| Author | Message | ||
| John that newguy Rating: |
I'd like to use the original escape hatches to mount the roof air upon, since the hatch seems to seal well. Has anyone accomplished this feat that can share some info before I commence chopping? | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh)
Rating: N/A |
Been there, done that. Remove all traces of the hatch and build a frame that will have the 14x14 opening and weld that to the roof structure. You will probably have to run a couple of pieces from the roof bows in front and in back of the hatch opening for support. Cover the excess opening with .062 aluminum using butyl caulking in the seam. Did that 14 years ago and no problems with it. Or the roof a/c for that matter. Jim | ||
| bruce king
Rating: N/A |
I chose to preserve the roof escape hatch and function, just cut a hole through the roof on the driver side of the roof peak. The reason for the offset is that AC units sweat, and I wanted the water to run off on the drivers side, so that awnings and stuff on the passenger side would have less of the condensation on them. In my mci 9, an air shear easily cut the inner and outer roof, a wood frame constructed of pressure treated wood seperated the two roof sections from one another, and the bolts of the AC unit itself made for a tight, secure fit. Took maybe 30 minutes per unit to cut the holes, construct the frame, insert the frame, and then seal and bolt on the AC unit. 12000 miles and 3 years later, things are just fine. if your bus goes sideways the windows above your head are going to be 8' up. The back probably isn't an exit, and the front may not be a choice either. You sure you want to take out an emergency exit? | ||
| NewbeeMC9 Rating: N/A |
I bought my bus with the AC units in the Hatch, I wish I had them for emergency access as Bruce said or for access to make a sun/veiwing deck. I would also prefer them in a duct that distributed the length of the bus NewbeeMC9 | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
I could be reading this wrong, but I think JtNG means he wants to install the roof ACs thru the hatch *lid*, cutting a hole thru the lid itself. Izzat what you mean, JtIH? | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
Yuppers, Chuck!! (and Jim-) I hate to cut holes in the roof, and since that hatch seals so well, I'd much prefer to use it rather than pop-rivet aluminum to a already sealed roof. If it's at all possible, that is... Bruce- My floor plan for the back 40 won't fare well with an offset A/C unit. I hate to use overhead AC units to begin with, but the price is right... If I can mount them in a way I can get rid of them later without a problem, I'd prefer to do it that way... Good thoughts about it to consider, tho!! Thanks. NewbeeMC9 - I'm not too concerned about emergency exiting thru the roof. I don't remember ever reading about any terrible bus accidents where passengers had to exit that way. It's possible, of course, but man... If I flipped the bus over on it's side, I do not think I'm gonna' be able to get up and out of any exit by myself. (As an aside.... I plan to use Peninsula Glass's windows designed for the MCI frames, to keep the emergency exit functioning of the frames usable.) | ||
| Jason Whitaker (Jeepme)
Rating: N/A |
If I was in the bus in the video posted here a few days ago flipping onto its side I think I'd want a roof exit! Crawling from the back thru the front windshield couldn't have been much fun. I'd love to have an emergency roof exit and use it to access a sun deck but I haven't seen one yet (deck that is) that I thought would look good on a 4104. The roof is just too rounded. Jason Whitaker 4104 | ||
| Jason Whitaker (Jeepme)
Rating: N/A |
How close is your planned roof mount to the driver? I'm going to mount my front a/c as far forward as I can to get that cold air blowing down my neck. Of course if you're retaining the original bus air you're set anyway. Jason Whitaker 4104 | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Jason- Ugh! Yeah, 100 mi with cold air on the neck is an improvement to a hit on the noggin with a ball peened hammer.. (funny!) Actually, I'm planning on tieing my Welch auxiliary AC system into the driver's air.. Most RVs have the front AC units at about the same proximity as where the escape hatch is, in the MCI series.. Some neck aches and back aches and other discomforts..... I'd prefer a ducted system via the basement.... But I may get two roof units for next to nothing... And I'd like to Keep It Simple... | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
Go ahead and use the emergency hatches. for an exit, you can install a boat hatch or two. The glass will let in much needed light and can be opened for escape. The hatch locks operate much easier than the bus stock emerg hatch, so much so your little grandma can open them with little trouble. Just the option of the extra light is a great plus for the boat hatch addition. cd | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh)
