| Author |
Message |
califbob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 1:28 am: | |
Was talking to some guys this week. They said they use distilled water in their engine. Does that make since? |
Craig (Ceieio)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 1:46 am: | |
I have heard of this in the past. The story as I recall it was that distilled water cuts down on electrolysis in wet sleeved engines.
I don't know one way or another about the validity of the idea.
Craig - MC7 |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 5:19 am: | |
Distilled water cuts down on the corrosion and pluging of every part connected in the coolant system.
Required on almost every new car ,
it makes great sense as , where can you purchase good insurance for 65c a gallon?
Do the 2 part flush (as required every 2-3 years) and refill with fresh DIESEL antifreez and distilled water , and you stop the clock on the cooling system.
Works for me,the engine does NOT overheat when the engine can carry the grade , without RPM decay.
FAST FRED |
Glenn MC-9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 6:18 am: | |
Hi Craig,
Our singing group is running a 1984 MC-9 with a 6V92. When we bought her, the guy said he had been using distilled water ever since he owned it.
NOTE: This engine is also equipped with a coolant filter.
So I've continued to use the distilled water not only in the cooling system but also in the batteries.
Glenn |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:02 am: | |
Definitely use distilled water for the cooling system and batteries. Reverse Osmosis water works fine too, that's what I've used forever, as long as you KNOW that your RO filters are in good condition.
City tap water has too many unknown minerals and chemicals in it, and if you put the stuff in your engine or battery, you're giving those chemicals "forever" to eat, clog, deposit themselves on the innards of your precious machine. And they will...
Goes for your body too... tap water these days is the worst stuff to drink, and can give you lots of problems, kidney stones being one of them... |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:40 am: | |
Yeah no crap, you should see what the fluoride did to my teeth. Dental fluorosis is a nasty thing. |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 2:54 pm: | |
I own 18 vehicles, most of them antiques, including large diesel trucks and fire trucks. I always used to use rain water in my radiators until I read an article by an anti-freeze company, don't remember which one. It said that said any water mixed with anti-freeze needs some impurities so the a-f can have something to hang onto to make it evenly distributed. Seems the a-f never chemically mixes with the water but is a mechanical mix. In other words the a-f will settle to the bottom of a water/a-f mix if left alone. Even before being mixed with water the a-f label says to shake well before mixing.
Makes sense to me so I use tap water now. Every service station or garage I ever saw uses tap water and I would guess that 99% of the vehicles in the world use tap water. I just try to avoid water with a lot of lime or iron in it.
I have never known of flouride doing any damage to anything or anyone. I'm 75 years old and still have all my teeth, I give flouride treated water most of the credit for this and any dentist will tell you the same thing. |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 4:38 pm: | |
Sorry, gusc,
You were mis-informed. Simple brownian motion, once there is an adequate mixing, takes care of the distribution. The "shake before using" advice is to reduce initial viscosity issues. Purposeful contamination is a mechanics equivalent to snipe hunts and the like.
10° DT is found in any cooling system and is enough to precipitate minerals. It's best to keep them out.
I agree with you about the Flouride, but there's a few communities, one in Florida, IIRC, that has such a high concentration of natural flouride that it will stain/mottle the teeth. |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 5:37 pm: | |
Marc,
As usual your post is written in the language of academia and I can't understand any of it except the last paragraph. I'm too lazy to dig out the dictionary and encyclopedia to understand your posts.
What are you saying in plain English? You may be right but I can't understand it. Maybe I'm the only one with this problem, if so I apologize.
As I said, the article was written by(Or quoted)an a-f company representative, just sorry I didn't keep it. |
Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 5:52 pm: | |
The problem with tap water is the minerals-- my bus had a mixure of tap water and antifreeze and developed calcium deposits right at the lowest point-- the intake line to my Webasto water pump. I had to take the pump apart and chip out all the deposits so it would work again. After that I drained the system and put distilled water and fresh antifreeze, no more problems. |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 8:36 pm: | |
Sorry Gus,
I used terms learned in High School. From what I've seen, since you're about 20 years older than I, you probably got a better education from your high school than I did. Recent experience helping at CSUF leads me to believe the decline has continued. The freshmen college students I dealt with would have been equal to what I estimate my freshman class possessed.
