| Author |
Message |
LABryan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:36 am: | |
I need to replace the Michelin XZE steers and drives (due to sidewall checking and cracking) that were on my 90 Prevost XL when I got it. Tag has new Goodyears. I like the Michelins, but they are about $500 a pop. They are the only bus tires I have had, so I have nothing to compare them with. I have heard good things about Kumho and Kumho, Toyo, or even Goodyear will save me at least $100 per tire. Should I spend the extra $600 or more for the Michelins? I plan on replacing tires every 5 years. Thanks. |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 7:49 am: | |
I had excellent results with Kumho tires on the steering axle. In Canada they are sold in Brigestone owned tire shops. The manager told me they had Bridgestone (made in Japan), Firestone (made in Canada) or Kumho (made in Korea). Quite a big step in price between names. |
mel 4104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:23 am: | |
the saving that you think that you are saving just might not be a saving,you might want to use that money on a better insurance policyif you go with a cheap tire. of coures then i will only run bridgestone on the steer axel of any heavy eq. that we have as i had a blow out going through Stockton CA.at 55m/hon the drivers side. it was a tire that the fellow that i got the bus fromhad bought that spring so i figured that i would use them for a trip to AZ. and replace the when we got back, well they we both replaced real quick with bridgestone and nave had no problem since. the brigestone have a firmer side wall and will not feel mushy on the turnsand they do not heat up as much as other makes seem too. the tires on the rear can be different as you have a pair side by side so the soft tire dose not show up so bad. also look at the type of tires that the local transit co. runall in our area run bridgestone as do the buse lines. why would you want to change tires every5 years? just keep the tires off dirt or grass when parked and cover the tires from the hot sunliteand they will last a very long time. this is my way but in the end be sure and do it your way. |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 2:09 pm: | |
I've got two Kumhos on my street side drive axle in my Eagle 10. I bought them last September for $240 each. 8000 miles and so far, so good.
David Anderson |
WEC4104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 6:24 pm: | |
When I bought my 4104 five years ago it had Toyos on it. I have no idea how long they had already been on her, but they didn't look brand new. They are starting to show weather/age, and I'm starting to look at replacing them. But I've been Calif to PA, Maine to Florida and never had any issues with them.
WEC4104 |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:29 pm: | |
Hello LAB.
The question to ask might be: How much cash will I get out of the tires in 5 years, and how easy will I be able to get rid of them?
Trading tires in loses you a ton, because the dealer wants to make some more money on them.
For the best return, you want to be able to wander down to the local truck stop and unload them that afternoon for the best price.
The cheaper the tire, the harder to find a trucker to buy them. (you are planning on using popular tractor trailer sizing? 11R22.5 or 11R24.5)
The "better" the tire, your potential market will be larger, as the trucker will see an opportunity of putting your slightly used "Brand X" on their truck for the same price as buying new "Brand Y", or they will see it as a discounted way to get the "Brand X" that they were going to buy anyway.
For a bus conversion, you do not want to be looking at the tires that transit buses are running. Transits are running tires with heavy sidewalls, for the sloppy drivers' curb rubbing, and usually with 55mph speed ratings.
And don't be looking at the tires on the newer 45 foot coaches, they are much heavier tires than we need on our lighter 35 and 40 footers.
If you want to compromise, remember where you ride in the bus.... put Michelins on the steers and something less expensive "back there".
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Gary Carter
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 11:00 pm: | |
I had Kumho on our 4106 for years. Sold the bus and the Kumho's are still running nicely.
You will not get the life of a Bridgestone or Michelin, but you will get 100K plus. They do not weather like Michelins or cup like Goodyear.
When I have to replace the tires on the Newell it will be with Kumho.
In my book it does not pay to Go french or Japenese when Korean will do. |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 11:19 pm: | |
mel,
That is a very interesting story but you didn't tell us what brand had the blowout and what age it was??
All you told us is that they were bought that spring. Do you know this for a fact or is this what you were told? |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:20 pm: | |
Bus tires have softer sidewalls than semi trailer tires. They are supposed to. It is not where you park as much as how long. my sons new tires on his car have been parked for two and a half years and are age cracked and worthless now. Same tires on our cars, running daily, are fine. Drive them.
I got good recomendations on Korean tires at Niagra tire, at the next trade in the trade in value would be much lower, as buswarrior said. Buying and trading Michelins at five years has worked for me twice now. because of higher trade in long term cost is almost exactly the same as Korean tires. I have 12R22.5s and the prices in Canada are much cheaper, so I have to trade in. I don't have a ready market for my used tires a thousand mile from home. Some dealers will not give a good deal in trade on 22.5s. It depends on the dealer having a trucking company nearby that needs them. |
LABryan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:37 am: | |
Thanks, everybody, for your input. Your replies raise another question which I think was previously discussed here (but I couldn't find it in the archives). I currently have 12R22.5 tires. I know the 11R22.5 will fit my wheels and the increased popularity of the size makes initial cost lower and trade-in value better. But what is the difference in terms of ride and handling? There must be a reason the manufacturer (Prevost) chose the 12R when the bus was new. Any thoughts? Buswarrior, you are my hero on this board. Do you have experience with both sizes? Thanks, all.
