| Author |
Message |
Larry K Dixon (Larry_d)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 2:58 pm: | |
Well here I am again the tail lights came on and I can't turn them off without using the master switch outside. I still use the toggle swiches, the tail light toggle is a 3 way with 8 spades on the back. The switch is the only thing I can think of going wrong. Can not find one in this small berg in OR. Lights are still 24 Volt---- any ideas would be thanked muchly larry |
Richard 4905
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 3:46 pm: | |
If your parking brakes are on the tail lights will be on as long as the master swich is on. |
Larry K Dixon (Larry_d)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 7:24 pm: | |
Richard the only park brake that i have is the air switch I pull on after putting in Neutral. Have never seen this happen before. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 7:37 pm: | |
Larry -
"the tail light toggle is a 3 way with 8 spades on the back. "
What are the 3 switch positions for? It may help figuring out what's
not right, for anyone reading this.
(On the MC9, if the parking brake is set and the bus is running,
the brake lights light.) |
Larry K Dixon (Larry_d)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 8:48 pm: | |
John the toggle center is off to the left is CL ID LPS (thinking CL is clearance ID is identification LPS lamps) the other side is LIGHTS. I have not checked but think to left is all marker lites and right is all lites including tail. I am sure it is the tail lites on because the dim elliment is burning. It uses a separate toggle for headlites most of these seem to original. Thank you for helping larry |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 9:07 pm: | |
Couple more questions:
Are the tail lights and brake lights in the same lens assembly?
Are the tail lights on when the engine is off, or just when the
engine is on?
Are the tail lights lit regardless of switch position and regardless
if engine is on or off?
After you use the master disconnect to turn them off, do they
go back on (and stay on) when you turn the power on, or only
when you turn the lights back on? |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 9:38 pm: | |
By now, there has got to be at least one 4905 owner that
can chime in?
I don't know about a 4905, but usually there's a relay that
controls the lights, with a switch that controls that relay.
A poor ground anyplace in that circuit, a defective switch
or a defective relay could be the cause of lights staying lit.
Since you're only experiencing the problem with the tail lights,
and you say the tail and markers are all controlled by the same
switch (and relay?), it seems to me, that you might want to look
for a poor or missing ground at the tail light/brake light assembly
(since you already suggested the same assembly and dual element
bulb is for the tail lights and brake lights).
Without a ground, the energy may be passing through one
filament (brake light) into the other (dim) one (taillight), and with
enough energy to keep either relay tripped.
With the switch and bus off.... instead of turning the main off
to turn out the taillight, try removing the bulbs from both
taillights and then replacing them. If the replaced bulbs stay
off, take voltage measurements to ground from each of the
bulb contacts, and between the contacts. No voltage should
be present.
With the bulbs replaced, the bus and lights on, take a good
ground lead and ground the lamp assembly. See if the lights
get brighter. Or use your volt meter to see if you have voltage
from the lamp assembly ground to the chassis ground. If there
is, you have a bad ground at the lens assembly. |
j.l.vickers
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 10:49 pm: | |
Tail lights on a 4905 are seperate from the brake lights.
Let me check the 1975- 4905 wire chart and see what connections are on the switch.
Call Luke he will have a switch.
JLV
P8M4905A-738 |
Larry K Dixon (Larry_d)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 11:39 pm: | |
John & J I
I think a new tailgate was installed with new style lites marker tail-brake and turn.
Tail & brake in same assembly. 2 tail-brake lites oneach side & seperate turn signals one on each side
Tail lites are on with engine running or shut off.
Tail lites are on reqardless of switch position.
After master turned off lites comeon when master turned on. When bulbs removed and replaced tail lites come on.
Tho bus has been mostly converted the drivers part is basicly unchanged, except for a stone-bennett shifter and the air park brake handle. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 1:02 am: | |
Hmmmm
"Tail lites are on reqardless of switch position. After master
turned off lites come on when master turned on. When bulbs
removed and replaced tail lites come on. "
Try removing one bulb, then the other. Let us know if the
lights go out, and on, with either one.
