| Author | Message | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
My husband and I bought a bus on ebay, and the seller either misrepresented or was very mistaken about the condition. Only 7 hours away from pickup, outside of the Detroit area, the tranny stopped working. I am told it needs replacing. Is there any recommendations on who to trust to rebuild or replace the tranny? Where it is now is definitely willing to do the work, for a price, but not specialists and not looking forward to the job, although they are kind enough to store this at no charge while I seek a resolution. | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
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Peg, Ted Campbel at Coach Maintenence in Williams California is very experienced with the VS2-8 and has the parts etc to repair them. He is hard to get a hold of but does have a web site from which you can get his phone number. He's on the west coast and works from about 6 pm to well past midnight. My 4107 parts manual includes the VS2-8 & I could copy the relevant pages and send them to you if that would help (email me off the board with how to get it to you). Exactly what were the symptoms? Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
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Peg, Ted's # is (530) 473-5544 Hope this helps Dale | ||
| RJL Rating: N/A |
Peg - It might help if you'd let us know where you are, and where the bus is. There might be some busnuts who are in the area that can help. Also, Luke at US Coach is a major source of help for GMC owners. You can call him toll-free at 1-888-262-2434 between 9-5 Eastern M-F. If Kevin Webb chimes in here, I believe he's got a VS-2 transmission that used to belong to a fellow GMC owner who swapped it out for a V-730. It was in running condition at that time. HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Frank Allen Rating: N/A |
Problem is i dont know where you are?? There is a good honest mech in mcminnsville Tenn which is in the eastern part of the state, name is Terry Bennett, ph is 931-813-3180, if you are anywhere near why not give him a call maybe you can connect, he is a good one Frank Allen 4106- 2626 | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the responses! We are in the Minneapolis area, and the bus is stranded in Mt. Clemens, Michigan, on the northeast side of Detroit. I actually located a vs2-8 in New Jersey that is selling as is ( a take-out) for $1000. It can get to Detroit area for about $200. I am just hoping we can find someone near where the bus is, rather than spend thousands lugging it to get fixed. Someone recommended we get it rebuilt or inspected before switching it out, since it comes as-is. The symptoms of the tranny is that it stopped going, although it didn't leak all over, it still has it's fluid, but it no longer shifts into gear at all. It is stranded at Wolverine Freightliner in Mt. Clemens, and the mechanic, Kevin, told me to get my money back. He is very nice, but I know he doesn't really want to touch the bus. Michigan has no lemon laws, so a refund's not gonna happen without a lawsuit, since the seller doen't care if the auction said "can be driven home" and we may not get anything even if we won. The bus is outfitted with new everything inside, washer/dryer, generator, etc. the ebay auction # is 4560882353, so you can see what we were told we were getting. J.D. Dickinson at C&J repair in Bloomington MN told me he has many customers he keeps running in their 4106's, and he said the vs2-8 will not work long term as an interstate rv tranny, but we can't afford what he quoted us to switch to the v-730 (12 grand) so, I am hoping, especially after reading some older posts debating the questionability of the vs2-8 that maybe it will suffice, or maybe we can find someone doing this switch for a more affordable price, although based on the work described by J.D. ( changinh the position of the engine) it sounds unlikely. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Peg- Call Luke. It doesn't sound like a major problem.. He could tell you what to do. | ||
| Leslie Robinson (Lesrmc9)
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first call luke!!! his opinion is very valued on this board. the ebay picx show some very valuable items just the onan gen and wabasto are about half your purchase price. other than your personal pocket book, the price with trans swap(either one)is an excellant price for this unit. hoping the pinch is not to painful, enjoy Les R | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
