| Author |
Message |
gillig-dan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 3:38 pm: | |
Just picked up my first tank of bio-diesel today. I paid $2.75, which included $.41 for road tax. After purchasing it I drove 3 miles home and noticed no black smoke, even though my engine was not up to full temperature; that's a change. The cetane rating is 54, which should make the engine run smoother. I plan to take it on a 400 mile round trip this weekend. I'll post back to give my opinion of the stuff.
Right now, my tank has 1/3 petro and 2/3 bio (B100). I was told I may have filter plugging issues for the first couple tanks because the bio-diesel makes a good solvent. I'll carry an extra couple filters with me. Another point is that I may have to change the rubber portions of my fuel lines if they are attacked by the bio-diesel.
An interesting note is that I can buy the same product $.41 cheaper if I have it dispensed into 55 gallon drums for my home heating system. I haven't check my local price for fuel oil yet but, last year, it was only a few cents cheaper than pump diesel. Home heating oil is dyed red to show it's untaxed, Bio-diesel isn't (yet).
Gillig-Dan
'70 Gillig 636D
Cat 1160 rebuilt to a 3208 |
DMDave
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 7:12 pm: | |
Hey Dan, where do you live? Bio seems unavailable in the North East. Thanks, Dave |
Peg
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 3:12 am: | |
Where's the best place to get info about this, and does a diesel vehice need to change anything other than the aforementioned hoses and filters? |
gillig-dan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 12:57 pm: | |
I live in West Point, VA. (pop.3500, no military academy here  ), just outside Richmond. A couple months ago, Pres. Bush came to visit the Virginia Bio-diesel plant for a photo op. I never even knew it was there. It's not a whole lot bigger than a micro brewery (something near and dear to my heart) but they are now expanding to double the output. I hope it works out well for me, my engine seems to be running very smoothly right now. I'm heading for Nags Head in about an hour and we'll see how it performs.
Bio-diesel, unlike burning vegetable oil, does not require any modifications. I have read that a slight timing adjustment can help to optimize the ignition though.
This website, along with many others, has great information about bio-diesel. Check Biodiesel.org for starters.
Gillig-Dan |
Dale MC8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 1:43 pm: | |
In my checking on alternate fuels some of the things I've come across are things like the suggestion that both WVO [waste vegetable oil] and SVO [straight vegetable oil] be treated as a fuel additive if you are questioned. There is no road tax on additives, like STP. Both WVO and SVO should burn without modification, [I'll know more about this in a couple weeks as I am taking a one-day workshop in Hopland CA on this subject.] This suggests that in a pinch, you should be able to go to your local Restaurant Supply store and get cooking oil [Wesson?] and dump it in your tank cheaper than a trip to the service station. Another website is <greasel.com>
A book about both biodiesel and vegetable oil as fuel is 'From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank'
My interest in this process is to help the environment and in the process help my pocketbook. A win-win situation in my opinion.
Dale MC8 |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 1:48 pm: | |
Whatever you do, DO NOT add straight cooking oil. It is too thick and will cause big problems. If you want to burn SVO you need to have a tank for it that has an engine coolant loop to heat the oil. You will have to start the bus on diesel/biodiesel and once the SVO is heated up you switch over to it. It takes some work to build the system but with the price of diesel it may be worth it. The above is a brief descriptio on how it is done. Look at some SVO groups on Yahoo to get diagrams and all the details. |
gillig-dan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 2:31 pm: | |
I'm sold; the bus ran great and pretty much smoke free. I hate to say it ran better because I have no real proof but, it seemed to run smoother with the bio-diesel. It sure smells a lot better than diesel and doesn't burn your eyes. Looks like I may have to trade in the beer making for fuel production. I wish I'd filled the tank myself so I could have done an accurate mileage check. Oh, and when was the last time someone filled your tank for you?
Gillig-Dan |
Dale MC 8
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 10:28 pm: | |
Mike, yeah, you're right. I meant you should be able to dump 'wesson' oil in your already modified wvo/svo tank without the need to filter it, etc.
Sorry, I tend to think that if I know what I'm talking about, everyone else does too.
