| Author |
Message |
Rusty Thompson (Rusty)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 1:30 am: | |
I know this question has been asked before.... though not quite as direct. I have searched the arcive and find myself not quite satisfied.I have a PD4104 with very little room for insulation and want the best I can get for little space provided. I have seen many opptions and was wondering what would be best and in what combination. In particular Spray foam, a CeramiCoat, Radiant heat barrier... or a combination of all three. I know expense is always an issue, but in this case I just want to know the facts ( and I have access to a sprat foam machine). What have you used, What would you recomend staying away from and in what order should it be installed. |
james dean boggs (Jd_boggs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 1:56 am: | |
On my project I used 3 types of insulation. 1/4" reflective foil with bubble pack, spray on foam "Handi foam" and 3"x48"x50 ft fiberglass roll. I liked the Handi foam because it came with 2 wands. One for spraying in a 12" fan pattern and another for points. I used the point want to inject foam into cavaties that you could not otherwise reach. Once the cavity is filled then I used the wand to get an overall layer of foam. I used a double layer of reflective bouble pack on the windows plus another 3" layer of fiberglass. I used duct tape to hold up the fiber glass until I could install the wall coverings. It worked well for me. Hope it works for you. And finally, use a bread knife to trim the extra foam and mask off areas with thin plasic sheeting you dont want sprayed. That foam sticks to every porous surface.
You can get the foam here: http://www.fomofoam.com/index.htm
or
http://www.teksupply.com
PS
www.fomofoam.com has a handy video showing how to apply the foam. |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 7:38 am: | |
The spray foam may be a little too costly, given the value of the 4104. A good alternative is 1-1/2" rigid foam (the blue or pink stuff) glued to the walls and ceiling and then any gaps filled with the small spray cans of expanding foam. Done carefully, it is nearly as good as sprayed.
Jim |
Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 8:43 am: | |
Rusty,
For the absolute 'best' insulation spray foam , after adding furring strips to attach the interior paneling and Supertherm ceramic coating on the outside of the roof. The nonmetalic thermal break provided by the furring is really important. The Supertherm is much more significant in rejecting summer sun. It's not what I'm doing but it's the best. Since I couldn't find a local spray foam contractor I used urethane sheets and a lot of cutting and fitting, hopefully not to much worse.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120 |
mel 4104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 10:34 am: | |
Rusty not to step on Jim's toes but the 4104 is well worth using spray foam, just be sure that you use the none metalic strips is very important as the make a barier between the inside of bus between the outer metal sheeting and your inside sheeting ,this is very important as with out it you will end up having sweat or frost lines where ever the metal sheeting touches the inner sheeting.what some of us did was strip the inside with wood,then taped of the wood before spray foaming. then right after the foam job was finished we went in and pulled of the tape, this you want to do sa soon as you can as the foan heats the glue on the tape and it sticks like [well i better not say here on the board]and once you have the bare wood showing just rough cut the excess foam off and then take a cheap angle grinderwith a wire brush on it and do the finishing touch up. be sure that you have LOTS of FRESH AIR coming into the interior when you are working inside after it is sprayed.if you want more info. on what and how wedo ours just phone me or give me yours and i can explain it better, mel 4104. |
Rusty Thompson (Rusty)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 6:06 pm: | |
First I would like to thank everyone for the great advise..
Jerry: what exactly are furring strips and does the ceramic coating need to be on the outside of the bus or can I spray it on the inside before I put in any insulation.
About the spray foam. I know it is costly, but luckly the company that I work for does sprayfoam occassionaly and they have the machine. I'm sure that I would be able to use it ( have someone their use it for me) to spray the interior of my bus. I'm sure getting it done at cost will be far cheeper than having a ?professional? do it for me.
My last question would it be benificial to use a radiant heat barrier in as part of my insulation process.Maby between the sprayfoam and whatever I use as the interior covering on my bus. |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 8:18 pm: | |
A radiant heat barrier is a good idea, but needs air space. If you are not tall, you could put an short attic in your coach like Fred Hobe does. Most of us cannot spare the extra inches of ceiling space. |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 9:30 pm: | |
Is using the 4x8 foam sheets then sealing the gaps with spray foam just as good? I was thinking of doing that on the floor and walls then spraying the ceiling. |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 3:17 am: | |
By Niles (4.4.112.82) on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 12:19 am: Edit Post
I may have not been clear - let me see if I can redeem myself - ceramics (nonmetallic solids) are insulators of conductives , such as electricity - ceramics are not insulators of ambient heat (as others have pointed out above) but certain types of ceramics are insulators of ultra high radiant and conductive heat (don't know about ceramics that provide any large measurable radiant barrier at the temps found on bus roofs)- R values and protection against ambient heat loss/gain is attained most popularly by providing layers of and/or encapsulation of trapped 'dead air'- I have not used ceramics as a radiant barrier so I am unsure of its usefulness in that application - but if the product we are discussing were black , do you think it would work as well? - I think not , so the jury is still out on that as far as I'm concerned - Let me recap, IMHO , 1) radiant barriers work , 2) ceramics are 'conductive insulators' for sure , 3) The best insulation smorgasboard would be the combination of the best radiant barrier , provision for as much and as many thermal breaks (insulation for conductive heat) as possible , and the maximum ambient insulation (measured in R values) - I think if you look at your conversion insulation plans in these 3 seperate areas you can provide for the maximum protection against heat gain/loss (no sense in spending big $$$ on state of the art foam insulation if your conducting large amounts of heat through your roof ribs) - Hope this has been some help
Niles |
Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 7:59 am: | |
Rusty,
The furring strips as I'm calling them are strips of insulator (wood) at right angles to the 'ribs' of metal that support the roof and wall outer skins. I used 3/4" plywood ripped into 2" strips and on 8" centers. The furring strips significantly reduce the heat conduction through the ribs. The ceramic bead paint (Supertherm) is best on the outside where it's white color, even when overcoated with a hard smooth top surface (I used Enamogrip from the makers of Supertherm) provides significant reflection of solar heat. While Niles may dissagree, the Supertherm is of significant insulation value. At the very least it's one more 'thermal break.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120 |