| Author | Message | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
Has anyone ever covered the roof of a GMC 4104 with white vinyl? If so, how did it turn out and how long did it last? How was maintenance on the vinyl and what did you use to clean and maintain the appearance? Did it make any difference in inside temps or noise in rain or hail. Please no dissertations or theories, I much prefer to hear from bus nuts who have actual experience with this. | ||
| mel 4104 Rating: N/A |
the questions that you should ask are can i afford it in cost of the material the time it will take to put it on and the time it will to take ot off. due to the corners on the 4104 you will have a very hard time to shape it to the curves and if you do not get it right on akk 4 corners it will look like ==== but you at least will be the talk of the bus people every time some one see your bus. the RV rigs have a time with their roofs as the sun heats and streches it the the cold weather shrinks it and cracks it and will ve a pain in the neck. i have never seen it on a bus however i did see it on an ols Airstream trailer and the owner tried to make it work and finnaly tried to take it off but after a bunch of time ane money he just gave up and scraped the trailer. his wife is still giving him what for and all the guys still ask him what you doing now and all laugh . but then do it you way it is your bus. | ||
| CRANE Rating: N/A |
Has anyone ever covered the roof of a GMC 4104 with white vinyl? NO! I COVERED THE ROOF WITH KOOLSEAL If so, how did it turn out and how long did it last? IT TURNED OUT GREAT. ALMOST NO (ZERO) MAINTENANCE. GUARANTEE FOR 10 YEARS BUT THE NEIGHBOR DID IT TO A RV 20 YEARS AGO AND STILL IN GOOD SHAPE. How was maintenance on the vinyl and what did you use to clean and maintain the appearance? KOOLSEAL NEEDS A LIGHT WASH/BRUSHING ONCE EVERY YEAR OR TWO. I AM GOING TO TRY A SEALER TO SEE IF IT STAYS CLEANER LONGER THOUGH DIRT IS NOT A PROBLEM Did it make any difference in inside temps or noise in rain or hail. ABSOLUTELY DROPPED TEMPS, YOU CAN FEEL THE DIFFERENCE EVEN AS YOU ARE APPLYING THE PRODUCT. IT DOES HAVE A MUFFLING AFFECT ON RAIN/HAIL Please no dissertations or theories, I much prefer to hear from bus nuts who have actual experience with this. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT Crane | ||
| CoryDane Rating: N/A |
Are you talking about vinyl like automotive vinyl tops??? Did not put vinyl on the bus, too much work.... I had a 76 Chevy Caprice, had a pure white vinyl top. It was a lot of work to clean. Had to use Comet Cleanser once a year, made it blinding white in the sun. Then had to treat it with a good sealer. Would last about a year with frequent washing with soap and water, then had to Comet Clean it again and reseal. I suppose the white top kept the car cooler but I didn't particularly notice it. Rain was somewhat muffled. In my opinion, which might get you a gum ball at the store, vinyl is a lot of work to clean and keep clean. The Comet Cleanser deal was told to me by a dealership body shop. Problem that you would have, is you can't let the Comet Cleanser get on the paint for much time or it will bleach it out too. Don't know how you can do that on a bus. The COMET was also rough on the seam threads in the vinyl top as well. I figured since I only did it once a year, the top should last. The top did, the threads did not, though it took 4 years befor they began to fray, must have been cheap twine, eh? If you go ahead with the vinyl top and want to know the process to Comet Clean it, let me know, its a real science. Do It Your Way, Yeah, right cd | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
gusc- Crane's right. The Kool Seal, and most all other rubber roofing material, does a great job. Our Georgie-Boy motorhome had it, and it was 80% cooler than the Winnie without it. It really deadens the sound of rain and hail, also. The RV roof was flat, but the material is used on curved roof RVs as well. Check with a local RV shop and get a price and the type of material they'd use... I'd go that route, if I wasn't so lazy and cheap. | ||
| CoryDane Rating: N/A |
I had used KS on my very old MALLARD motorhome. It had a flat roof with very little incline. It also had crappy seals at the edges with that aluminum bar over it. The alminum had a strip of colored vinyl in it to make it look pretty, but it didn't stop the leaks. I used the cloth for KS and covered the edges, right over the aluminum to the outside edges down to the mh siding. Also wrap the cloth around the stancheons, vents, anything that might leak. The cloth is saturated with KS as you roll the roof. Yeah, the coach gets noticably cooler inside. KS stopped all the leaks that the PO couldn't. I did the roof in 89 and lasted till I got rid of it this year. I got rid of it because it was falling apart but it still didn't leak. It had a couple of places where the aluminum sank into the frame, making a kinda bowl. Never was a problem after the KS application. I went up there with a hose and a brush once a year and scrubbed it to clean off the dirt. easy job. After you roll it on, it sort of has a vinyl like texture and the material is sort of rubbery after it cures. The thickness will be anywhere from 1/16 inch to 1/8 inch, depending on how you apply it. Never had a problem with KS coming loose or coming off. This seems to be more appropriate for your application and the closest to the look you are talking about. "NO, I don't sell the stuff, but it has been very good to me! :~) cd | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
