| Author | Message | ||
| Steve Zona (Highwayrunner)
Rating: N/A |
Hi everyone. the question is , when plumbing a vent stack through the roof, for the grey and black tanks, can I run just one stack with both tanks connected ? or do I need two vent pipes through the roof? as always any help is always greatly appreciated Steve and Cindi mc9 | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Steve, Code and practicality may vary, but that notwithstanding I only use one vent for both and have never had any problem. I did join the two vent lines together 4-5 feet above the tank tops, so there is no chance of either spilling over into the other. Also I cut the outside pipe at a 45 degree angle aiming the opening backwards so it creates a bit of a venturi vacuum while underway. This keeps a slight vacuum on the tanks so when someone flushes the pottie while moving, air goes in to the pottie instead of stink coming out into the cabin. Works for me Gary | ||
| J.C.B. (Eagle)
Rating: N/A |
When joining both tanks to one vent pipe the gray tank joint to the vent pipe must be higher than the kitchen or bath sink traps for it to work. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
J.C.B. (Eagle) Said, When joining both tanks to one vent pipe the gray tank joint to the vent pipe must be higher than the kitchen or bath sink traps for it to work. That's if you have a combined riser that also serves as the drain path. I thimk... My tanks have a combined 2 inch vent pipe up through the roofline and don't use the same line for actual drains. I have a separate tank entrance for the drains from the sinks and they have p-traps on them well above the floor level. I still have the option of adding another roof vent if my testing shows that I need it. I think that was along the line of the question???? | ||
| JR
Rating: N/A |
One vent will work. My vents exit directly from the tanks, and are not part of the drain system. Combining the vents and drains may, as JCB states, cause issues. I don't know. A typical RV vent is 2". I used one vent that's teed into both black and grey, and the tee is well below the sink and shower p traps and it works fine. No odors, no problems. I've got an RV cap on the vent stack. Keeps rain and critters out. While I keep the black and grey water separated, I have valves that will combine them if necessary. No harm at all to do this. Some coaches only have one tank. The only benefit for two tanks is one may get away with dumping grey water on the ground (properly treated of course)...can't dump black water. You'll create a lot more grey water than black. Never be an issue either way if you frequent campgrounds...we go to a lot of places that have no camping amenities. Surprising how fast 55 gallon grey tanks will fill up without conservation. | ||
| Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A |
Steve, Mine has just one vent, been that way for a few years without a problem. It is teed in to both tanks on top of the tanks (2"). I agree with DrDave & JR you should be fine with one vent. If you only use one tank it is HIGHLY recommended that the black & grey water enter into the tank (ONLY on top of the tank). That is supposed to help with the black and grey water mix not backing up any grey water path. Does that make sense?? Also you can check out code ANSI A119.2 Dale | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A |
Not an ANSI Ruling, but EPA says you may not dump grey water (treated or not) anywhere. Along the same lines, if you spill fuel (diesel or gasoline) or lube oil )includes around a boat dock,) you cannot use soap solutions to dilute it, or clean it up. New fines for this range up $25,000.00. Petrochemical spills are to be removed by digging up the contaminated soil and sending it to a treatment/disposal facility. Extensive whistle blower fees are available too!!!. ...JJ | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
Yikes $25,000 I wonder what the fine for farting is? Good ole EPA. | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
How come you can't drain soapy water (grey water) on the ground, but you can wash your house, car, horse or dog? (Things to make you go "Hhmmmmm") | ||
| Jim Stewart (H3jim)
Rating: N/A |
Jim Bob, Grey water also contains shower water, and there are lots of bugs that come off your body, many more than just washing your hands. Thats what they are trying to protect us from. | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Jim I have some trouble believing that too. Not to be a smartass, but can you give me ANY reference to back that up? IF that is the case, then I guess you are saying that it is ok to dump grey water anyplace you choose, as long as you have not showered or if you plum the shower water into the black tank? This could get real interesting. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
It's the truth. It doensn't take a whole lot of fecal matter in water to create some nasty bugs, and when you take a shower, that stuff is there to go down the drain. Much more practical... have any of you ever simply smelled grey water coming out of an RV? All it would take would be once and you'd immediately understand why you shouldn't dump it on the ground. It's just as nasty if not worse than black water. Try it, you'll "get it" immediately....  | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
