| Author |
Message |
shawn bennear (Lilneoplan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 3:53 pm: | |
I was wondering if I could install a electric cooling fan on my 86 Neoplan.
The fan it currently has is belt driven, and I suspect the bearings may be going. New from neoplan, the part is $482.00
ugh...
I did find this company that makes heavy duty fans for buses. Here is their link... What do you guys think?
http://www.electricfanengineering.com/index.htm
shawn |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 4:43 pm: | |
Shawn -
Why do you suspect the bearings are failing?
Have you considered disassembling that component and getting new bearings from a bearing house, rather than a complete new assembly from Neoplan?
Check yours out a little closer - you may find the vendor on the unit itself, as Neoplan probably bought it from somewhere in the first place.
But, back to your question. Search the archives - this topic has come up over a dozen times in the last five/six years.
FWIW,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
shawn bennear (Lilneoplan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 6:38 pm: | |
I am sure the bearings are failing because you can grab the pulley and the fan and wiggle them. there is more play in there than i would like to see. my understanding is there should be NO play at all.
am I right? the bus has a new rad, and I dont want the fan flying through it.
shawn |
Doug Wotring
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 7:22 pm: | |
Shawn,
First I would try to repalce the bearings......
To get a fan that will do the job that the pully powered fan will do you will spend near as much as the neoplan Part. And then on top of that you have the mounting etc of that unit to deal with.
on a side note.....even an electric fan that has the capability to move to proper ammount of air can be a problem. If it fails you are stuck...trying to figure out the problem, or replacing the whole unit.
Mechanically driven fan....belt breaks.......replace belt ( should have a spare on the bus) and your on the road in a few |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 8:20 pm: | |
Shawn: The company on the web site you posted has a very important item in their advertisement (quote)
"Most over-the-road vehicles, equipped with clean heavy duty radiators that benefit from ram air cooling, can replace their conventional belt-driven fans with electrics."
Since almost all highway busses have a rear engine and radiator, they do not get any ram air to the radiator. Cooling on highway busses is a problem and changing the factory design is not simple.
There are two experts on this board on electric fan cooling. One has done it and I think is still working on improvements while nobody knows what the other one has accomplished. |
Ian Giffin (Admin)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 8:39 pm: | |
Subtle, Stan, very subtle!
:-)
Ian
www.busnut.com |
Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 8:48 pm: | |
Hi Shawn,
Dont' go electric unless you have serious motivation to do so and/or you are willing to live with the consequences of burning up your engine. I'll elaborate on Stan's post by referring you to their "Going Electric" section on this page. Note in the third paragraph that the use the words "...select primary cooling applications...", and then continue on to state that it is okay so long as "...water, oil and charged air temperatures, as well as air-conditioning head pressure[s].." are monitored.
Unless you're a "super-nut" like myself and want to go ahead and add sensors to all of those systems anyway, I'd back off the electric idea. They also mention the alternator issue, which if you're going to produce the 15HP (aproximate) of eletromotive power required to spin that fan - you'd better be able to put your batteries/alternator (read electrical system) where your fan is! If you can't source 300Amps continuous for three minutes don't even get the thought of electric in your head...
I did an electric fan on my main radiator, but I did it while re-designing the WHOLE electrical system - and it took about 4 months of real engineering to figure out how to do it right. My suggestion for you is the same for the last guy who had a small (inexpensive) mechanical problem with a fan: "spend the $400 on the part and get it done right."
FYI, the electric motor you're going to need is ~$450, and you'll still need a $350 motor controller, then ~$20/yr for new brushes and springs (regular maintenance).
Cheers! and K.I.S.S. (unless you're a bored EE)
Tim |
john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 8:51 pm: | |
There may be someone on the board that might sell you a pair of fans to experiment with....if you can get or borrow a manual or get a picture of the parts breakdown...you should be able to replace the bearings either yourself or by a competent mechanic. Most,not all, coach items are designed to be rebuilt at reasonable cost. |
David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 9:08 pm: | |
Take the fan and bearings off the coach.
Press or drive the bearings and races out and take
them to any local bearing house. They will find and provide replacements probably off the shelf.
It doesn't matter who built the bus, fan or assemby, They all used standard bearings available just about anywhere on the planet.
Thousandths or millimeters it is all relative. I replace german bearings with japanese bearings all the time on printing presses and vice versa.
I replaced bearings in an Italian built generator head. The factory wanted $280.00 for the set, Miller Bearing in Orlando had them for $20.00 for the set. Timken Brand which is one of the best made. |
akrom
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 9:24 pm: | |
Electric fan to cool a coach? I dunno', ask Twolddogs. akrom |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 9:51 pm: | |
bar-b-que 'em.........ummmm num num |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 1:23 am: | |
Shawn,
Tim gives good advice. I'd stay stock for many more reasons than he provides.
If you (or mainly others) are not familiar with pressing bearings in and out, check with a local resource like a large repair shop or automotive machine shop.
Taking em out is one thing, Putting them back in is another. I'm glad I have a lathe and mill for custom installation tools to go with my hydraulic press. Properly installed bearings last!
Onward and Upward |
Bob Vandawalker (Rav221)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 10:09 am: | |
Shawn,
I had the same experience as Drdave. Had a bad bearing in a LeRoy-Somer generator head, local LeRoy-Somer authorized dealer wanted $350.00 for bearing and install (if I removed the housing). I bought the Timkin bearing myself and had a local machine shop install it. Total about $47.00.
If you don't think a bit out-of-the-box, you'll quickly go broke. |
Sammy (Sammy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 4:53 pm: | |
Shawn,
Remove the fan clutch assy and check it out.
Do an inspection to the unit first.There is a reason why there is play in the shaft.Try to locate the rebuilding procedure for it.Might be in one of your service manuals.Take it apart and look for the problem.
Bearings and seals are cheap.Bearings must be installed properly - the first time.You can always take it to your local truck parts house and show it to them.Ask if they can match up a replacement.
You don't have to buy everything from Neoplan.
Alot of parts are standard in the bus and truck industry.You found a very critical defect - before it caused a major problem.Best of luck with your repair. |
Sammy (Sammy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 4:57 pm: | |
Shawn, check this out-
:http://www.hortonww.com/company/profile.asp |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 12:40 pm: | |
Shawn, I suggest you forget it and just sell the bus to me!
Richard |
james dean boggs (Jd_boggs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 1:44 am: | |
Shawn-
Find out what engine and fan clutch it has. Find the model number of fan clutch and Google search the part number. Then call around the various bus/truck supply companies. Place an ad on this forum. Try the other forums also. Some truck parts stores watch this forum for a quick sale. I bought a rebuilt fan clutch for $100 from a total stranger! The electric fan idea is of last resort. And in the end you may spend more than $500 for the electric fan solution.
Good luck and keep posting information |