It sounds like either a ground problem, or a mistake in the
wiring of the opposing lights (tailight to brake and vice-versa) of each side. |
Larry K Dixon (Larry_d)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 2:26 am: | |
John I have about decided I should be able to put a multi meter on some of the spades on the switch and gain some info. I'm not much on elect. but if i think about it enough should be able to find something. We have had this coach about 2 mos. and 3K miles and I just happened to walk aaround it this morning and find the tail lites on. When I first got it I had to rewire a car dolly and had fits with it also because the wires to the plug were one wire to brake lite one to turn and one to tail rather than having brake and turn combined. Larry |
Cliff (Floridacracker)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 6:03 am: | |
Larry,
If your wiring is still stock, The tail lights are controlled from the CL LPS/HEADLIGHT switch on the right of the drivers dash panel. The output of the switch feeds to connection block position #20(yellow-red stripe wire). So if you put the switch in the center position and still have voltage at #20, you need a new switch.
Cliff
1975 4905A-1160 |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 9:24 am: | |
Larry -
"I had to rewire a car dolly and had fits with it also because
the wires to the plug were one wire to brake lite one to turn
and one to tail rather than having brake and turn combined."
Cliff and Richard are probably right about that switch being bad,
but it appears you have a few things going on here. If that switch
is turning off everything except the tail lights, remove the tail light
lead from the switch, and see if they go out. Then see if you
have voltage at that now empty switch lug. If not, see if you
have voltage on that tail light lead while it's not connected to
the switch. I'd wager you're going to find it energized.
You might want to undo that trailer plug and leave all the wires
apart from one another while you try to track this problem down.
Keep in mind, that most buses will have their brake lights come
on whenever the parking brake is set and the engine is on. Even
with the engine off, if the parking brake's been set, that circuit
is still complete. Add voltage to a faulty circuit and if it shares
a common path, strange things will happen... And tying the turn
signal to the brake light at the trailer connection may not be
the best idea. My turn signals are separate from the brake lights,
and I thought most truck/buses were like that...?
Lotsa' luck!
Oh, by the way..... At Home Depot, Lowes and Sears, they
have a real handy combination of tools that can help locate wires
and circuits. It's usually used for telephone work (to identify wires),
but can be used on any circuit as long as there's no voltage on it
while you test. It's a small signal (tone) generator and an induction
probe. You put a signal on the wire you want to locate (at the
rear of the bus), and hold the probe near the bunch of wires
at the front. The probe will indicate which wire has the tone on
it, helping you identify the circuit. They call it a "wire tracer",
and the price is fairly reasonable. It's one of the handiest tools
I have. |
j.l.vickers
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 9:45 am: | |
Is the stop lamp tell tail light (on)on the dash?
If so it might have DD3 stop light relay might be sticking closed and this will cause the brake lights to stay on. |
Larry K Dixon (Larry_d)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 11:54 am: | |
John & J. L. Thanks I should be able to look futher into this today but think I will call Luke and get another switch coming also. thanks for all the help well have house chores now thanks again larry |
Larry K Dixon (Larry_d)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 11:59 am: | |
Cliff our buses are close mine is 4905A-831
thanks larry |
j.l.vickers
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 2:48 pm: | |
P8M4905A-831
From GMC to Evergreen Stage Lines #151 (Portland,OR)11/74
jlv |
Cliff (Floridacracker)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 7:25 am: | |
Larry,
John MC9 make a good point. If there has been any modification I would pull the wire feeding #20 and see if voltage is still there. You could be getting a back feed from the new tailgate wiring or something else.
I found alot of "creative wiring" on mine when I first bought it. The term "Git ur done" was apparently heard alot at the bus garage.
Good Luck,
Cliff
1975 4905A-1160 |
Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 10:05 pm: | |
Larry My 4905 lights are controlled ny a single toggle on the right side. I turn to the left and I get parking lights and middle is off and right is on with headlights included. If you can't find the problem call Bill at U.S.Coach. He talked me through some electrical problems over the phone four years ago and I have not had a problem since with the problem. One thing I would suspect is whatever was done to connect the toad or trailer. One question I would ask is if you have converted to 12 volt on the outside. Might be a source of trouble. Mike4905 |