So, I guess the answer is that nobody has tried white vinyl on a bus top. I was hoping to hear from someone with the actual experience of using it. I assume KS is a rubber compound of some sort but from all the complaints I've heard from sticks and staple owneres I don't think it is a very good idea. I sure see a lot of ads for rubber roof repair materials. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Gusc- Wow. How did you get a negative form all that positive? Rubber roofing is good, not bad. And you had one poster (crane) that said it was easy to apply and had great results. They have compounds that seal rubber roofs, and compounds that attempt to seal fiberglass and metal roofs. Does that mean you should ride with no roof at all? How about a nice shingled roof? There's some neat products from Bird shingles that can withstand 140 mph winds! That should be fine for your motorcoach. It doesn't sound like you wanted to put a rubber roof on your coach, and were looking for reasons to substantiate that decision. I don't think the comments would quite do that for you. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
The Kool Seal & other products for Leaky Teaky MH does have one problem. The stuff "chalks" , that is as it slowly breaks down over the years it leaves white streaks where rain water carries it off. If a tight roof is worth more than the bother of washing the coach , go for it! FAST FRED | ||
| CRANE Rating: N/A |
KS is not a rubber type roof that is applied in sheets. It is a thick liquid form you buy in a bucket and is applied with a roller. My experience is it adheres aggressivly. I never had it come up anywhere. What bad things did you hear? The only one I can admit to, sort of, is Fast Freds comment about chalking, but since I kept it pretty clean, I never really saw a problem. I guess if you want to be lazy, it could chalk. You seem to be wanting to put the vinyl on the roof, talk about something that has potential to come up. Well, you will need my Comet Cleanser cleaning instructions. Let me know when you need them and I'll be happy to post them. And I mean it sincerely, GOOD LUCK Crane | ||
| pete hyser (4501pete)
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Ok..I'm a roofer..read up please. The Vinyl, If it is put down in a "sheet" you have to get every single air bubble out of it and the glue you use better be able to bond to the surface already there..and THAT surface better be perfect! Look at the vinyl tops going down the road..1 small bubble turns to a bigger bubble and off it goes and im not even considering how you will tie off and finish the edges....Try THAT on a 40 foot bus and figure out the liability of the sheet hitting the 6 cars behind you. We have enough trouble getting that stuff to adhear to a substrate on a roof. Plus...THEY CHALK TOO. KS, I have used Elastomerics for 16 years.Thats all I do. Once coated onto the bus roof there are no bubbles to lift up..it is a fully adheared system, no human error..or negligible..just make the surface clean by powerwashing.98% reflective in the first year ..goes down to about 85% within 5 years.. CHALK? Yes..but if you wash the rig once a year..like most of us are anal about...this wil remove the chalking for some time..i do it all the time.AND the chalk will wash off as well. Please let me know where you are driving so i wont be in the same state..lol Sorry to pee on your parade Gusc..but its dangerous to say the least Pete | ||
| Chuck Conrad
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I put Kool Seal on a 4104 that I kept for at least another 10 years. I had no problems with the roof after the application. Previously, it would leak during a rain while traveling 70 mph. It also noticably inslulated the roof, lowering the temperature inside. Kool Seal did a very good job of sealing up seams and rivets on the old bus and the end result looked quite good. It wasn't that hard to put on either, but I suggest getting the roof as clean as possible before applying the stuff. If you wash the roof every now and then, you won't be bothered by chalking. I give it high marks. It is an easy "do it yourself" weekend job to apply, assuming you don't fall off of the roof. :-) | ||
| pete hyser (4501pete)
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yea well...i didnt say i was a healthy roofer..lol i was spraying the stuff on a roof near boston..thats what i slipped on and off i went..so dont get it on your boots or step in it..off like greased pig.. pete | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
Ease off guys, I wasn't asking what kind of roof to put on a bus, I asked about vinyl. I didn't even ask if I should put vinyl on my bus!! If you look over the posts you won't find a single one from anyone who actually has put vinyl on a bus. I don't mean to sound negative, and I'm not, but nobody has addressed my question. These posts are all answers to "what kind of roof should I put on my bus?". Please, has anyone ever put a vinyl roof on a bus, that's all I'm asking? I guess my pet peeve on this forum is the number of opinions received to a question but very few posts from people with actual experience Pete, What is a Elastomeric?. I remember seeing vinyl tops on cars that were awful looking things but that was 20-30 years ago, I don't see that anymore on new cars. I have a '77 Lincoln Continental with a dove gray vinyl Landeau top in perfect condition. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Wow. (memo to one's self: don't reply to gusc's questions) | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"I guess my pet peeve on this forum is the number of opinions received to a question but very few posts from people with actual experience ." When NO-ONE in the world of busdome has ever done what you wish to attempt, perhaps other OPINIONS could be usefull. Most folks respond to YOU , and to the 75% that are lurkers wondering about converting & conversions. Do it your way, FAST FRED | ||
