| Author | Message | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
1980 Eagle 10. On my ongoing quest to see if I have too much slop in my steering, I have a few questions. With bus off, steering wheel turns 1/4 turn with no resistance, then resistance. I looked at the steering shaft into the gear, and the whole shaft turns. Nothing looks loose. How do I diagnose this and not screw anything up? Thanks | ||
| Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A |
I am not sure which PS version you have…either external slave cylinder or integral PS steering box. Quarter turn is nearly typical for slave version. But if it integral type, then you have badly worn tie rod ends and etc. It an first old engineering ways of adding a “booster cylinder slave” to help steering instead of Integral type. Remember in order for old booster slave to respond is extra movement (after ratio) between pitman arm link to booster. Valve-ing at beginning of old booster slave cylinder is determining the amount of “so-call 2 inch or more play at steering wheel” thru end of gear-box reduction movement of 1/8 inch. So after everything is adjusted to specification you will have about 2 inch steering wheel play. It came that way from factory. If you ever driven pre 70’s cars with old slave-cylinder power steering, you will notice loose steering until “Integral” design power steering box was replace. Integral has an internal rotary valve and booster-cylinder at in-put shaft before reduction (before ratio) ratio. Result of no play at steering wheel other then pitman gear to rack gear (piston) adjustment. Another word, piston is direct over “worm” input shaft to power boost movement of sector (pitman) shaft. Shown on page 2 http://trucksteering.trwauto.com/files/HFB64-Intro.pdf Disassembly http://trucksteering.trwauto.com/files/HFB64-Dis.pdf A whole new comfort of driving. So replace if not already equip with Integral gear box is the best improvement made in your bus. For what it’s worth. Sojourn for Christ, Jerry | ||
| Phil Dumpster2 Rating: N/A |
There should be provisions on the steering gear to adjust the preload. If the input shaft turns but you don't see any movement at the pittman arm, then the box either needs adjustment or needs to be rebuilt or replaced. A quarter turn of play is downright annoying. | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the link. That is exactly what I have after taking a good look, the integral steering box. I'm going to read the manual and look at where to possibly adjust or diagnose. Thanks | ||
| david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A |
jjrsmp, You have the same box I have in my Eagle 10. As I posted to you on an earlier thread I had no improvement after spending $800 getting the box rebuilt by BAB steering. Most of my problem was in the rod ends and kingpins and wheel assembly brackets. If you come up empty on tinkering with the gear box, I still recommend you have the front end looked at by a truck alignment shop before pulling out the gear box. It is heavyyyyy. David Anderson | ||
| Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A |
Now we know you have integral box, do the following with out engine running; 1) Jack up left front wheel with safety block under strong point. 2) Remove that tire & rim assembly 3) Move hub fore & aft to look for play in tie rod ends 4) Or someone turn steering wheel back & forth freely between binds. 5) Look for worn tie-rod end in all movement points. 6) Bottom-line it should be no play in sight. 7) If pitman’s arm not rotate while freely turning steering wheel back & forth then sector shaft adjusting screw & nut is loosen or need readjust as per manual or if it leaking oil from seals then need to or get rebuild. FWIW Sojourn for Christ, Jerry. | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the replies. This board is great. I am getting more familiar with the steering gear more and more. Now when I start the bus, I stood outside the window and turned the steering wheel while looking at the tires. It only takes about 1 inch of steering wheel travel before the wheel starts moving. I guess the 1/4 wheel play is only if the pump is not running.....Anyways, I found the preload as well as sector adjustment screws. The preload looks to be as tight as it can go. Does loosening the preload screw make you need to move the steering wheel more before the wheels will turn? I'm thinking my steering is too responsive? I might be interpreting the responsiveness with slop? Geesh | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Quit while you're ahead, man. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
too responsive?....If you mean you need to constantly correct the wheel while driving, you can have the front axle adjusted for a little more positive caster,which will lessen the tendency to wander. Increasing the pos. caster will increase the steering effort slightly even with power steering. | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