Brownian motion is the random motion of molecules in a gas or liquid, like cigarette smoke in air, a fart in church or a drop of ink in water.
The antifreeze is like syrup as compared to water. Until you shake it up, the "stickyness" will prevent mixing, but once mixed it rarely settles out.
Putting crap in the water with the intent to improve the mixing is junk science. Don't do it or you'll end up like Geoff.
10°DT is high school chemistry for "ten degrees change in temperature".
I'm informed by an industrial water expert that minerals like calcium in water solution at 200 degrees, when cooled to 190 degrees, [10°DT ] the drop in temperature will hasten the minerals to fall out of solution - as witnessed by Geoff.
If you still find the explanation insufficient, please say so. It's all about providing info! |
gillig-dan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 8:44 am: | |
That's scary,
I almost understood that Marc. Musta been the fart in the church analogy (that means a comparison). Of course, the real brownian comes with a wet fart.
I'm still looking for my delta key on the keyboard though.
Gillig-Dan |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 9:11 am: | |
Gillig-dan
Go to formatting tab in the left column.
left slash, "greek", left {, letter D, right }, will give you the greek delta.
Probably wouldn't posted but for the opportunity to try the degree symbol and greek delta character
I didn't understand brownian motion to be limited to liquids. Gases, although more highly mobile or motile, are treated as liquids for most purposes until you reach compressibility issues. Clear me up on this point, IYW.
Marc |
gillig-dan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 10:37 am: | |
Yes, when that brownian motion starts to churn in your gut and pressures exceed controlable limits, expected gasious states may turn liquid and may mix at a molecular level with your white "Sunday go to meetin'" trousers. In other words, my point above was an attempt at dry (or wet) humor.
(why can't I help myself and not post this stuff?)
Gillig-Dan |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 12:31 pm: | |
gillig-dan,
One of the immutable rules of life!
Never stand between a man and his humor!
It's almost as dangerous as standing between him and his beer, race car, hunt'n dog or gal (not necessarily in that order!)
One consolation - nobody accuses you of being a pomp-ass academic even when you ain't.
(Gosh, the high price one pays for a life time of curiosity complicated by the ability to read!) LOL! |
Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 3:41 pm: | |
Marc,
It's the same problem with the Mass-Centroid-Axis explanation I was avoiding...
Tim
(I wonder what effects an "air straightener" would have on Gillig-Dan's Brownian mixing with "post gastrous Taco-Bell" against the linen trousers, I see a research grant here!) -T |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 4:04 pm: | |
Slightly off color for the weak at stomach.
Speaking of Taco-Bell how about this experience at Ryan's steakhouse.
http://www.nvrha.com/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=251
Richard |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 4:44 pm: | |
Tim,
Ever the optimist, hope springs eternal . . . |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 11:27 pm: | |
Well, I went to a pretty good high school in Arkansas but I really don't know what you guys are talking about. It must be interesting.
What does CSUF mean and what is Delta Greek? |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:18 am: | |
gusc,
CSUF = California State University Fullerton
I assisted a professor in a critical thinking class. I brought a new perspective which the professor decided deserved exposure on a National level at an education conference We made presentations at two national conferences. Made enough of an impression to garner an invitation to an International conference. Conflicts interfered we didn't make a presentation there and I dropped the activity when I moved back to Northern California.
The neat part about it is I've won every fight I've been in since by two to three paragraphs! Davey Crockett could grin 'em to death, I just talk 'em to death - LOL!
That experience and a $1.50 will get me coffee at a restaurant (if I'm lucky).
The Greek "delta" is often compared to the English "D" and is shaped like a triangle, frequently depicted with the base bolded.
When you see "DT" it means the temperature differential or difference.
A frequently used symbol in science, like chemistry, engineering and physics. |
Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 1:50 am: | |
ROFL Richard! Poor guy. Bob |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 9:56 am: | |
If u can't blind them with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit |
Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 3:38 pm: | |
H2O a binary compound that occurs at room temperature as a clear colorless odorless tasteless liquid. OR
Atomic number 1, atomic number 8, bath water, bilge, bilge water, binary compound, body of water, brine, dewdrop, diamond dust, dishwater, distilled water, drinking water, flake, fresh water, frost mist, frost snow, ground water, H, hard water, holy water, hydrogen, ice, ice crystal, ice needle, limewater, liquid, meltwater, O, oxygen, perspiration, poudrin, saltwater, seawater, slush, snow mist, snowflake, soft water, spring water, sudor, sweat, tap water, tear, teardrop, water ice, water of crystallisation, water of crystallization, water of hydration, well water.
