| Author |
Message |
Karl VanShellenbeck (Kvan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:20 am: | |
I'm going to look at an mc7 are there any
problem areas that these coaches have? Also would
an mc8 or 9 have any of the same issues? Looked in archives but could not seem to find anything
to speak of.
Thanks Karl |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:46 am: | |
Unless you're going to get it for under 2 grand and it's in near perfect
running and physical condition, I'd suggest holding out for a late model
MC9, or newer. That 7 is an old rig and deserves a rest or reincarnation
into a set of lawn chairs.
Historical notes: http://www.coachinfo.com/AllAboutBuses/MCI_Info.html |
Karl VanShellenbeck (Kvan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:44 am: | |
Thanks John but I have looked at that information before. I probably was not clear enough in what I was looking for. This coach
has been refurbished but I need to know what kind of problems to look for on an older mc7 conversion. Here is a link to it. Did mc7's have
rust problems anywhere to speak of?
http://www.rvtrader.com/rvdetail145059.htm
Thanks Karl |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:03 pm: | |
I wouldn't go as far as whay John says, but this rig is case in point about not throwing a ton of $ into an older chassis if you ever want to resell it. Had they thrown the same $65k into a $25k 96A or 102A shell, they'd easily have a $100k+ worth of resale (they'd need a diesel genny, tho).
Barring a few exceptions, later-model MCIs, Prevosts, and the occasional Eagle seem to be the busses that can get 100% of investment $ back (or more).
Karl, check where you can for rust. It's also probably got non-integral steering, which can get very loose and is very expensive to upgrade. Since it's an MCI, you'll have no problem getting parts. 8v71 + Spicer is a time-tested combo. If the underlying chassis is in good shape, it's a lotta bus for the $.
BUT, I've seen this bus on eBay a looong time ago, so they're having trouble selling it for a reason. Drive it, poke and prod it.
Good luck,
BB |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 1:34 pm: | |
Karl-
There are plenty of used, fully converted buses around that are
newer, and price-wise about the same.
That side-isle was my original plans, until I looked at a couple
that were done as that one. If you're not claustrophobic, you
may end up that way after a week or two of living inside that.
The owner mentions:
"Also has Suburban gas furnace plumbed throughout & original bus
heat - Bus A/C has been removed. 7KW gas Onan Quietset Generator
mounted conveniently behind flip up front bumper "
Yeah, ok.... so where's the spare?
You have 150gal of fresh water and only 80gal of room to flush
it into? Kinda' kewl..
Only 30amp service?
Yeah... but still, it "looks" like you'd get a ton of stuff for 30k!
As mentioned, the absence of integral steering (not terrible unless
it's sloppier than most).. and standard shift (I would have
preferred it, but it hurts resale ability)..
Check the radius arm bushings from and rear. and... and? Take
the bus to a bus garage for a total inspection, front to rear. It'll
cost you a few bucks, but you'll save in the long run whether
you buy it or not. Then take it to an RV repair shop and have
every freeeeking appliance inspected. Do that B-4 you fork over
any hard earned cash. If you are denied the ability to have it
properly inspected.... run, do not walk, the hell away.
It's 30k, man. Even 20k, 10k, or 1k is a ton of bread. How
long did it take to get that much? How many hours away from
family and what you would have preferred doing?
Take that thought and morph it into the thought of having spent
all those hours you'll never get back.... on a 12 ton lemon.
Have it inspected by a bus garage b-4 U buy it.
Lotsa' luck man! |
john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 1:44 pm: | |
Looks pretty nice for the money.....HOWEVER do not buy without looking at the underneath by an experienced bus mechanic. Try to find one from a local transit company that has worked on yhose models in the past. Spend a few bucks to have him inspect it for you. This may be a steal or a nightmare if it has serious issues.; also some hint can be gathered by the workmanship and attention to detail of the wiring and plumbing in the storage compartments. Does any of it look like generally sloppy work? check the fits of the cabinetry and finishing materials, inside and out.Tire condition incl. the inside rear duals. Sometimes people will install a pretty poor tire there out of sight.Talk to Luke at US COACH...he might give you some pointers on checking for the common problems for that particular model. He's worked on just about every bus out there and is a great guy to know. |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 9:14 pm: | |
Karl, I don't think you've received more than 1.5 answers specific to your question, so I'll pipe up. The below is from posts that others have posted in the past that I saved. I do not know about the specific issues with the 7, but I would bet it's very close to an 8 or 9 concerning things to look for. Of course there's lots of generic advice about buying busses, but this is specific to the models you mentioned. Here goes:
Following is a list of 20 questions I copied from this board some time ago. I apologize to the person that actually wrote them and posted them - I did not keep a record of who it was to give them credit. I hope this helps with some ideas.
Following is my list of 20 questions that were designed to help me
decide whether I wanted to invest in an airplane ticket and go look,
personally.
The MCI has a lot of stainless steel that is famous for not
corroding. However, there is considerable use made of other steel
that will corrode when penetrated by rainwater, saltwater, etc.