Dale |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 12:41 am: | |
Yeah Dale I do the same thing. People are always confused after talking to me. |
Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 7:41 pm: | |
OK. I used to post here quite a bit before I began working on VO systems, this has not only taken all my time but it has taken over my business as well, I closed my repair shoip and now all we do is design, build and sell VO systems for diesels. In addition to taking over my business it has taken most of the time away from my conversion of a 40' Neoplan Cityliner I bought on this site!
The bus is comming along, stripped, floor leveled, bedroom in and working my way forward, currently dealing with two sets of pocket doors, what a headache.
Biodiesel - word of caution. I have been riunning it for several years and while it has many advantages, there are some points which should be considered. 1) Below 30F it will gell and you will not be starting on it, so if you are going into the cold, mix at least 10% Petro diesel in. 2)Biodiesel will destroy rubber lines and seals. Pre 92 Volkswagens will have IP failures, the rubber connecting the filler to the tank will fail as will the rubber lines connecting the injectors. Mercedes will have failures at the rubber lines connecting the tank to the hard lines and at the injector return lines. Bus fuel systems will suffer the same issues so look into your fuel system before filling the tank with something which will melt the lines and seals. Viton is the material of choice for biodiesel lines although Teflon will also work. Viton is very expensive although Dayco makes a fuel line called "Dayco Gen 2 Fuel injection hose" which has a viton liner and is less expensive, I do not believe Parker makes anything. It is American made, biodegradable and has many advantages enviromentaly as well as to your health, it is about 70% cleaner than petro diesel.
Vegetable oil -
Let me say that to begine I built a biodiesel processor which fir in the bay of my bus and made biodiesel on board...or tried. To make biodieselk you must be sitting still for about a day, have methanol and lye and a power source, if you mess up the chemistry you get 80 gallons of soap, if you mess up the system you get an explosion. I gave up on this and began painstaking research on straight vegetable oil as a fuel. The basics are as follows:
A diesel engine will burn VO but if not done properly it will destroy the engine. VO is 12 times more viscous (thicker) than diesel and injecting it through an injector designed to atomize diesel is like trying to spray butter through a windex bottle. The easiest way to solve this issue is to thin the oil through thermal degradation (heating) and 150F - 160F is the magic temperature. In addition for reasons too complicated to go into here, the engine must be hot as well. So since the engine needs to be hot and the fuel needs to be hot,I designed a system which allows the engine to be started on diesel, when the coolant reaches 180F the system is capable of delivering VO at 160F and a computer switches the fuel source to VO. Before shutting down, the computer goes through a purge cycle which washes all the VO from the fuel system with diesel insuring that the engine will be restarted on diesel.
The system is composed of a heated fuel tank, heated lines, a final fuel heat exchanger, switching valves and a computer which controls the whole lot. Details of the systems we do for cars and trucks is at www.frybrid.com
For my bus I have a more complicated system composed of two heated tanks, one is for dirty used vegetable oil from the waste bin at a restaruant, the other is the clean tank from which the engine draws. The dirty tank is heated by coolant while driving and as it cools the suspended particulate matter and water settle to the tank bottom, in the morning this crud is drained off and when driving the next run, the tank reaches 140F and the oil is pumped from the dirty tank through filters down to 2 microns and into the clean tank. This process can also be accomplished with the electric heaters installed while on shore power or off the genset.
My bus is powered by a 6V92TA and as an experiment I installed a system on a 1966 Frieghtliner cabover fitted with a 6V71 and ran the crap out of it doing oil analysis before and after as well as boroscope inspection. Clean as a whistle!
While this type of system is not for everyone, it works for many. I have several 275 gallon totes in my shop and a 80 gallon water heater converted into a filter system. I collect oil from several local restaruants at a rate of about 55 gallons a month, this is heated in the water heater and pumped through industrial filters into the totes as clean oil. My bus system has a capacity of 350 gallons of VO and the stock 150 gallon diesel tank giving me a range of 3000 miles from home without refilling.
Check it out and I am happy to answer questions. While we do not currently offer bus systems, I likely will do so.
Chris |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 12:57 pm: | |
Christopher
Where do you buy the "totes" for collecting and storing/processing? |
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