Rating: N/A |
Obviously you can't use the original latch to keep the hatch closed. What then? Screw down through the hatch into the roof? It would be a lot better to do as I suggested. MCI and Prevost both use butyl caulking on their seams and they are either pop riveted (prevost) or buck riveted (mci) Drains are available for the Dometic a/c's so water doesn't drip off the roof. Drains are only good for ducted a/c's if you are going that route. Like I said, I've never had a leak with butyl caulking. Jim | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Jim- I'm a believer in butyl as well. I've used the white butyl to seal between overlaps of both fiberglass and aluminum with great success.. Everything shrinks and swells; elasticity is a good thing in a sealant. I always have a few tubes around.. I had been hoping to make the installation of roof airs reversible. If I want to change to a basement ducted system, all I would need are new hatch doors.. You mentioned "been there; done that".. What were the problems you found when you tried to use the hatch door? Is it a total waste of time, or would you try it again, but using a different approach? | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
JTNG, I have "temporararily" installed a roof air in the escape hatch on our Eagle. I would not recommend this for anyone. As I cut the 14" hole in the hatch I discovered that these hatches are just about strong enough to hold themselves together. For one thing, they are not fiberglass, they are molded ABS (or something). They are hollow, so you'll have to figure out how to reinforce the sides of the 14" hole. (I used 2 x 2s.) The center part is hollow, and the top & bottom parts are sandwiched together at the edges where they sit on the opening. When you sit the AC on top of the plastic hatch, it sags in the center. Next, you have to figure out how to keep the hatch closed, because as others have mentioned, the factory latch is not strong enough. You also have to build some kind of block to hold up the AC unit's butt where it projects to the rear. Normally this sits on the RV roof, but the hatch rim stands up a couple of inches. So I am not going to mount the second unit this way and I am looking for a replacement hatch. I think most of these are the same as I have seen the same hatch on other models. If you end up changing the AC units to basement air, just put a couple of Fantasic Fans in the spot where the roof airs come out. Chances are that where you'd put the AC is a good spot for a roof vent too. Corey, you live in the North. Here in Florida, we don't want any skylights to allow massive heat so the glass boat hatches are not popular. We like shade. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Jim-Bob- Yeah man... Shade! Thanks for that info. I was assuming the MCI hatch cover was heavy gauge aluminum with a plastic interior shell. I thought mine had rivets on the top surface. But then... I had first thought the interior was aluminum, until I looked closer. I'll have to get up on the roof and take a better look. If the MCI hatch is as thin as the Eagle's hatch, I won't bother experimenting further. Your experience will save me time. Thanks! The general consensus is to frame the hatch opening to a 14" square and plate it over with aluminum. I'll have to bolt the frame in, for lack of a welder and experience using one. Good idea too, to make use of the holes with fans! We can never have enough fans down here! Ok.... one other question for the roof mounters? How did you quiet the AC unit down? The vibration and rumble from most roof air units is terrible. Is there a way to quiet it; to dampen the noise? | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Vibration and Rumble? Not unless there is something wrong with the unit; maybe old, compressor or fan rubber mounts deteriorated, fan out of balance. Like everyone with non-ducted units, I get inside velocity noise from the fan, never hear the compressor. From outside, I have to concentrate on listening to hear my units running on the roof; Carrier HC models. Aside from the mounts within the unit, these things sit on a very heavy and dense gasket on the roof. Properly framed, you should not get vibration or rumble if the unit itself is sound. | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh)
Rating: N/A |