That VS-2 is a pretty simple transmission. Be sure the fluid level is correct, it needs to be checked with the engine idling on level ground in neutral after running it through fwd & rev, when warm. Is the shifter working correctly at the transmission? There could be a mechanical shift cable running back from the front, but more likely its an electrically operated air shifter that moves the F-N-R lever. (The VS2 is actually a mechanical "one speed" mechanical forward & reverse trans with a torque converter and an overdrive planetary gearset.) It's an old design but rugged transmission that can, by the way, be overhauled without removing it. There is also a "Neutral solenoid" which on some models is energized in neutral and in others is energized in "Drive". If the "energize to drive" type fails or loses power to it, you will stop moving. You need a decent VS-2 manual to troubleshoot. If you buy another trans, keep the old one, don't junk it there. It might need something minor or just a normal overhaul. If you don't want it, you may be able to sell it & recoup some expense & help some other busnut. By the way, the VS2-8 is the original automatic fitted to the GM 4106, 4107, 4903 & 4905 models which are all interstate highway coaches. What he probably means is that in this day & age, there's almost no one around that routinely repairs these. Parts, etc are available from WW Williams, a large Detroit Diesel distributor who bought the design from GM. Once you get a properly overhauled transmission installed, you should be all set for as long as you own your new bus. | ||
| Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
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Peg, get the mechanic to check the neutral solenoid. if yours has the cable shift. the shifter has a microswitch in it to activate, they stick. mine done that plus my backup lights stayed on all the time. Those tranys can take alot before giving up. Call Luke or Ted. Ted knows some tricks for those tranys to use them as a "RV" trans to get them to last. P.S. Judging by Eplace you got a good deal. There will be small problems with older equipment, so keep your chin up and laugh about it. That is how I have done it for years. Dale | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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WOW....great information on the solenoid...you might be running with 50.00 to the mechanic...nobody has given you LUKES number...888-262-2434 | ||
| Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
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Good save TD I forgot to give Luke's #. I'm still on first cup so not awake good. | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
Thanks- This solenoid possibility seems very likely, since we were told by a mechanic at Valley Truck, the first place it was towed, that the fluid was full and looked clean. I will just hope that there is a simpler problem here than larger, and considering someone went to all the trouble of assembling the interior such as it is, with only the floor and ceiling unfinished, we didn't want to throw in the towel. Jerry Liebler mentioned he has a manual for the vs2-8 and asked me to email him for a copy... I am so grateful there is this bulletin board to get this information, because otherwise we'd be in the dark... The bus was actually appraised for $32,000 before we finalised purchase, but the mechanic seemed dubious to the value of the bus... He said we needed better rated airbrakes than come with the original equipment. My husband said they didn't seem to respond very well. I am hoping to find a mechanic in the Detroit area, perhaps at Williams we would find one, who would be willing to do this troubleshooting for us, because I am getting the sense that Kevin at Wolverine Freightliner's reluctance at working with an unfamiliar unit makes him not the best candidate for troubleshooting the solenoid problem. I will call Luke and Ted on Monday and see if they know who best to troubleshoot this tranny in Detroit area. THANKS!!!! -Peg P.S. We were told the tires are bad. What's the best way to go with new/retread? | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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new on front....bandag on rear.....LUKE should know somebody in Detroit area....most truck shops do not like to work on buses...nice lookin' bus... | ||
| PAUL COLLYER (Paso_1)
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Check the wire that plugs into the solenoid (one plug at each end. They tend to fall off and that alone will prevent it from going into gear. This very thing happened to me yesterday on a VS2-8 the spades on the solenoid are _1 Would go into reverse but not forward. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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tell them EXACTLY where the solenoid is Paul | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
Paul, you are talking about the air shifter mechanism on the right hand side of the transmission, near the bottom. There is a solenoid at each end. The neutral solenoid is on the top of the large rear section of the trans, mounted to the rear of the valve body (which is bolted on the exterior rather than inside like most car valve bodies.) Some VS2-8s have two solenoids. It will be the one on the right hand side. | ||
| PAUL COLLYER (Paso_1)
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Yes jim bob My air shift solenoid was on the right bottom front end of the VS2-8 the wire closest to the tail gate is the forward solenoid the one towards the front is the reverse. I did not access it thru the side door but thru the section between the right rear wheel and the side access door. Lay on the ground and look up at the tranny it is almost visable thru the tranny door but easier to see from ground up from the next panel. I know what I am saying but I don't know if you know what I mean. (got my face slapped as a kid lots  ) | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
