| Author | Message | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
Who wants to take on a research project? Here's the query: Only two vehicles remain on the earth. Person 'A' drives 15,000 miles a year in his 6 cyl NA gasser late model Honda/Toyota. Person 'B' drives 5,000 miles a year in his 6 cyl NA 2-stroke diesel. Both vehicles are started, warmed and driven at 60MPH for almost all of the mileage. Question: How much does A or B 'pollute' more than the other? | ||
| Aincal Rating: N/A |
What does it mater. There won't be any fuel for them anyway. | ||
| Jim Stewart (H3jim)
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If there are only two vehicles left, who cares? | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Youse guys are attacking the irrelevant part of and incomplete hypothetical! LOL! What's your definition of pollution? The combustion products are similar but different depending on what you stress for criteria. You fail to mention if the respective engines are of the same displacement and smog equipment on the diesel, etc. I'm sure you seek a comparison of the two combustion processes but failing to specify so leaves too much room for mischief in a "real" answer as well as the "quips" Need more info. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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Marc, I *knew* you would be among the professors giving me grief for this question. LOL! I also know it's a very complex issue that can't be answered simply but thought someone might have a 'dumbed down' answer so I can retort to the yuppies who scowl at me.  ...the board needs livening - use any hypotheticals you want... | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A |
I'm assuming we're NOT talking about a 3 liter gasser vs. a 6v92 (9 liters). The late model gasser will have much tighter emissions controls on it. The catalytic converter alone would make it a very unfair contest... even with the 3:1 advantage. From what I've read, gas combustion releases more greenhouse gasses, diesel releases more particles (smog) and NOx. BUT, diesel also requires more oil and releases more emissions to refine the fuel in the first place. http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/04-12/diesel-vs-gasoline-article.htm http://www.nett.ca/faq_diesel.html Perhaps a "mo-better" comparision is travelling in a bus RV vs. traditional airplane/hotel travel. Like, which mode of travel uses/ abuses more natural resources: fuel, emissions, water, elec., etc. Anyone care to do a tailpipe test on a 707? Anyone seen a more frugal water user than an RVér? This may well put your yuppie neighsayers in their proper places. bb | ||
| gg04
Rating: N/A |
according to that article times have really changed..have been out for 23 years.and my last tour at a refinery for fuel was with KM in the early 70's after I got back from Vietnam..got into lubrication and pm programs.. really haven't kept up..the old cat cracker plants put out diesel-home heating oil,white gas as the first product followed by kerosene, and with more passes refining the bases for leaded gas and lubricating oil...course this was a long time before low sulphur...gonna have to run down to chevrons refinery and talk with the pe engineering staff..Makes me want to know the truth.gg04 | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
OK, you dancin-around-the-question politicians, I took time away from working on the coach  to do the research. Based on the above criteria, my coach 'pollutes' about as much as two cars in any given timeframe. I can easily live with that. So there. I had to do the research anyway. Dangit, thought I'd get ya'll to do the work for me... LOL | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A |
OK OK, gimme some time, now. Here's my research. The first three cars are/were mine, and were tested here in CO for smog. All gasoline models. The busses I've owned got an opacity test that was basically meaningless (and $75 to boot), with no real data... pass or fail. So, for the 6v92 data I found this article online: http://www.windsorworkshop.ca/downloads/RalphNine.PDF The numbers I plugged into the spreadsheet were an average of three busses, both with and without catalytic converters.  Very, very telling data, IMHO. The Subaru was running WAY to rich, obviously. A smogged DD can hold its own in CO against a modern gas 4-banger... but spews out 10 times more w/o a cat. conv. No contest in HC, though. 10 times worse with cat. conv. and 22x worse w/o one. NOx is BAD for the DD, with and without the cat. conv. 100x worse, at least. What were you basing your research on, Chuck? Just curious. HTH, bb | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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You guys just have too much time on your hands!! Richard | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
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I hope my 8v71n bus is the last one running and it helped kill the Ozone. Im now going to cut down some trees and then go kill a whale. Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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Don't forget to club some baby seals to death on your way - Seriously, did you find any data about emissions w/ VO or WVO? Niles | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"and it helped kill the Ozone." Ozone depletion was just another con by the neo-nilists. IF ALL the Ozone were removed from the atmosphere , the effect would be the same on you as moving 100 miles further south. Many folks run 1300 miles south every winter (works for me) with no aparent harm, and visit folks that LIVE constantly 1300miles south. The Ozone Hole blither was to get rid of F-12 , at 35c a lb. and replace it with crap that runs 15 to 25 % less efficently . Worry about energy use ? Worry about all that energy used to operate with a less efficent refrigerant. Or worry about Gasahol , that reduces the fuel milage by percentage of the content of alcohol. 200,000,000 cars getting 10% poorer milage ia a HECK of a lot of fuel!! Follow da Money,........ADM 5 Billion , Farm Lobby Welfare 175 Billion EVERY YEAR FAST FRED | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Rating: N/A |