JTNG- Roof airs are noisier than basement Cruise-airs. I am willing to put up with them while they are on full blast cooling the coach, but once cooled, the fans drop to low speed and cycle on and off as needed to keep cool. Low speed isn't bad. Quite tolerable with the TV or radio on. The other reason I like roof a/c is that I can't store anything else on the roof. I can store a lot of stuff in a bay. I pulled 2 Cruise-airs out of my current conversion and installed roof airs. Where the Cruise-airs were, I now have 2 full size mountain bikes, 2 non-folding chaise lounges, 4 folding chairs and still have 1/3 of the bay left open for a whole lot of other stuff. Works for me. As to the BTDT, I just meant I used the hatch hole for the a/c, not the cover. Jim PS- I sold the 2 used Cruise-airs and bought 3 new roof airs with the same money. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
James- Both the stick 'n staples we owned had terrible AC noise. It sounded like the units were mounted on a bass drum... Ugh. But of cuz, it was a S 'n S, not a well built bus body.. I'm wondering if it would make it quieter if the frame is made out of wood, rather than metal... the wood absorbing more shock..? The Carrier units are nice. We were looking at the new slim line models that stick up at about 8" over the roof. Expensive, tho.. I hope to have a couple of new (but used) units available to me shortly. I hate to carbuncle the roof line, but free or cheap beats aesthetics for the glamour of it.. Money's money; it's getting harder to keep it, lately. Jim- I feel the same way about bay space. Why use it all for the maintenance items, when you can use the roof. I'm planning to put all the services into the rear bay and leave both front bays open for storage. It's another reason I gave into roof airs.. Thanks for the input! | ||
| david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A |
I'm with JimBob on this. Those hatches I removed from my Eagle were very lightly constructed. It was just too easy to block and weld that hole to 14"x14" and lay some aluminum skin over it. Also, it will get the "warts" about 2" lower on the roof if you remove the hatch. I am at 4 years now and no leaks. As for the condensate, some manufacturers offer a drip pan with a routed hose if you're are still in the unwalled stage of your conversion. That's not practical if you are already converted. I use my levelers to slightly tilt my coach to make my condensate drip off the driver's side. Works for me. Good luck. David Anderson 1985 Houston Metro Eagle 10 | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Rating: N/A |
John, Check the archives. Several months ago the "framing the hatch" issue came up. Some perferred wood, some steel. The wood advocates (2x4's as I recall) said they had less vibration than the steel designs. One or two steel guys said the wood would rot in time. I'm with you on the welding/fabricating issue. I'm going to use laquered wood for the frame and get some metal sheet that matches roof type to cover the rest of the hatch area. Let us know how it comes out. Chuck Newman Oroville, CA | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Here in Florida we just let the water run everywhere but inside. There is so much stuff that already grows on the roofs here that a couple of extra green slimey streaks to keep the lizards hydrated are worth the fun of watching the jurassic park lizard antics. You know it's bad when you have to use a lawn sprayer to shoot pool shock chrlorine and algecide on your roof to get it clean. It's either hot and humid or pouring down rain daily or it's hot, dry and just miserable. The weather here sucks for the natives but the vacationers love it. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
I could name a few vacationers, including myself, that also think it sucks, and especially in the Summer. But then, what do I know, since it regularly gets to 115 where I live (I'm sure you've already heard that line of BS abt. it being dry though.) | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
The April before we moved one-way to Floriduh, I shoveled four (4) foot of snow from our Massachusetts home's roof. I welcome the heat, hot air, and sun. I begin work on the bus at 6am and stop at 11am or so... But to the people thinking of moving here? Roaches as big as cats. More heat than your oven puts out. Rain, rain, rain. Drought, drought, drought. High prices. High taxes. Mosquitoes. Alligators in your backyard eating your dog. High crime rate. Traffic. Right of citizens to shoot first; ask questions later. Abundance of sexual preditors: http://www.sheriff.co.brevard.fl.us/ Trailor trash. Hurricanes. Yeah, it's better to move to Arizona. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Ohhh. Fudge!!!! Taxes... You have to be kidding... We don't have a City or State Income tax here. Uh..Crime Rate.. Well that's a subjective matter. Considering the population vs given area. We hear about it more because the news people have nothing to do. Sure there are places worse than others, But there's a lot of places that its still relatively safe to leave the door unlocked, Not that I would recommend it, But it happens. Traffic, Yeah in places. Most of that is either vacationers or Northerners who come down here and clog up our narrow little roads designed in the 30's with their big fat attitudes. (just kidding). The biggest thing that ticks me off is that people from other states move here and try to impose their high pressure tactics and screwed up view of how a place should be run based on what area they came from. aka: New York Attitudes for instance. People come here and impose their changes on us and then complain when it bites them back. And when they get tired of what they started they go home. ( aka: The Spanish Marauders ) The Indians kicked their butts, Maybe the Florida Rednecks should apply some good old "Real" southern charm. Oh. Don't get me started on the Island Trash that has invaded. There's your crime rate. We imported that too... We didn't have road rage until some idiots imported it from up north. We just had running gun battles on the dirt roads between warring families.. Oh, Those were the days.. I grew up around here and aligators, rattlesnakes and all the other little venomous creatures left me alone if I left them alone. Our B-52 Bomber mosquitos were not bad by themselves, But when the Asian Tiger mosquitos got imported the game plan changed. Now you can't hear them as they are in stealth mode. The old mosquitos you could hear coming 10 feet away! We have a native Texan for Governor, Native New Yorkers for City and County government and people that think it's OK to build houses 10 feet apart and build 180 unit apartment complexes on 3 acres of confined space. No wonder there's a crime spree, People need lots of space to live and breath. Jamming them up on top of each other just fuels anxiety and crime. Yes, I am just another ***hole who is fed up with outside people telling me what I can or can't do. | ||
| C Fred
Rating: N/A |
If you want to live in Gods country then come to North Florida or South Ga. The people are real frendly and there are more churches than people. I am a native Fla.I had to get out off the area were all the people from the north came to make it like were they came from. I love North Fla we have four season and no real cold weather . About 12 days a year that will get to 32 or a little below. And the natives are great. No crime. just good living. Fred | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
I am 20 miles due west of Daytona and it is nice where I am at most of the time. Little noisey during bike week but that works for me. The droning turboprop sounds of Skydive Deland is sometimes annoying during the daytime and the POP noise from the chutes will get your attention but otherwise its nice here. | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
As soon as we get on our feet we are looking to move somewhere in the south. I cannot stand the cookie cutter houses all cramed togther here in the Denver area. My wife likes to have a real garden. Water restrictions also make that hard. Anybody have anything good or bad to say about Arkansas, Nebraska, or Texas? Our biggest thing is to find cheap houses/land. The average house price in the Denver area is something like $220,000. I am looking for $50,000 average price range. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
JOHN - back to the topic, I looked at my hatch covers and by golly I think you might be on to something. On the MC9, they are NOT plastic, (the top half) it's aluminum about 1/16" thick or so but I don't know anything about metal gauges.  You can do chinups on the hole, it's so strong. (That's assuming one can do chinups at all.  ) You know, whatta ya got to lose? I figure separate the halves, Rivet a 1" angle around the 14" hole in the cover for extra bracing, add some 2x wood frame around that if necessary, seal the rivets, and figure out a way to bolt/screw it shut. Heck you could do all this as quick and easy experiment and you would have only spent 1/2 day, and absolutely NOTHING LOST if it doesn't work out for some reason. You COULD even do all the above and power it with an extension cord temporarily to just get comfortable with it working ok. If it doesn't work out for some reason, remove the hatch and begin as you would have anyway. Flaws in the thought? Disclaimer: I have never installed a roof A/C before so this is strictly backyard musing. AND keep in mind the moniker you have on more than one occasion ascribed to me. (RG)  | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Chuck- I looked at it today.... You're right. I stood up on top of the cover and bounced on it. It hardly moved! I've got nothing to lose by trying it. I sat there measuring the opening and realized that if I'm going to take the cover off anyway... what the hell.. There's no reason I can't frame the opening and do it the customary way either, if it doesn't work out. It'll raise the AC up by about 1". I guess they're different than the hatches on the Eagles. The roof airs are going to be needed soon... it's been in the high 80s during the day. And yeah.... they'll be running on an extension cord.. Hey Chuck..... There's a lil' Rube in all of us! I've been called "the Master of the cobb-job". I am a certified screw-up; I got papers. Tks. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
