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Mark Murray (Mark4104) (128.104.17.148)

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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 3:33 pm:   

The throttle linkage on my 4104 freezes up when the temp. is under 20 degrees Fahrenheit(?). My coach has a DD 6-71, with stick shift. I have sprayed the cable with silicone spray etc. No luck. I have been thinking of installing an air throttle, or an electric throttle. Does any one have a source, a list of ;part numbers, or any other suggestions? Is there a downside to installing an air or an electric throttle? Also/and or has anyone retrofitted a 4104 with an electric throttle? I appreciate your advice! Thanks, Mark
Chuck Harris PD4104 (66.44.21.174)

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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 5:37 pm:   

Mark,

The cable is 35 feet long. The only way to clean it properly is to remove it from the tube, and wash it down in kerosene (diesel, ...) The tube should have solvent run thru it, and a rag wad dragged thru it a few times.

Da Book (Tm Fast Fred) calls for: AC-640, or ST-640 lube made by AC Spark plug company. Since da book was written in the 1950's, I would imagine that a substitution is now necessary. The lube should be a light weight silicone grease. The cable must be wiped down with this grease as it is being inserted back into the cable tube.

The main point here is the system was designed to work under all conditions found in the US. It will work for you too.... If you service it properly.

-Chuck
Ted Calvert (Chowbus) (205.188.196.26)

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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 10:39 pm:   

Amen to all that. It worked when it was built so a little maintenance should fix it. But I'd sure like an air throttle. My right leg gets tired.

A couple of years ago I removed my throttle cable & did as recommended by Chuck, minus the rag. It's only 1/4 or 5/16 tubing, but I flushed it with K-1 with a pump. Lubed the cable with Lubriplate(tm), worked fine for a while but now it's a little stiff. Guess I should repeat & try a different lube.

Ted.
Jim-Bob (205.188.192.44)

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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 11:44 pm:   

Mark, Chuck & fred are right on. It needs proper maintenance. Mine was so stiff when I got the bus that I couldn't get full throttle and it stuck open sometimes. (Imagine a new bus driver with a stuck throttle!)

An air throttle is ok for automatic where you just floor it, but you need the fine control of the cable throttle for best results with the non synchro stick.

Take the center core oof the cable right out. Get another if it's frayed. If it's ok, clean it and the outer casing thoroughly. The casing is actually brass tubing in 3' sections. Look for problems in thelast two sections at the engine. My last piece was worn through and the grease was actually turned to carbon from the heat & years. Grease well as youreassemble, adjust by the the book. Mine has worked GREAT now for two years, no sign of getting stiff again.

Ted, you need to add cruise control. I just installed a Rostra unit I got from Steve Sanford. He was very helpful with the application information. The factory has no clue about putting their unit in a bus but Steve has done a bunch. The unit works great. My bus used to creep up faster or slower with a steady throttle but with the cruise it stays right on the money. It handles hills like the typical Interstate overpass but on taller hills you have to override it going up because of the low power of the 6-71. NO MORE TIRED LEG! On our last trip I put in more than one 12 hour driving day. What a pleasure to have cruise.
Jim-Bob
MLeibelt (216.145.145.128)

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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 1:40 am:   

I've lubed the cables using "Mouse Milk"...It's some stuff we have been using on airplanes for years to lube the cables...We take a end off, put a rubber hose and clamp over the outer cable casing, a air chuck on the other end of the hose, fill with Mouse Milk and add about 40-50# of dry air pressure and work the cable...Just did it on my MC9 and feels like new...and last for 5-7 years on a aircraft...I'll let ya know how it lasts on the bus...

Oh...Bye the way we ran almost 2 quarts into the cable...
califbob (209.162.49.209)

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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 2:25 am:   

I put an air throttle on my 04 several years ago. Simple to install and works great.
I dont understand why jim bob thinks you need to "floor it". You don't jam your breaks on every time you use em. works the same way. Many of my Calif Western Bus Nut friends use them

Gary Knickerson at Coach Sevices sells them. He was in Paso Rolbels CA but has moved to Havasu City don't know his phone number or address I'm sure someone on the line does.
calfbob
FAST FRED (63.215.235.82)

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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 5:16 am:   

Stick shifts and air throttles dont mix.

Remove the old cable and spray in a can of PB Blaster, let soak O,nite and do some more.

Soak the inner in PB or diesel .

Blow the tubing with air till really empty

{A rinse with diesel wont cost much},

then use Teflon grease to coat cable as you put it back together.

Should work OK for another 25 years.

FAST FRED
mel 4104 (208.181.100.78)

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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 11:37 am:   

hi mark,stick shift and air throttles do mix even in a 4104 mine has been in for 8 years and no trouble or fooling around with it,people that like the mess of pulling the worn and fried cables out and replacing the outer casing just do not like change as all our heavy trucks and buses now have airthrottlles and if installed properly there is no difficulty in shifting,and that is easy to do if you want more information I will supply it Mel 4104
Mark Murray (Mark4104) (128.104.17.148)

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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 1:37 pm:   

Thank you all for the feedback and advice! That not withstanding, Mel I would like to take you up on your offer for "more information."
Mark4104
Jim-Bob (205.188.198.169)

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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 3:14 pm:   

This is a reply for Califbob. I have a manual throttle/stick shift 4104 and an air throttle/automatic 4905. When I throttle up the 4905 in Neutral, the throttle is fairly responsive but kind of mushy. When in Drive, I end up giving it about 1/2 throttle to get it going. I have also watched many bus drivers including the professional driver I bought the 4905 from just floor the throttle away from the light.
When I throttle up the cable pedal in the '04, I can adjust it within a few RPMs. This is especially needed when I am downshifting or when I am upshifting at a slower road speed than the regular shift points. At those speeds it is not "against the governor" and you have to bring the revs up or down just a little to get it into the next gear. Plus, I like manual things that give LOTS of warning before they break. Everything that you modernize, computerize, electrify etc on these old manual dogs makes them less reliable. (This includes automatic transmissions!) I try to Keep It Simple S______.
How often do you hear a guy with stick shift & standard injectors complaining about overheating?

Jim-Bob
Greg Warren (208.6.28.8)

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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 9:57 am:   

I replaced my '04-1575's frozen throttle cable with stainless steel cable & sheath/fittings that I purchased a a Harley Davidson dealer. Four years ago it was $60. I "snaked" it across the left front wheel well from the access compartment under the driver. Encased it in rubber hose thru the wheel well. "Snaked" it thru the luggage compartments using the hose as gromments and "eyelet" typt ty-wraps. Rubber hosed it across the rear wheel well and bulkhead. Works great!! And NO maintenance being stainless steel. I did graphite coat it as I fed the cable into the sheath.
califbob (199.174.221.158)

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Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 2:21 am:   

Jim Bob

My 1953 4104 Vin #348 has every bell and whistle on it that I can find, except an automatic trans.. To me that's the fun of building these things. Spent my intire life in the trucking buss. So love to tinker with old stuff. Don't have to worry about making a living with it. Was adriver for years coast to coast. Still love to get out there a have fun after spending the last 25 yearsbehind a desk doing trucking stuff.

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