Regulations concerning dumping wastewater are regulated by each state individually - the State health dept. can inform you of the requirements in your state - some local authorities can legislate a requirement more stringent than the state's if they can demonstrate a need for such additional requirement - In Florida you can handle certain types of grey water differently than black water - but in no case does florida allow "dumping" it on the ground or reservoirs not designed to accept it - HTH - Niles | ||
| Jim Stewart (H3jim)
Rating: N/A |
Don, You got me there, I do not have a reference, and I doubt that any exist. Municipalities don't justify their regs, they just make them and enforce them. I was trying to shed some light on the logic of no grey dumping, and with shower water, its really not that clean, not like washing your hands. Thank you Gary, thats exactly what I am talking about. No, I don't think its ok to dump anywhere if you don't shower. maybe if you had yet another separate tank, or as you say, put teh sower water into the black tank, but you'd play hell trying to convince an authority of the difference and why their rule should not apply. I personally do try to dump in all proper places, but in the middle of the desert, I think its ok. Never for black however. | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
For years I have asked my guests to please dump grey water on my grass, conserves my water (bet Las Vegas would not have water rationing if they done that too)! As for the smell, it only smells because you have kept it in a dark warm place for some time, fresh hand washing water don't smell except for the perfume in the handsoap. How about if you use disenfectant soap, would it be alright then? As you can see, as an old fart I have trouble with some of the new rules, that seem to correct a problem that never was. By the same token, I love to learn! | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
If you are in the "older" generation, you will recall for years no RV had a grey water tank, just a pipe outside the RV. Worked for years, no troubles, and I have yet to hear of someone getting dead because someone dumped their washwater on the ground. As for shower water being the most deadly, as late as 1995 at least, some major brand RV's came with an outside shower as a extra! (but I guess it was illegal to use it) | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
Yikes I am screwed. I took lots of baths when I was a kid. I must have been sitting some really nasty stuff. I bet the EPA will tell me that I will get cancer because of it. Or they will just ban baths and swimming in lakes. | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Good heavens! Please share with us what lake you rinsed off all that fecal matter in, I bet people are in great danger! Need to get the EPA out there quickly! | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL= Ch0513/SEC08.HTM&Title=->2005->Ch0513->Section%2008#0513.08 Sorry we hijacked your thread Steve - Niles | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
The lake is going to have to be drained and the lake bed burned. I was not the only kid swimming in it. lots of kids did, and probably still do. The EPA will have a team there tomorrow to fine all the kids for having a childhood. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Well when you take a shower outside, the water evaporates pretty quickly and nothing has much of a chance to grow. When you shower and stick it in a dark tank full of dish scrubbings and tons of other "food", bacteria can (and will) grow like crazy, and a lot of them are not friendly bacteria. They stink so then you dump in some stuff that kills everything to make it smell better, and now you really have a toxic mess. Grey water stored and dumped later is a very different beast than the water put on the ground from an outside shower... So Don, it can go both ways. I actually plumbed my first bus so shower water could be routed directly to the street, and if the bus was moving I'd take a shower and drain it on the road as the wife drove, because I didn't have a very big holding tank and that helped a lot. But as soon as shower water sits in a tank for more than even a little bit, it's a different story and I'd never put it anywhere but an official dumpstation or sewer. Fortunately my current bus has 150 gallons worth of sewage space, so it's no longer an issue for me. I just dump it all at a dumpstation and that's that... | ||
| Steve Zona (Highwayrunner)
Rating: N/A |
just a quick thanks to all who replied and helped,and, just for grins, I don't dump my grey water on the ground. and I don't swim in lakes, and I don't shower outside, and now i have a one hundred gallon black water tank and a one hundred gallon grey water tank. and they are vented properly. and yes they are also plumbed so I can add grey water to the black tank or just flush black tank with grey, when dumping. what a great group Steve and Cindi 82mc9 | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Gary- "water stored and dumped later is a very different beast than the water put on the ground..." And -that-, Gary.... Is exactly why I decided not to have any holding tanks at all. Instead, we'll allow every ounce of waste to drop directly from the drain to the ground. Flushing is soooo much easier that way also! ( I wish all conversion problems were that easy to solve!) | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh)
Rating: N/A |
