| Author | Message | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
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Some time back, someone mentioned having an 8-92 in a 4905 or 4108... Are you on the board at all. Would like to obtain info on it's feasability and any problems. Thanks | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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I would like to see that. Must be a complete transplant of the entire drive train from another application. For sure, that 8v92 ain't going to work with anything in the GM driveline. | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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J.M....Mr. Bob Johnson of Pahrump, Nevada has a 6V92 in his 4104, so why not an 8V? And yes it still sits sideways. no, I don't know who did it, nor where Bob is now. Last I knew he was up in the Northwest- Bend Oregon I think. Any of you folks up in that neck of the woods run across him, give im my email please. Thanks...JJ | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
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Late-model Fishbowls had the 6V92, Santa Monica, etc., so to me that's not a stretch. An '04 would also require a pumpkin change. But an '06 on up should be able to take a 6V92 w/o too much head-banging. Not so for the 8V92 beast, IMHO. More torque and cooling than the stock systems can bear. Not to mention the weight of the thing hanging from the roof, basically. I'm with JM on this one. Oh, and and even if you could... why spend tens of thousand$ to go from 9mpg to 5mpg? BB | ||
| RJL Rating: N/A |
IIRC, there's a fellow up in WI or MN who's got an 8V92TA in a 4106. Has to be real gentle with it, as it puts out too much torque for the rest of the driveline to handle (both stick & auto) if he gets on it hard. (That means pulling 6% grades in high gear!) Perhaps someone over on the Yahell GMC Busnuts group may know who it is and has contact info. FWIW. . .  RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| RJL Rating: N/A |
Brian - 8V92 weighs w/in 100 lbs of an 8V71. . . RJ | ||
| rbt137@yahoo.com Rating: N/A |
4108, # 220 I think. Retrofitted with 8V92 coupled to a v730. works for me......34,000 total. I'd hate to have a 8V71. No intent to offend. | ||
| Bob Shafer (Michigander_bob)
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i stopped to look at a bus last year and the guy showed me his buddies 4104 that he installed a 8-92 in. quite a feat of engineering. said he would NEVER do it again and i believe him. anything can be done with some knowledge,patience and lots of $$$$$$$. bob 4104-2346 flint mi | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
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I don't think the torque from the 8-92 would tear up a v730 that quick. Remember all of the 6-92 city busses with v730's...full of people constant full throttle operation for thousands of miles. The weight is almost the same as an 8-71 but it is about one inch longer and it is already tight near the radiator.The bell hsg is almost the same but the crank seal area is larger...probably need to get a 6-92 flywheel to mate to the 730.I've heard the crank oil holes aren't angled like they used to be, so can be used left hand.Not sure about the camshaft availability in left hand rotation.Some of the engine diffs I've gotten from a Mennonite family that rebuilds lots detroits. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
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Hello to those who dream big. This thread is deserving of a bit of whimsy... The newest big truck engines are electronically limited in torque output in the lower gears so as to not rip the driveline out, and then full torque us allowed to come onstream in the higher gears. Is there an application in here to this present challenge? Also, remember the V730 (and HT740) were engineered in the days when robust was a watchword. They have both been known to perform under "unusual" circumstances without a whimper. Our stock drivetrains were built to be idiot proof, and may be driven any way you want with impunity. That indicates a degree of "over" engineering. Machinery may be satisfactorily run far beyond it's rating, provided that the operator understands when to put their foot into it and when not to.... and is willing to pay for the consequences if they get it wrong! It would be like playing with nitroglycerine, but could you imagine a lighter 4106 conversion with a 500HP 8V92TA DDEC climbing the mountain pass of your choice? Lots of shocked looks in the mirrors? Any lottery winners out there want to finance the test drive? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
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Detroit does make torque limiting mechanical governors that do this very thing....the weak area would probably be the angle gears or the spring plate. The rest of the trans shares parts with the 740 and 750 series. | ||
