethane R-134a HFC-134a 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane Sounds like some confusion as to where the letters definition for Hydrocarbon based refigerants are getting mixed up with HCF-134a .. I think the discussion centered around the alternatives to R12 and R134a. Which are real hydrocarbon based refrigerants such as OZ-12 and Envirosafe and do not contain the poisons that R12 and R134 contain. But are flammable, Maybe more so than the "R" refrigerants or maybe not. On the other hand, The alternatives decompose into heat and carbon dioxide. The "R" refrigerants decompose into chlorines,acids and phosgene gas. The foots on the other shoe now...  | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Not a tank, just a 12oz. can. To put the foot in the proper shoe, the flourocarbons do not support combustion, but true, produce phosgene when introduced to flame, which is artificial decomposition. Absent an induced flame, they do not decompose into phosgene. There is no "maybe" to the increased flammability of HFC refrigerants. Incidentally, there are a couple of HFC replacements available that do not contain volatile components. They were on the market well before the flourocarbons were put on the hit list and they are expensive. | ||
| T. (Bluegrass)
Rating: N/A |
when I bought my eagle I remember spacificily there was a sign on It that said use R500 only I have never heard of this but I heard that It was inexpencive | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Hello coolnuts. I did the conversion to R-134 on my MC8 a few years ago. 30lbs of R12 had reached $1200 at the time, and the bus needs 26. R-134 was only $200 then. MCI kit had all the hoses, o-rings, new dryer, fittings, R-134 stickers, whatever, and the service bulletin. You need enough new oil to fill it twice, once to help flush out the old oil, once to fill for good. All the R-12 replacment coctails that were being pedaled at that time have proven to be less than satisfactory, installing R-12 is illegal here now, so I'm still content that I converted. What liability might you hold for filling the AC with a flammable gas and then there's some sort of calamity? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Bluegrass: R500 is what is known as an azeotropic refrigerant, a blend of 2 or more other refrigerants. Originally patented by Carrier Corp. as a replacement for R12 designed to add approx. 20% added capacity to a system due to different characteristics of the refrigerant. It is 74% R-12. It's primary drawback was absorbtion of moisture, making it difficult to remove moisture that got into systems. Being a Carrier patented product, it was expensive (It is now illegal). You can replace it in your system w/ 134a, following the same process as indicated for replacing R-12. You would experience approx. 22-23% reduction of system cooling capacity, all equipment remaining the same. A change of expansion valve superheat setting would be highly recommended, given the vast difference in latent heat of vaporization of R500 and R134a., which is a measure of a refrigerants capacity to absorb heat. Just for info., R502 is a Carrier azeotrope for R-22. |
