| Author |
Message |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 5:27 am: | |
For fun ,
my desire would be a good custom SS 10 gal hot water heater with GREAT insulation..
It would have 4 screw in threads for elements.
2 would be for normal 1500W-240v , so at the big new campsites hot water would be almost as plentifull as for the Bosch , Paloma folks.
3rd would be used for a 500w element , so it could be ON , even when using other goodies in a 15A old campground.
The 4th would be a 50W 12V (from the alt energy folks) that could keep hot water hot on long rides.
There would be a coil (marine HW heater style) for a liquid cooled genset.
A coil for a hydronic supply from a Hurricane or similar furnace ,
and a really large diameter coil to operate a diesel propulsion engine thru.
I prefer the redundancy of NOT hooking everything up in one system that could cause a non movable failure.
Hey SANTA , you listning!
FAST FRED |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 7:26 am: | |
Any estimate on cost of this marvel? |
t gojenola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 3:58 pm: | |
With 4 lectric elements and three exchanger coils stuffed in there, are you certain there would be any room left for the water?
tg |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 7:55 pm: | |
Make it straight DC. We can always provide that under basically all circumstances. |
Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 9:40 pm: | |
Hmmmm Not as hard as you think FRED -
with only 2 1500watt 240 volt heating elements
the following water heating possiblities exist:
3000watts = (2 in parallel @ 240 volts a/c)
1500watts = (1 @ 240 volts a/c)
750watts = (2 in series @ 240 volts)
750watts = (2 in parallel @120 volts a/c)
375watts = (1 @120 volts a/c)
187watss = (2 in series @120 volts)
30watts = (2 in parallel @ 24volts dc)
15watts = (1 @ 24 volts dc)
7.5watts= (2 in series @ 24 volts dc)
15watts = (2 in parallel @ 12 volts)
7.5watts= (2 in series @ 12 volts)
3.7watts= (2 in series @ 12 volts)
Guess you old navy guys are not very good @ math
Pete RTS/Daytona |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 11:53 pm: | |
Tony,
I think the capacity rating should be on internal volume, not external size,
With all the goodies, the external dimensions would have to be larger.
I will note, however, that 100 gal standard WH vs 100 gal High recovery (83,000 BTU vs 212,000 BTUs ) both use the same external pressure vessel but the high capacity has more transfer tubes for the combustion gasses, so the net volume is less, while the recovery rate is much greater. |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 11:55 pm: | |
P.S., I tried posting this morning that I'd add a cleanout to the bottom to permit removal of the precipitate. |
TomNPat
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 2:48 am: | |
Fast Fred,
Your posts are always so refreshing and thought provoking. Thanks for providing them and don't die before I do!!!
TomNPat |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 5:46 am: | |
"Your posts are always so refreshing and thought provoking. Thanks for providing them and don't die before I do!!! "
Hope not!!
I just hit 63 and am looking foward to decades of having the Government robbing children of their retirement funds , and sending them to me!
To keep the hassle of dieing from antifreez poisoning to a minimum ,
I would envision all the water coils to be external to the inner FW tank. Welding would provide some heat transfer , and all the water heating is "free" so a loss of efficency would not be a hassle.
"with only 2 1500watt 240 volt heating elements
the following water heating possiblities exist:"
Sounds like an engineer , great math USELESS output.
2-120v 1500 eliments together for Unlimited() almost) hot water
A single would still take 1500W so be Useless if anything else were needed at a 15A site , that's why the 500W is desired.
The DC is just to keep the water warm for 12 hours , if the fine insulation needs help, or water was used while underway.
Who is gona Mfg. it??And at what cost?
FAST FRED |
Jim Bob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 9:25 am: | |
Fred,
Why not mount a propane RV water heater below the electric unit. Plumb the system to thermo-siphon. The propane gets fired up on your 15 amp sites or when not using the noisemaker in Wal Mart sites. The RV unit would cycle once or twice more per hour as the water circulated. |
Chris
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 1:14 pm: | |
Pete's point was, if I may, that by cleverly rewiring the existing 2 1500W 240V elements you can have a wide variety of configurations. This could be accomplished with relays and a control panel, in fact it could be automatic. When 50A 240V is present, you have 3000W, (2 in parallel at 240V) then when 30A 120V is present, you have 375W (1 element at 120V), and when no AC is present you have 30W (2 in parallel at 24V).