| Jim Stacy
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Don Mathews used to say "be carefull what you do back there. You'll get a fire going that you can't put out." If you can burn twice the fuel you will get twice the heat. My 350 HP 6V92/ V730 in a 4104 has a special radiator, 8V92 water pump and monster fan blade and you must still watch the temp guage on long hot grades. There is plenty of room for a 8V92 as we had to build a long fan shroud to reach from radiator to fan. A stock bus 8V71 put out about 265 HP. A tuned 8V92 could put out twice that. Way too small a stock radiator for that much HP. A four stroke will generate much less heat than a two stroke for the same output. FWIW Jim Stacy | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
There is a 4106 here in MN with an 8V92TA. It has an end mount turbo that fits between the engine and the radiatior. Very clean install. I had to look twice to see what was going on. He had the 4 speed in for a long time but I understand recently put in a V731. The stories about the performance are pretty amazing, like going west bound on I70 thru the Ike tunnel still in 4th gear. This is truely the sports car of buses. | ||
| RJL Rating: N/A |
Gary - THAT's the '06 I was thinkin' about in my post above!! Do you know the fellow? Does he live close to you, by chance? RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
I don't know the bus owner personally. I saw it when it was in for service at C&J bus repair in Bloomington. I believe the owner live in Little Falls, MN. If you call JD at C&J he might be able to help you. http://www.cjbusrepair.com/ | ||
| Michael 4905/MD Rating: N/A |
Hey! You know, this is exactly what I have in mind for my 4905A should (by some misfortune) my 8V71 turn the corner and die on me. Seems to me any cooling prob's are easily solved, and the 8v92 is just an 8V71 with bigger holes in the block for the pistons. A little more trouble is finding a left hand engine, or finding the right parts to make a righty into a lefty. To turbo it will require some creative efforts when it comes to plumbing intake and exhaust, but I don't think the V730 will have much troubl standing up to it (That is unless you were trying to pull a wheelies or something like that). Me I like the idea. If I had the bucks to spare (or just throw away on a fling) I wouldn't even wait for the 8V71 to bite the dust. I'd be interested to hear more from any who care to contribute their knowledge as to potential problems for such an exchange, particulerly as to reasons why it should not be attempted or why it couldn't work at all. Thamks Michael 4905/MD | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
MAK converted a 4104 into a T-Drive using a 6V92/740. He had to extend the rear a bit (28" IIRC). The engineering burden would be about the same and you wouldn't have the limitations of the driveline "weakest link" I know 4905's have the biggest bays, but sometimes this just makes us lazy about how efficiently we use the space. You might reconsider a Prevost, Eagle or MCI FWIW | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
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I think if you get the bellhsg. and other engine end parts from a LH 6V92 transit donor engine from a parts place like NIMCO, they might sell you just the items you would need, as they dismantle many RTS or Flex, or other brand busses every day.Been there-seen their operation (in New Jersey). The main problem will be the camshafts; I don't know if they make LH rotation camshafts for a 8-92.The Mennonite Detroit Diesel guys I know, had a silver 6-71TA cam reground for left hand use about 15 to 20 years ago.LH 8-92 cams might be available from DDA now. I beleive that the 8-71 oil pan assy.will bolt to a 8-92. | ||
| Phil Dumpster2 Rating: N/A |
Left hand engines were common in twin screw boats with twin engines years ago. You might find one out of such an application. | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
Ok here is the latest on the 8V92 powered 4106. It was replaced with a 6V92TA. Why. DD never produced a left hand 8V92 highway engine, so the only camshafts were marine engines. With the marine cams they had a hard time keeping the engine cool. After replacing the engine they found a company that would have ground 8V92 cams based upon the 6V92 left hand profiles. | ||
| Jim Stacy
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I believe that there will be a cooling problem with any cam in an 8V92 and the small radiator area of a 4106. You can't really understand the great amount of heat generated by high output two stroke DD until you try it. Buses with large radiator area (such as RTS) would be much closer to handling the problem. BTDT. Jim Stacy |