Bryan |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:42 am: | |
Yup ... LAB - BW can leap tall fence gates in a single bound - LOL - sorry, couldn't help myself BW _ Niles |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 5:33 pm: | |
Hey, Niles, I sqeezed through the gap, I didn't want to risk tearing my tights on the razor wire if I jumped over.... were you drinking at the time?
LAB, I'm blushing, thank you!
Prevost just put the stock tires they put on everything on it when it left the factory.
In general, commercial buses have some challenges with heavy weights on the axles and tires, and have a competing need for some ride quality for the customers. From a purely practical standpoint, in order to make sure the tires are not overloaded, the bus industry/tire industry puts meatier tires on the buses, with corresponding higher per tire weight ratings. Hence the 12R instead of the more common 11R.
Of interest, in those jurisdictions where heavier axle weights are allowed, you see more 12R tires on the trucks.
For the bus converter, the excessive weights seen in commercial service are likely not going to be experienced, unless you have the marble counter tops, ceramic flooring, 200 gallons of fuel and water, etc...
A bus converrter can pretty reliably expect the weight of the coach to stay fairly steady, only going up and down according to the amount of fuel and water onboard.
This lets the bus converter choose amongst a wider range of tire sizes and weight ratings, and it lets us tailor tire pressures to the actual weight of the coach, instead of the commercial coach having to choose the strongest ones and air up the tires to match the expected worst case scenario. A driver is not likely going to feel a difference between tire sizes if the tire has a matched air pressure to it's load. Some of the old truths regarding hardness are undone because it is a radial tire, not bias ply.
As far as going down the road is concerned, by far the most important issue is alignment, followed by tire pressure, followed by balancing.
Many a steering box has been wrongly identified as the culprit of wandering. Alignment is first.
The brand or size won't be felt by seat of the pants upstairs.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Gary Carter
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:37 pm: | |
Converting to 11R from 12R will reduce your top speed and increase your fuel consumption. In addition you will have a harsher ride.
Just my experience. |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:02 am: | |
It is the 24.5 rim that is the common truck rim. I believe you could sell your 12R22.5s to a trucker that had 22.5 rims. Mostly dump trucks, I think. |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 9:38 am: | |
Hello Gary.
Your loss of top speed and fuel mileage is not due to the change in tire width, it was due to the 11R tires you chose having a smaller circumference than the 12R you replaced.
When buying heavy tires, one should always check on the revolutions per mile for the desired tire.
There is a small impact on top speed and gradeability, that is, the ability of the vehicle to climb hills.
Of great concern for a commercial carrier, because of the annual mileage, fuel use may go up, or down, depending on where you drive the vehicle. Most all of us bus converters, we should never spend money solely based on a fuel economy decision, because we will never drive far enough to recoup the money.
A "smaller" tire, one with more revolutions per mile, will lower top speed, but helps get the bus up the hills. You will get a little further up the hill in a higher gear than with "bigger" tires, which might slightly improve fuel mileage. However, on the flat, the smaller tire will degrade fuel mileage slightly.
The story is reversed with "bigger" tires.
And inflation matched to the load before, during and after. Can't compare apples to oranges.
Of note, we aren't talking about a big change.
Compare the percentage difference between the biggest and smallest tires. Plug in the manufacturer of your choice's tire RPM numbers into one of the top speed calculators to see the relative differences. And tires are just a part of your driveline, so their impact on the whole is relatively smaller again.
Here's one of those calculators: http://www.cwis.net/~mallie/page12.html
Like everything else, tires are a compromise, and only you can decide which variables you wish to use to guide your decision.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
mel 4104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:21 pm: | |
Gus the tire that i had the blowout with was a Bridgestone, when i went to the bridgestone dealer they said too bad the tire is 6 years old and then i showed them the reciet for the tires that was 9 months old from one of their dealers they got red in the face and gave me full warrenty. when checking with the tire shop when i got home as to why one tire was 6 years old and the other 6 months i was told the old one sat in the window as a display tire for 5 years with the sun cooking it all the time. a fellow bus guy in our area put Toyo on the rear of his coach and only got 700 mile before one blew and he is still waiting for warrinty and that was 18 moths ago. and when i scraped 28 transits that i bought last year all the bridgestone went quick and them the firestone and even the goodyear but the toyo and yo. are still sitting there waiting for a buyer. |
Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 4:16 am: | |
I have yokohoma's on my 4905 that are 4 to 5 years old no cracking at all I think the rubber from Japan is better then the USA rubber.
Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon |
johnwood
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 2:08 pm: | |
just bought 6 295/75 22.5 Toyo's installed for $1600
Based on the results I had with Toyo auto tires, I think they will be great. They certainly ride better than the firestones I replaced.
as to resale? My firestones looked good, had 60% tread and the dealer threw them in the trash. Too old to resell after 5 years. Mine were 8 yrs. |
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