No need for 4 elements when 2 can do the job. Now that is thinking outside the tank. Hardly useless info I'd say. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 3:15 pm: | |
Definitely the way to go. The heating elements do not care whether they have AC or DC power. A relatively easy relay logic circuit would give much more than was asked for at a lower cost.
All additional that would be needed would be either a coil around the tank, or a submersible heat exchanger inside the tank to do everything asked for.
Excellent thinking Pete, and an excellent plan. Maybe too complex for some to understand however. LOL
Richard |
David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 4:41 pm: | |
Ok, Neat..
Figure out what a 1500 watt 120 volt element (or two) would operate at if fed 12 volts.
Resistance is futile..... |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 5:03 pm: | |
150 watts each. Two in parallel 300 watts. Two in series 75 watts.
Resistance is not really futile. I calculate that the internal resistance of a 1500 watt, 120 volt heating element would be 9.6 ohms.
Amperage at 120 volts would be 12.5 amps.
Richard |
Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 6:04 pm: | |
If I need info - I call 114
Pete |
Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 6:08 pm: | |
Richard
sorry but a 1500watt / 120 volt heating element running @ 12 volts dc:
30watts = (2 in parallel @ 12volts dc)
15watts = (1 @ 12 volts dc)
7.5watts= (2 in series @ 12 volts dc)
Pete RTS/Daytona
One very dyslexic Computer Engineer
If I need information I always call 114 |
Jtng
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 6:34 pm: | |
114
I had to read that a cpl times, bufffor I unnerstood.
tihs yzarc...
FF-
So wazzamatta with the conventional RV water heater, readily
available.... that uses propane, and 110v... and has a water
coupling for the engine coolant to heat the contents while the
engine's running? A simple valved re-routing could enable the
webasto, or any device (like solar), to heat the jacket as well..
Heating with 12v is futile; mind as well use coal. |
David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 9:13 pm: | |
Why not just add a semi-sealed burn box and use firewood. Use copper tubing to pick the heat out of the burn box for hot water. Use the smoke and exhaust heat for your handy dandy smoker.
We got plenty of firewood here in Florida and most of it is free.. Lots of Oak and Orange Wood.
Stoke a log, Take a shower and cook dinner.
Soke two logs and have a steam sauna...
Hahahaaaa..... |
Jtng
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 9:21 pm: | |
"We got plenty of firewood here in Florida and most of
it is free.. Lots of Oak and Orange Wood. "
That's aside from the tons of walls, roofs, flooring, and fencing
from last season.... |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 11:59 pm: | |
Do you really think that you are going to get any reall heat from all those configurations? Maybe a 240 volt element on 120 volts, but I doubt there will be anything but a current drain on 24 and 12 volts running through a 120 volt coil. You could have a coil with a tap for each voltage and wattage, and have the effect in a single coil. That would take the non imersible type coil that goes into a tube in the heater. There is also a type of heater that used to be used where the coil was fastened around the outside of the tank. Maybe a manufacturer could make us a submersible element that had the taps already built in for several wattages. There is probably no need to use 240 volts on a small water heater, though. If 240 volts is available, 1500 watts on one 120 volt leg would be a small load, so why bother with 240 volts at all? |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 5:42 am: | |
The concept is that with the extrodaniry complexity of 4 element hubs welded in , one has a seamless system with out
("This could be accomplished with relays and a control panel, in fact it could be automatic.")
more electric garbage to purchase , install & troubleshoot.
KISS works for me.
Although the simple Granger relay
(posted as "Living better in a Dump")
is really EZ to use to cycle an air cond and a std cheapo house HW heater, in limited juice places.
FAST FRED |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 7:40 am: | |
OK Pete, you got me. Don't know what I was thinking last night.
Richard |