(Aww come'on, Paul.. you didn't use the word "do-hicky" once.... here). | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
So...Just how many solenoids are there on this tranny, and can they all be considered suspect in its' disabling? I called Luke today...we are still trying to sort out who will troubleshoot this for us...Luke asked if my husband heard any loud noises or felt anything when the tranny stopped working, and he says no...it just sort of stopped accelerating, and slowly rolled to a halt. One of the other things besides bad tires and needing higher rated airbrakes than are on the bus that Kevin at Wolverine mentioned as bad that I am unsure of the meaning is he said he could see linkage hanging down from the underside of the bus. Forgive my ignorance, but can somebody tell me what linkage is, and what that means? And, as long as I am asking, can anyone tell me what king of airbrakes are sufficient. Kevin said ours were 70 something, and that DOT ratings were 125 something (something being not exactly used like do-hickey, but sort of) Thanks- | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
RE: "...it just sort of stopped accelerating, and slowly rolled to a halt. " Sounds like a fuel problem, not a brake problem. If you've never owned or driven a bus, the diesel will quit under only two conditions... No fuel, or no air. I would suspect that the engine's run out of fuel. "Linkage" is the apparatus that is mechanical, and used to control the power to the engine, or the transmission. Most often, the sight of it, is not recognized by the non-mechanic. If you stand where you can see the "linkage", and have the operator move the shifter across the gear range, you might be able to discern where the linkage might be disconnected, but not always so... The linkage might also be the apparatus that controls the acceleration. In any event, taking great care in inspecting the movement of any mechanical item, as the bus controls are put through their paces, should provide some indication of what isn't happening, when it should be happening. This doesn't sound like a major $problem$, it sounds like a simple oversight..... Like a clogged fuel filter, too little oil, insufficient water level, or no fuel in the tank. The auto-shutdown will kill the engine when ship happens. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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linkage hanging down ?...would have to be in the back....? you sure do need somebody with knollege to look at your bus.all this doesn't sound like the transmisson is out. | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
It stopped accelerating and rolled to a halt, but the engine kept running...I Just spoke to John Hanna at Valley Truck, the first shop it was towed to, and double-checked what he saw when it was there. He said of what He could understand of what my husband was saying (He's Cuban- think Ricky Riccardo but a MUCH thicker accent) The bus wouldn't shift into forward or reverse after it stopped. We have a mostly full fuel tank, although the seller said he warned my husband that he needed to keep eyes on the fuel filter, said the bus had sat a long time and could easily become clogged. The interesting thing John mentioned is that he said he and his mechanic were amazed at how clean and red the tranny fluid looked for a bus that had been sitting for a long time and had just been driven 6 hours straight. He said they were also impressed by how the engine sounded. So... I am still seeking a mechanic who will troubleshoot this without hesitation. Kevin at Wolverine doesn't want to "open this can of worms" and it would be unfair for me to criticize a mechanic completely unfamiliar with this vehicle for his lack of enthusiasm. I only wish he had expressed such an opinion when I originally called him and asked him if they could help me out. I am being fair and guessing he had no idea what was getting towed his way. Worst case scenario, We tow it to N.J. and let someone confident do this, but Luke asserts it shouldn't have to come to this. He is also more of the opinion after reading yesterday's posts here that it is probably not a major tranny problem. On thursday a mechanic named Tom comes back from vacation at a shop called Vehicle Clinic, and the receptionist said he might be able to do this. Thanks again for all the input, I am more optimistic now than ever that we can get our bus back to our house- at some point- and use it! | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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hang in there Peg... I have a friend that LOVES the vs 2-8....he says it was the best automaic ever made....I still say doesn't sound serious...just need to find somebody that knows about vs-2...NO truck guy knows...will have to be a bus guy...have your husband get underneath & look for loose wires & plug 'em back into those solenoids...or wait for an expert... | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
You might want to check with the local transit company. Most of the older mechanics will be aware of the VS2. Might find one that would like to make a few bucks moonlighting. | ||
| frank-id Rating: N/A |