LOL, funny responses! This isn't one of those things I'm anal about, unlike most things bus-related. (I mean who else would stand in Sams Club comparing antifreeze ingredients) I just wanted a seat-of-the-pants ballpark idea, as I had absolutely no concept of the differences. So, I found the EPA Federal emission standards for both Cars and Heavy-Duty Truck / Bus Engines for 1988 and compared. HDT/Bus Diesels were about 6x higher for most categories in 1988, just doing a quick visual scan, no calculators involved. If you drive a typical auto 3x as many miles, total 'spew-out' would then be about double for a diesel as for a car in any given timeframe. I did NOT want to overanalyze this, and fully know that big-time arguments could be the result, but really, I don't care that much, I just wanted a clue. Yes, I know my DD is older than 1988 and is almost certainly worse than this, but really, this knowledge is more than enough for this kid... | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
So.... If I drive my bus conversion at night, would it be deemed as producing nocturnal emissions? | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
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LOL, John. Just driving my bus to points unknown is a wet dream for moi.  Emissions be danged... bb | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Wow. And I thought the view at Long Key state park was good.... The sunset at Point Loma must be awsome! | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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An unnamed source confirms that restricting emissions to those of the nocturnal variety allows indiscriminate dispersal much like passing wind in a crowded theatre. Stealth emissions. LOL BB, I shore like that tackygraphomomometer thaing! Keep that photo on your desk. Come January you'll need to remember. | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
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John, yup those Pacific sunsets are amazing coming through the bus window. But don't just take my word for it...  Chuck, yeah I miss the beach already. Snowed here yesterday. Sniff... bb | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
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BUT... The Great Salt Lake had the best sunset I've seen... ever. Sorry, this is just my mug instead of the bus. My eight year-old snapped the best sunset pic of the trip and I happened to be in front of it...  OK, so we go from diesel emissions to Farm Lobby Welfare to wet dreams to Brian's Sunset Collection. Uh huh. That's BNO, baby! | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"BUT... The Great Salt Lake had the best sunset I've seen... ever." Perhaps , but inland you will never see the Green Flash. This is a western long water view delight , (Key West claims to have em too) where the air to the west is calm enough that as the sun sets , the suns rays are put thru the prism of the still atmosphere. For 2 or 3 seconds , the horizon goes bright GREEN ! Having sailed tha Atlantic , but not the Pacific I have never had the privelage of the view. YET FAST FRED | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
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Fred, I'm envious of you mariners. What sights to see out there on the water... After hotel camping above a marina in San Diego I told my wife I'd like to learn how to sail and charter a bareboat someday (me, the bona-fide Landlubber). Do a little bluewater cruising... She looked at me the same way she did when I started in on convincing her that old busses make superior RVs! Someday... bb | ||
| Mike (Busone)
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Hey Brian I hear ya about the snow. Here in Littleton we got almost a foot. I actually miss the Oregon fall weather. Lots of rain but not as cold. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"After hotel camping above a marina in San Diego I told my wife I'd like to learn how to sail and charter a bareboat someday (me, the bona-fide Landlubber). Do a little bluewater cruising...' To see if you like the lifestyle why not charter a boat in the Carib? Tortola is famous for many boat charter places and is EZ to get to. The Carib doesnt change much seasonally , only the tourists create the "season". So charter in the "out season" the summer and its way way cheaper. Its a shame folks can't charter bus conversions to see if this method of camping is for them. FAST FRED | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Hmmm....... Bus Conversions for Rent. | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
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Thanks, Fred. The Carib would be an adventure! We've got to find some permement solution to my wife's motion sickness before she'll sign on. It's one reason she likes the bus so much over our old bouncy, windblown Winnie. "Its a shame folks can't charter bus conversions to see if this method of camping is for them. " Amen. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
The folks are in Tortola BVI because there is a fine passage right outside the harbor. Most times the wind is 080/15K so a reach will allow visiting many places (in an hour or two) with little bouncing , just a bit of heeling over. FAST FRED |