Just in case anyone thinks the dangers of grey water are bad, here in NH I saw a septic tank pumper truck spraying his load of raw sewage (that's black tank stuff) on an open field. Checking with the State, it is perfectly legal to dump raw sewage this way on land that is above the water table. All they need is a sign posted for 3 days before and 3 days after that sewage is on the ground. Soooo, don't tell me or the State of NH that this stuff is all that bad. Just ain't so after 3 days in the open. Just so you know. Jim | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Hmmm, Jim, I wonder what the guys in Chicago on that boat under that bridge though about this? I guess three days isn't too long.... oops I shouldn't have said anything... the bus driver forgot to post his sign... | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
John, you have read, absorbed, and learned. From that comes the best solution of all!! | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Well, Don..... The idea is ok... but that solution can really stink... Depends on what I eat, I guess? | ||
| JR
Rating: N/A |
This subject has been well covered except for one issue...smell. Neither black nor grey water will have (grey has none with tx) much odor if treated with RV holding tank products. I'll guaruntee someone camping near you is dumping grey water at night and any time it rains...and no one knows. Ever seen a garden hose attached to a dump valve? I don't suggest doing this, but expect that it is happening. I've never dumped grey water from my coach (110 gals combined and just two of us), but I did when I had a 5th wheel. Grey tank gets full...S*#% happens. Properly treated waste that is not allowed to ferment for for weeks won't smell. Another good habit is to add a couple gallons of water to both holding tanks and treat both tanks when empty. Then they are ready to use and will remain odor free during downtime. Now I've got to go doo something about my horses...they are out of EPA compliance! | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A |
Grey tanks have more than showers in them. A high concentration of soap is part of the problem, as it leaches into the drinking aquifer quite quickly. Bleach, RV tank deodorant (yup, that too, especially the formadehyde stuff) hand cleaners, food waste that becomes putrid, shower cleaning chemicals, etc. The list of junk in a grey tank is quite long. Years ago there were far fewer Rv's than now. Can you imagine a jamboree of hundreds of buses all indiscriminatley dumping thousands of gallons of contaminated water in YOUR local water table??? How about at the state park where you and your kids swim in the run-off into the local lake or pond? I'm not a "Bunny- Hugger" by any means, but the time has come (and none too soon) for this regulation! Clean potable water is already a national problem in many areas, with some states already passing legislation to stop their water from being exported to adjoining states. Cheers...JJ | ||
| JR
Rating: N/A |
This will be my last post on this subject, but, to be fair, JJ has a point regarding state and federal campgrounds. The feds and state campground employees are anal about dumping anything anywhere that is non-permitted..and that is everywhere. DON'T LOSE ANY FLUIDS IN A STATE OR FEDERAL CAMPGROUND. Unless you are at a dump station or they have site sewer connections...no dumping is serious business in state and federal parks. They'll burn you a new orifice if they see this. You'll end up paying for digging up the desert! Private campgrounds are not likely to bother, but big brother will. Most upscale campgrounds have service at each site so end of discussion. This has been interesting! JR | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
So, somehow when we coop it up in a tank and let it ferment, then dump it and the black stuff into an "authorized" septic tank with a leech field or laterals, somehow it does NOT go into the aquifer? Must be magic! Maybe the same magic that makes it ok to rinse your feces directly to the ground in an outside shower, and it is OK, but stand INSIDE the coach and let it drain thru two feet of pipe, then it is a terrible toxic disease filled illegal mess. I guess I just don't believe in magic. | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Phrannie has a full page on the care and feeding of waste tanks. Beware of the chemical treatments of waste tanks as they can really mess up dump sites. Many jurisdictions are considering cancelling rest area dump stations because of the "bad" s*** that people put in their poop to cancel the smell. Read Phrannie's page to see why this shouldn't be so! www.phrannie.org Marc Bourget | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Don, if you want to stir up some more trouble just address the initial question and tell everyone how we did our tank vents. On second thought, maybe not. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Hey Don- "I guess I just don't believe in magic." HAR!! Me neither. "Do bears ship in the woods?" Is it toxic? I guess if enough do at the same spot.... And that's why I dump while going over a bridge? | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
This thread reminds me of when we lived near Portland OR. When it rains hard the sewer system gets overwhelmed and overflows. You can see all the &^*@ spilling into the Willamette river. Of course the city does not fine itself and send the mayor to jail. If I had a houseboat that dumped the wastewater into the river I bet they would fine me and throw me in jail. Seems more like a political issue rather than a health issue. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