There is a guy in the hi desert near Lancaster, Ca. This man is Loren Joplin. He can fix all GM trans and says the VS2-8 is the best auto trans Loren has many good ideas for auto trans. His phone number is 951 943 2354.. He helped me a few times working on a VS2. http://www.gmbus.com/ gmbus@dslextreme.com Frank | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
Frank- just to get another opinion I called Loren. He asked me what color the tranny fluid was, and when I said red, he told me a fairly in depth history of why the VS's should not use dextron, they should be lubed with motor oil. He said Allison's manual says differently, and that he and his constituents fought them, showing them destroyed "planetarys" which is what he thinks must be the cause of the bus's sudden loss of shifting ability. Now I have another enitrely different opinion. Has anyone out there run a tranny on motor oil? Loren SWEARS that dextron is too thin at high temps to keep the planetary pins from wearing down... wow.. the plot thickens...? | ||
| PAUL COLLYER (Paso_1)
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The VS2-8 tranny in Fishbowl Brians fish was using motor oil I drove it 1700 miles shifted fine I was aware of Loren's position on using motor oil in those trannys. He has lots of back up for the reason to use motor oil. | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
Hurray! Tom at Vehicle Clinic in Detroit has worked on VS2-8 trannys before. He was kind enough to drive over and look at it at Wolverine. I had not realised until I talked to Kevin again to see if it was ok for Tom to come and look at it that he had already tried to troubleshoot the tranny over the phone with J.D. at C&J in Bloomington MN, and had already established that all the solenoid and electric seemed ok. Well, this just goes to show that you are best off with someone who's been there and done that, because Tom said it was probably the hydraulic or a gear, but not likely the whole tranny. Am I wrong, or is this sounding like it could be that "planetary" after all? My husband said that if it turns out to be the same pin that Loren is referring to, then he will use oil in stead of dextron. He says they don't have dextron in Cuba, and they use a blend similar to oil for the trannys there. Thanks for all the help, I will post the final outcome when it arrives. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I think in cuba they use a product called:"BAA BAA LUBE"... ....(forgive me if he doesn't have a sense of humor) seriously tho...I think all bus transmissons use motor oil...even the manual shift | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
Tee Hee! Unfortunately, my husband wouldn't even get the joke, he's never seen "I Love Lucy." I get it, tho', and that's good enough! Yeah, where he came from they were REALLY poor- worse than average for Cuba- they had an outhouse, washed the dishes the same place they bathed- the river- and central air meant no screens or windows! It's hard for the American princess to truly grasp the poverty her counterpart grew up with- and this is why he adores gadgets so much! Anyhoo, we should get a report after the holiday weekend as to what we have to fix- and then the verdict on all this speculation will be in! Thanks again to everyone for their terrific advice and for giving us hope that maybe we didn't throw away a lot of money. We are really looking forward to moving into the bus...which is why we originally wanted it. The last time we sold our house we bought a school bus and loaded it full of our stuff, sold our house and lived out of the bus with an electrical cord and just used our house for cooking and washing- which made it much easier to sell, as some days 10 people would schedule walk throughs, and the realtors showing the house don't really want you to be there. It was really great! It was a 1986 Thomas and we sold it a year later for the same price we got it for- $1400 (ironically 10% of the cost of this "new" bus, the 4106.) We have fantasized about having a converted bus for years, and I guess all those nice pictures we saw on ebay were hard to resist. If all goes well, the plan is to sell the house, drive the bus to NY and stay there long enough to help my Mom + Pop redo their bathroom before the toilet falls through the floor! Then... we aren't exactly sure where we will relocate for permanent residence. I am finding visiting this bulletin board is becoming addictive, and that's probably to my benefit, if this life of ours is headed where it seems. Sorry- it's late, and I know I am definitely rambling on, an it's outta control! | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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there is a posibility you have dd-3 brakes....they are good brakes...BUT...another thought about your transmisson problem,please have the vs-2 mechanic go over HOW to release the brakes...they will cause transmisson failure if not completly released... | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
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Peg, I wouldn't be too quick to give up on the VS2-8. I have seen reports on this very board of 10 mpg with a VS2, but more like 7 or 7.5 mpg with the V730. That's a real significant difference in operating cost. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| Dale MC 8