Thought this was interesting: (going off topic again) --------------------------------- A recreational vehicle service business in central Florida has increased its slate of repair work while upping its marketing efforts to deal with a shrinking customer base, according to The Reporter. "We had to reinvent ourselves," said Rob Cochran, owner of the Camping Connection in Four Corners which he opened in 1996. "We're trying to be creative and innovative." Camping Connection had relied on a concentration of campgrounds in the area to bring in business. But the number of RV parks has been dwindling lately with the pressures of development and growth pushing them out to make room for condominiums and vacation homes. "We've lost seven campgrounds in the last two years," Cochran said. That number accounted for nearly a quarter of the 29 campgrounds Cochran said were within 20 miles of his business when it opened. In one case, what once had been a KOA campground on U.S. 192 is now a Sam's Club super store. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
From the $60 per night KOA to a free-bee from WalMart without ever having to move.. No-one's "pushing them out", they're selling because they like the sound of $$$$.. and it's easier to sell, than to make the improvements that the new luxury RVrs demand. Thankfully for us, there are State, Federal and County campgrounds that are still inexpensive and provide us with safe, comfortable places to stay with our beat up old buses with their roof-top airs.... (hee hee) | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
State, Federal and County campgrounds are being overrun with long term "guests" ( mainly poor Canadians). Who fill the places ALL winer by simply mooving every 14 days , to the NEXT state campground . Most can make site specific reservations at least 6 months in advance , so hop from favorite spot to favorite spot. Nice for them ,and legal, but HELL for the tourist that just needs a nite or week in Natures Wonderland. There was talk of only holding reservations for 50% of the park , the rest being first in line service. Don't know the outcome,yet. FAST FRED | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
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Pesky part-time Canadians... Send 'em all home, we've got the other half of their taxes waiting for them to spend their money on up here! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Jim-bob- I may have a replacement hatch for you. I decided to listen to the wisdom of this board, and do it the conventional way. I just picked up two 24x30 sheets of .09 aluminum ($75 - ouch). (I should've picked up those fallen road signs down here, last hurricane) I will commence framing this weekend, if time and weather allows. Let me know if you still want a hatch... It's a Freebee.. I don't know what the shipping would be, tho.. And.... (to all others) That hatch would be fine to use for mounting a fan, but the AC unit would hang too far off the ends. Without proper support, the entire cooling unit would suffer the stress of movement and vibration. So.... Thank you all, for your kind and generous input! | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
I am looking for a complete hatch and frame work what it the hatch off and is it still servicable? If jim bob dont want I would like know more about it. Brian 4905 Oregon? | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
I'll have two hatches soon (I hope). I'll keep you posted. Since I haven't drilled out the rivets yet, I don't know if I'll be leaving the framework in and using it to build the 14x14 inside it, or not. The hatch wouldn't be much good to anyone without the frame... If the upper lip of the assembly is separate from the frame, I would have that to go with the door... I'm really hoping to get this done this weekend... But... things have had a way of going wrong lately.. Rain, appointments, etc.. (I'm near Melbourne, Fl., btw). If yourn innerested, stay tuna'd.. I hate to toss anything out if someone may need it. | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Rating: N/A |
JTNG, Email me for information about a bus rally at Wyckham (sp?) Park near Melbourne in September. Jack |