These corrosive waters do their damage when they penetrate protective
barriers such as rubber seals, paint, vinyl, etc. - anything designed
to protect.
New paint is by far the most obvious sign of a well-maintained bus,
but may put on for just a really big show.
New rubber seals around marker lights, windshields, and side windows
don't put on a really big show, but are essential for preventing
water from sneaking behind and between and silently doing its witchy,
rustcraft!
1. Some rain leaks in the windshield to some degree. At the bottom
of the center windshield divider, check the dash for evidence of
corrosion creeping under the vinyl. How many inches toward the
driver's side and passenger's side does the "puckering" creep? How
many inches from the front to the back edge of the dash? When the
front skin is removed, the results of this water seepage becomes
evident.
______________________________________________________________________
2. What is the present condition of the rubber seals around the left
and right windshields? UV damage causes the locking spline to shrink
in length - the 1/4" wide strip of rubber, pressed into a groove to
lock the seals and windshields into place. How many inches shorter
is it now? (IOW how many inches of gap is there at each of the four
corners)? How much silicon sealer has been added to avoid replacing
the seals?
______________________________________________________________________
3. The rubber seals around marker lights and side windows age and
start to leak in rain. The water corrodes internal structural braces
when it gets there. This cannot be seen externally until significant
damage is done internally. Evidence of penetration can be deduced by
looking for "puckered" paint around rivets way below the suspected
water entry point. Outright metal corrosion can sometimes be seen
where there are no rivets - it looks like painted-over welding
spatter. By the time you can see this actual physical corrosion, the
damage is done. You can only hope it aint as bad as you suspect.
______________________________________________________________________
4. Learn what these "puckers" look like - there are 2 drainage holes
by the fresh air intakes that belong there. Look around that area
for other "puckers" and things that look like painted over "welds"
or "spatters" - these aint natural. Then look for these unnatural
things elsewhere.
______________________________________________________________________
5. When the rubber seals around windows are regularly replaced, the
internal damage is minimized. When were these seals last replaced?
Just before today is not a good sign.
______________________________________________________________________
6. Actual holes of corrosion are exactly that - evidence of serious
internal damage due to water and rust. How many spots like this show?
______________________________________________________________________
7. Examine the rubber seals around the windows down at the bottom of
the "post" between any two windows. 2 weep/drain holes belong there -
one on each side of the dividing post. Any other signs of
imperfection are aging and evidence of corrosion. When were the
seals last replaced? Just before going up for sale? That's the same
thing as rebuilding an engine in the shop just before resale - or a
quick cosmetic paint job. These are "tricks of the trade" performed
in order to give a false impression of "well-maintained."
______________________________________________________________________
8. Another place to look for the results of prolonged water exposure
is found under the floor. Sit in each bay on the its floor, looking
outward, toward the upraised door. In the center area, above you,
you can see a floor support that goes from the chair anchor rail,
that is a trapezoidal beam over your head, toward the outside wall.
This "joist" attaches to the outside panel. If it is rusted through
and is now detached, I believe there is not a serious structural
defect, but what you have is another indicator of the possible amount
of water damage, between the wall panels and the steel tubing above
and inside. How many of the bays show rusted detachments?
______________________________________________________________________
9. A serious sign of structural deterioration is the plating of the
air beams due to air leaks. Look between the tag and drive axles and
check for beam plating. Are any there? How long does the coach stay
aired up?
_____________________________________________________________________
10. Leaky radiators and road spray can do damage on the radiator
supports at the back bulkhead. How do they look? Besides hidden
water damage, producing structural damage and non-structural, there
are other considerations when attempting to measure the value of a
prospective bus purchase:
______________________________________________________________________
11. What is the owner's Preventive Maintenance philosophy?
Scheduled? Or, "If it ain't broke don't fix it?
______________________________________________________________________
12. What kind of steering? Boost? Integral? Loose/tight?
______________________________________________________________________
13. Bay doors - # dings? # dents? Banged skirt rails at the bottom
edge? SS welding of new skirt rails? Do all bay doors open right?
______________________________________________________________________
14. Door - # dings? # dents? signs of forced entry?
______________________________________________________________________
15. Tire condition? Rubber decoration bent or loose?
______________________________________________________________________
16. Current hubometer mileage?
______________________________________________________________________
17. Rear engine doors open easy? Misalligned? Oil coated/oily dusty?
______________________________________________________________________
18. Start engine cold (what was air pressure before starting?) - color
smoke? Smokes how long?
______________________________________________________________________
19. Inside of bays - original paint? Rust in front of air tank
access? Evidence of repair?
______________________________________________________________________
20. Signs of toilet water leakage? Spongey floor in front of toilet
room?
-------------
There are several key places to look at to see if a bus is beginning to cave in. The first area
is in the rear luggage bay along the back wall. You may see some rust lines below the top
edge. These can be repaired by welding plates over the area.