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Then... we aren't exactly sure where we will relocate for permanent residence. My [unasked for] advice, try not to let yourself become a permanent resident. | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
OK- Tom at Vehicle clinic has some other buses in front of ours, but today they pulled off the pan and verified that no gears are damaged, although they found a spring that has come from somewhere in the tranny. Prognosis is delayed by order of importance.My husband is working in IL and NC for the next 3 weeks, so even if it were fixed tomorrow there is no one to drive it home. I will ask Tom about the brakes. I had decided that when he has our bus in line to work on, better give it a "checkup" at the clinic. Dale, thanks for the unasked for advice. We are merely determined to not purchase anything we can't put 20% down on. I love NY but will only live there if we can get the right price. Because we both travel for our work, in many ways where we make our permanent residence does not matter as much as it does to many. There are some gigs in NY I had excluded from my schedule to try new ones in MN, and they were nice, but not better than the ones I have done here every summer for years. The east coast has a great base for me as an artist. Anyhoo, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment Dale, as long as it isn't just a comment about living in NY, but is directed at the concept of making oneself a permanent guest.:0). | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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PEG... VERY important about LEARNING how to release brakes....newbee's have ruined MANY transmissons & clutches because the brakes were NOT released.... | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Very, very few 4106s came from the factory with DD3 brakes on them, and none came with spring brakes. Some folks may have converted the original single-chamber rears to the long-discontinued Mini-Max brake chambers, but that number is probably fewer than those '06s with DD3s. Releasing the parking brake on a stock 4106 w/o DD3s is as simple as releasing the Johnson bar - no 100 psi brake pedal application needed. Peg - Is there a yellow or black button somewhere on the dashboard to release the parking brake, or do you have the simple handbrake lever to the left of the driver's seat? FWIW, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
And the final answer is... the parking brake is a stick to the left of driver's seat that locks in the up or down position ( I can't remember which one my husband told me was off- down?) so just for the record he sounded certain he didn't accidentally leave the parking brake in the wrong position, and the way he described it made it sound like it would be a no brainer as to its position, at least, that's how it sounded, since he said it locked into place. He doesn't have any real experience driving tractor trailers, but he has years of experience driving rental trucks (the kind that are just inside the limits of needing a different class license) to transport his company's setup to different festivals. They are big rental trucks, and they are stick or automatic, depending on what's available. I know my husband likes standard tranny's best, and that one of the things that freaked him out about the bus is the push button automatic- he said he'd never seen or even heard of something like this. Of course, he was hoping there would be some silver lining to having automatic, like in the event he got sick I could still drive the bus (I don't do standard!) But what really bothered him came into mention not only by the seller but also by the mechanic who currently has it- the possibility exists to hit the reverse button while cruising down the road- of course, since this was a major concern for my husband, I don't think he went ahead and hit the button, and when the seller suggested it as the possible cause of the tranny failure my husband replied "He must think I'm really stupid!" We are still waiting on service at vehicle clinic, where we gave them the ok to delay the work if others had priority, especially since my husband can't go to pick it up until he comes back from NC in october. Sigh... I am still anxious to get the word on exactly what the problem is, what, we bought this bus in mid- July? Patience is something I'm just getting used to over this one. | ||
| Don/TX
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Just hang in there Peg, the finest drive in a bus I ever had was a 4106 with a VS2! I also put a VS2 into my 4905 and loved every minute I owned it. All parts are available, replacements are available, most things that ever go wrong are owner fixable, the ONLY thing that is bad is what you already found out, nobody knows how to work on them anymore. Acquire a service manual for it and enjoy it! Keep us posted! | ||
| Peg Rating: N/A |
For the record, I started a new thread with the dire outcome of our tranny- something like Newbie 4106 vs2-8 tranny problem- burned out drive coupler this thread seemed a bit old, but since I found this webpage with vs2-8 references while googleing, I realised this could help someone out some day. |