| pete hyser (4501pete)
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Gusc, An Elastomeric is a liquid roof coating, a rubberized paint that deflects with the metal it is on. It was designed to be put on metal roofs where expansion and contraction occures. Perfect for a bus because of the movement. I understand about the vinyl. I answered the question because of being a roofer and having 30 years experience with both epdm,vinyl and roof coatings along with cedar,slate,tile,asphals..ect.. I know of 1 bus, a 1949 ford converted schoolbus that has a membrane roof on it. He is a good friend. he is a builder and he did it himself, it is in the lower,back section of this rig. there is no place the wind can hit the leading edge only the side edges and has had a ton of problems.he has said(while at an event fixing it) he would never do it again. no one else i know or any bus i have seen has had a vinyl roof on it. i answered the q cause of the experience..so if i offended you by not answering the q properly..im sorry..i just dont want anyone to go to those lengths and have something happen to their rigs or someone behind them Pete | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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nobody has mentioned traping moisture between the vinol & the roof... | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Why would you want to do that? | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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not some you WANT to do...look at the rust under vinol roofs of cars... | ||
| pete hyser (4501pete)
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the air was just one of the probs..i thought zapping the poor slob behind you with a 40X15 foot chunk of vinyl roof was bad enough..lmao | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Gus - Here's a pic of the only bus I've ever seen with a vinyl top on it, albeit a partial treatment. Sorry the tree's in the way, can't always get the "best shot". . .  This pic was taken in April of 1995 at the MAK convention in Laughlin, NV. Coach used to be owned by the late John Mancebo of Fresno, who operated Allstate Charter Lines. This was his "baby". . . FWIW, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Well, that didn't work. . . let's try again  | ||
| pete hyser (4501pete)
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now rj....THATS a rig Gusc..is that what you had in mind? | ||
| Cory Dane Rating: N/A |
NO! I have not ever put vinyl on my bus, or any other roof. Sheesh! cd | ||
| Kevin Black (Kblackav8or)
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E-gadd. If you are talking about the textured stuff on cars, I can only think that you would end up parked by yourself most of the time. If you are talking a some sort of rubberized roofing or sealing membrane, that is another story. Lots of options there. Some work very well at keeping out moisture and are quite durable. Busses being tall will be exposed to branches and other things that may scrape or otherwise damage something like that. | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
Pete, What is a membrane roof? RJ, Thanks, that is quite a rig. Is the vinyl the light gray part, it is kind of hard to tell for sure? FF, I doubt that no-one has ever done it, in fact I would be amazed if no-one has! I said nothing about attempting it, all I asked was does anyone have any experience with a vinyl roof on a 4104. Kevin, Why would having a vinyl roof cause me to be parked by myself? I don't understand why this is such a touchy subject with some of you guys, I thought it was a pretty straightforward question. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Gus - Yes, the light grey is the padded (!) vinyl that Mancebo had done to his coach. Starts in front, down the sides, and wraps up over the roof. IIRC, the coach was a Kingsley conversion, but I don't know who did the vinyl. Last I heard, the coach was based in San Jose, CA. Might be able to find out what's happened to it, if you're interested. RJ | ||
| pete hyser (4501pete)
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Gusc.. A membrane roof os a full sheet. 15 x 40 or however you want to cut it...it needs a termination bar to seal it off(screwed into the roof and sides). the sheet..in not totally fastened down(100% glued with no air bubbles) irt will peel off. Think of this...imagine a vinyl roof on a car ripping off and hitting the car behind it...now...think of a 15 x 40 foot sheet.. UNLESS...you are talking about the thing RJ is talking about and showed..alittle patch to make it look good. For functionality,performance and durability...id use the Koolseal or an Elastomeric roof coating..thats really the only way to seal it to make it last and take the beating that a bus roof will take | ||
| motorcoach1
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as for your answer yes we padded a roof on a small bus to turn it in to a limo . we used lockweld contact cement sprayd on in 3 coats and added the 1/2 in foam underlayment, (nonrot carpet grade) and 3 coats of spray again and natulux vynil. seal your molding real good water leaks are a bad thing under vynil. my preveious workings with it was at Chriscraft when they put natulux in their houseboats we did the warrenty replacements. personaly i would not do it but if you need it for a short time 5 years for looks it will di the trick. i did old canvas decks and roofs on very old boats thats very different instalation. for what its worth |