The fruit and veggies imported from foreign countries may have had human waste used for fertilizer... Mmm-mmm - - mm-mm good. (izat a banana? oops) | ||
| Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A |
I know this off topic to first question. As with my dad, brother & myself and all dairy farmer empty winter holding pen of manure onto manure spreader. Then go to field to spread manure (fertilizer) to be ready for future crop. It that simple period. We always wash our hands & face before meal as always. I am going on 68 soon & still humming so far, Praise the Lord! Animals & birds do it everyday to fertilize their crop. FWIW Sojourn for Christ, Jerry | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Good Grief Chuck, pipe down! We sure don't want to get that started here in this bunch of contributors. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
Dumping raw sewage (black or grey) in areas where the surface water is located proximate to the aquifer (florida for instance) or where it will runoff directly into an upstream source for potable water is hazardous and costly (as advanced treatment is required) - dumping a bit of grey water in a desert or sandy soil (dig a hole first)is far different than dumping uphill of a stream or in hydric soils with shallow surficial waters The reference to septage spreading is an accepted way to remove 'treated' solids accumulation from any wastewater treatment facility as those solids have already been 'treated' by on-site sanitary systems or advanced wastewater treatment facilities - septic systems are not just 'storage tanks' they actually treat the sewage anaerobically - rendering the sediment almost inert - its not magic, but scientific design whereby bacteria breaks down the waste, much as in your stomach, in a more advanced fashion rendering the remiander as assimilable by the environment The waste product of cows etc. contains a high content of un/partially digested organic matter, which is certainly not as toxic as your grey water tank, and very readily assimilated back into the environment It would be more advantageous and convenient to the RVer's and the public if all states were like Alaska - where all fuel stations are required to provide FREE dump stations at every location - you don't drive in AK and get his with a roadside "awkward" odor HTH - Niles | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Niles, Not disagreeing with your point but for the sake of accuracy . . . I think you meant bacteria in your intestine. The only stomach bacteria I've heard about is the stuff that contributes to stomach ulcers. Too acidic for the rest of the intestinal "flora" Onward and Upward. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks, Marc - I guess you can see why I flunked out of med school - LOL - also *his=hit | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Someone once said that they pumped the grey water into thier main exhaust system while going down the road. I saw that a while back but the fumes from my grey water tank have erased my memory... heheeeheee.... | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
That seems like a hot idea, surely the little bugs ought to be well cooked by the time they reach the end of THAT trip! Anybody out there actually tried that or doing it? | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
I have a Holiday Rambler motor home with a factory installed system to pump grey water into the exhaust. (We don't use it & I don't think it works now). When I posted about grey water vs house, dog & car washing water I should have clarified the application. Our bus has a combined black/grey tank. The grey water system was originally plumbed so it can either go into the black tank or bypass it & go directly on the ground as it is created. We bypass onto the ground when parked at home, at friend's homes (with permission, of course) and going down the road. In fact, everywhere except Wal Mart & campgrounds. We definitely would not do this if the grey water was in a tank for some period of time. | ||
| Dale MC8
Rating: N/A |
Dumping Gray water while going down the road is not lawful, at least in Calif. Only water legal to hit the road while driving is fresh water. This law was designed to allow loads of dirt, gravel, sawdust, etc. to be wet down so it wouldn't blow off the carrier. Of course, real world. FYI Dale | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
I am not so sure that exhausting it is the same thing as dumping it. Seems like it is about the same as letting it evaporate! | ||
| jimmci9 #2 Rating: N/A |
my holiday rambler motor home (1977 imperial 5000) also has the factory installed exhaust dumping system.. switches on the dash light up like it migh work, but the line has been plugged off... it was "injected" right ahead of the muffler... | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Just run hose to the windshield washer pump. Who's gonna' know what you're washing your window with? Ya'know.. Any liquid being discharged from the bus to the ground is going to be looked upon as filth. Not a good impression to leave. A bus conversion is a bus conversion to the general public, and the stigma will be carried upon all our shoulders. I ain't poifuct, but hell, I don't want to be considered more degenerate than I already am. |