Another sign is to look at the side of the coach to see if the beltline moulding is flat
against the bus, or isi it wavy with some of the screws popping out. Also look at the
painted area. If it is wavy then the framework behind it is fading away. In the front you
chack the door aliignment and closing. As mentioned this could be bad bodywork so
check in the spare tire area as well. The other area that is a problem is the frame area or
airbeams between the front wheels. They may look good on the sides, but the top is where
they fade away.
One more area that is common on the MCI's is the frame around the engine doors and
radiator supports.
---------------------
The rust is easy to inspect, and it is impossible at the same time. I will try to explain. There is not much "frame exposed, only in the wheel areas on an mc-8, so it is relatively easy to see rust, or where it has been covered up. A sharp pointed scribe is a good instrument to check for rusted through area. This is about the only place it is impractical to replace in the mci.
On the body, check under the front bumper in the spare tire compartment. Open the Radiator doors on the rear with a flat point screw driver ( quarter turn) and look at the top rear around where the bottom cap attaches. This can usually be repaired if you are replacing the cap.
Open every bay and look just inside at the top, and where the frame enters.
Look for rivets with signs of crinkled paint around them indicating rust Look down the side for sags or warps. Push on the siding is several spots under the windows, and in the front.
Now the impossible. I have never seen a bus with the interior skin removed that did not have some rust, many very severally rusted, and you could not tell it. Most common places are under the window, around escape hatch, around clearance lights etc. If you are removing the skin and foaming, it is not hard to repair minimal rust.
--------------------
Credit for one of the above + more here:
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/997.html
HTH!
|
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:07 pm: | |
Wow. From 1.5 to 1.25!
HAR!
Karl... It's fine to list and locate the defects that -you- can fix.
But all the things that you'll need some professional training and
heavy equipment tools to fix, is what you need to know about.
If you're sure you can get up to speed and learn as much as a
bus mechanic that's been repairing nothing but buses for years,
go for it, bro. But you'll still need either a pit or a lift to inspect
everything that may cost you more than a new shell.
Do yourself a favor Karl, and learn from other's mistcakes.
I should have brought my 9 to the bus garage before I bought
it. I didn't. I had a real neat check sheet I printed off some web
site. Things like wiring problems, half-assed engine and transmission
swaps with incomplete associated work, no emergency shutdown,
worn pinion.... all things that you simply wouldn't know about,
unless you knew what to look for and had a lift to use to look
for it. All the things that no "check sheet" can have, the experienced
bus mechanic will have.... in his head.
Take it to a bus garage.
(jus tri-n ta help, bro.) |
Jim (Jim_in_california)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 12:38 am: | |
My understanding from this forum and other online reading is that the MC7 is a good bus but "overweight" for what it needs to be and doesn't have the steering updates of the 1982 forward MC9.
If it checks out OK by a pro, and the steering is in good shape, it can be a decent critter. |
Craig (Ceieio)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 3:48 pm: | |
Karl - MC7, 8, and 9's are all old. I was in grade school when my bus was built. It all comes down to the individual condition of the bus you are looking at.
I like my old war horse and it is in pretty good shape. The previous owner had it for 20ish years and spent the $$ needed to keep it right. He sold it because he felt that an 85 year old dude should not be driving a bus any more. He kept it in a continual state of upgrade as well as maintaining it. The Ht740 and the 8v71 now have 14K on a full out of frame and both function perfectly. It was not his first bus and he new what he was getting in to.
The non-integral steering is hard to get accustomed to. Mine was all rebuilt before I bought it and works to spec; the only problem is the spec! The closest thing I have that drives like that is the stock over-boosted power steering in my 68 Camaro. Most of my wheel time is in my 03 Tahoe Z71, my Viper GTS, or my wife's Toyota Sequoia. These all have very tight steering. When I get in the bus I have to remember to loosely hold the wheel and not to expect it to stay centered all the time. After a while you learn to go with the flow and the darn things seems to go down the road straight and not wear you out. Resting my hands lightly at the nine and three o'clock positions seems to be the most realxing.
Weight, I dunno, my converted 7 tips the scales at 30,100 lbs (water tanks were empty). That weight seems in the hunt for a 40 footer. I will probably pick up some weight on my remodel as I am doing a tile floor.
That being said, I think a 7 may take longer to sell because of the flood of 9's on the market and a perception of newer-model-is-better. I started out with this perspective but came to realize that the bus in the best condition for the $$ wins, not the model number on the plate. I pay cash for my toys and appreciated the lower buy in price for the coach. I also expect a lower sell price when I decide to do something else. The difference between the two will be the cost of my bus entertainment for the time I have it. Try not to dwell too long on the depreciation; they’re no pockets in a coffin.
I also have seen this particular bus for sale in various venues over the last 2 years. Look long and hard at it before you buy. In the past it was priced higher so that may have been the stumbling point. It has nice curb appeal, but beyond that I know nothing of it. (The wifeoid can't press the clutch down in most big rigs, exception was an air assist Eagle we drove, so we did not look into this particular MC7).
Best of luck and happy coaching!
Craig - MC7 Oregon |
|