If you examine the effective Z of heterogeneous mixtures of H2O I think I would use distilled water.
Distilled water: water that has been purified by distillation (boiling the water off as steam and condensing it back to a liquid, leaving the impurities behind). Having been boiled, it is also sterile.
Brian 4905 Oregon |
George Myers
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 9:04 pm: | |
Detroit, Cummins, and Cat all give a list of chemicals that are very bad for engines if they are in the water used with the antifreeze. The list includes calcium and chlorine. Distilled or purified water is the only practical way I know to get water that does not have at least one of these. |
Timothy Terhune (Timnvt)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:37 pm: | |
Is water collected by use of a dehumidifyer essentially the same as distilled water?
Thanks,
Timnvt |
R Johnstone (Chilebrew)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 3:38 pm: | |
That part of the condensate which is WATER is; unfortunately, you have collected dust paticles and whatever else is floating around the air.
Would need extensive filtration to make it "pure."
Easier to buy distilled water. |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 8:37 pm: | |
Wow, Brian, I think you just outdid Marc. Anyway, you two guys sure know a lot of stuff, a lot more than the rest of us can ever hope to know.
The only distilled water I have seen for sale is in retail stores in gallon jugs for steam irons. Do truck stops and gas stations sell it?
From what I have read here I think I will go back to rain water (Even though you left it out, Brian!)
Since probably 99% of engine coolant water in the US is tap water I can only wonder if this is really a problem? |
Glenn MC-9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 9:32 pm: | |
I just bought 3 gallons of distilled water from Wallet-Mart last night for $.58 a gallon.
I don't think you can much cheaper insurance than that.
Glenn
MC-9 |
Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:48 pm: | |
Gusc,
Rain water has the same problem as the water collected by a humidifier (water droplets form on particles suspended in the air - aka. dust). Better idea to stock up before you go out for a spin...
-T |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:12 am: | |
Tim - Rainwater is WORSE than any water because it contains chemicals that are AIR-BORN in the polluted atmosphere - You'd be better off with well water or mountain runofff - with no pollutants - distilled water is a bargain comparison to all the rest -
Niles |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 7:48 am: | |
Niles,
I'm not sure of how to interpret your "with no pollutants" phrase. Did you mean to say that well water and mountain runoff typically have no pollutants or you have to find such sources with no pollutants?
If the latter, what method do you use to determine whether the mountain runof or well water lacks pollutants? |
Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 1:01 pm: | |
Indeed,
The last time I went hiking, I saw a cow taking a leak in the steam. I can't thing of any worse thing to put in an engine than ammonia laden cow pee.
Further I was merely pointing out that "Rainwater = BAD". You may refer to my conversation with JTNG at the bottom of this post regarding what I think about rain water.
I'd want Glenn in my caravan if I was traveling. He has the right idea about where to get the water...
Cheers,
Tim |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 2:29 pm: | |
Marc - I should'a said "inoraganic" pollutants -
Well water or Aquiferian water (groundwater) is highly/multi-filtered water - although it is likely that Well water contains water soluble minerals acquired during the natural filtration process, if it meets Potable water standards it is probably not going to be corrosive to your mill or "sealed" cooling system - that doesn't mean there won't be some mineral deposits that need to be flushed from the system - but its a far cry from introducing corrosives into your systems such as chlorine or fluorine (tap water)-
Mountain runoff (above the tree line) is mostly free of organic and inorganic pollutants, partly because the air at that elevation contains the least number of particulates and partly because temperately (excluding minor inversions) and atmospherically, heightened elevations with colder climates are insusceptible to manufactured and natural pollutants - Remember the Coors commercials?
Like the rest I use distilled water unless an emergency occurs - if so I'll use the above before I'd use tap/treated water- YMMV -
Niles |