Well, I took the girl out for a 1 hour jaunt to check the steering. The steering is tight. I think the issue after all this time is that if tracking straight, if I move the steering wheel slightly to left or right, and release the wheel , the wheel seems like it comes back to center, but it's like the steering keeps tracking the way I turned the wheel. Does that make sense? On gradual turns, it's not a factor because I'm keeping the wheel turned, it only occurs when going straight. Does too tight a preload adjustment make it so that the gears don't easily go back to center? Thanks | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Hmmm... (Jtng's .02) "the wheel seems like it comes back to center, but it's like the steering keeps tracking the way I turned the wheel" Unless you steer it into the direction? Sounds like worn idler/pitman arm bushings... | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
The steering wheel returns to center, but the steering seems to track in the direction the wheel was previously turned.... | ||
| david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A |
I agree with John. David Anderson | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
jjrsmp12 - You can ask around, but if you change lanes and find yourself having to "steer back" to get it to go where you wanted, the pitman arm bushings would be what I would be looking at first.. But hell man, I ain't no mechanic.. You oughta' bring it into a bus garage for a complete inspection like I did. I'll send you my cryin' towel... it's a lil' damp yet, tho.. | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the input. I've got the manual and will take a look at the bushings. Didn't see a pitman arm bushing on the exploded steering gear box diagram though. Any suggestions? Other than taking it to a truck shop like John that newguy suggested? lol | ||
| Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A |
JTNG "I'll send you my cryin' towel... it's a lil' damp yet, tho.." Very funny...but is that the truth! If Eagle come with idler arm, then it another point to look at. It either tight & dry or worn to wandering. Or anywhere else in suspension system can be dry of lube to cause stiffness. Look for no-lube or dry point in king-pin, tie-rods as well. Unless you’re able to do heavy knowledgeable suspension work. I take it to bus charter’s recommend front end alignment shop. They will tell you your need while looking poor to keep cost down. FWIW Sojourn for Christ, Jerry | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
I hear ya. I spent $1300 a while back to have the torsion bars adjusted to proper ride height. One bar looked like it had never been adjusted. Anyways, bars are all used up now; hopefully the ride height will stay for a decade  | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
Well, i got under the bus while the wife turned the wheels(after jacking the front end up). Should the outer tie rods(I believe that is what they are) wiggle? Also, the steering linkage from wheel to wheel I can twist with my hand. Twists about 1 inch total. Didn't know if they should do that or not. Thanks | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Twist is OK; lateral movement is not. I don't know if Eagle is like GM in the tie rod ends, but ours uses wedge shaped wear surfaces with a spring pushing against the ball so there is no lateral motion until the tie rod end is worn out. The GM ones came rebuildable by replacing the wear parts. Not easy to find anymore. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| jjrsmp12 Rating: N/A |
What's the correct way to adjust for positive caster? I'm thinking I will try this 1st. Thanks | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
Adding positive caster tilts the bottom of the kingpins forward and the top of the kingpins to the rear. This can be done by using shims at the axle beam...usually only a couple of degrees is added. Truck alignment shops are set up to do this. Also some coaches have an adjustable strut rod to do this. Above the axle on GM.There are specifications for every coach for the correct amount, although a little extra can help reduce wandering.As you add + caster, it does increase steering effort a little, even with power steering. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
You need to figure a way to(safely) check the steering components with the coach tires resting on solid ground. With no weight on them, you will miss seeing most of the play unless a part is really worn.Especially check any u-joints of any shafts connecting the steering wheel to the steering box.The caster adjustment should be checked/ adjusted only after everything else passes inspection or is corrected. Once you get these components right, they should seldom need repaired again in your lifetime if lubricated/greased regularly. By the way, buy the best grease you can get and get a lube chart for your coach if you don't already have one. There are a lot of fittings you will miss if you don't know where they all are. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
IIRC, my 80 Eagle did not have any caster adjustment. It was built into the system and non adjustable. That would probably be one of the last things to try and change until you actually determine what the problem really is. Richard |