| Author | Message | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Just got back from my first trip with the new (to me at least) Jakes... as opposed to the sphincter-squeezing moments that the old exhaust brake occasionally gave me, the Jakes are AMAZING. Grades that used to require 25-35mph are now totally controllable at 60-65 and I'm pleased as can be at how much more holding power they have... more than usually needed. I also totally like the two-switch bank-select setup I made... one switch turns on bank one, and the other switch turns on both banks 2 and 3. So with the two switches I can select three levels of holding power, and I used all three quite a lot. So far I don't see a need to automatically disable the Jakes if the engine is below a set RPM, as that situation never came up. My advice, if you've ever considered getting Jakes, just do it. I wish I'd have done it three years ago!! Cheers | ||
| R.C.Bishop
Rating: N/A |
Gary...in this part of the world, one doesn't have much time to think about how many switches one should engage when descending a Rocky Mountain Road.... Choose to either use the jakes or not.....choose what gear one should be in.....or not...and it's pretty much a "no brainer". KISS is right for me. Safety FIRST! RCB | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Oh man RC, I love having the choice. Example: ten mile long grade that varies frequently between 3 & 6-1/2%, just stick in in ninth and head down. As the grade lightens up I switch off a bank, maintaining speed perfectly without further shifting. Then as it gets steep again I can simply switch in banks as I need... MUCH easier than messing with gears, and never have to touch the brake pedal. It's not as if I invented this... the Jake manual says it's a factory standard either way... on/off for them all or selectable. My only contribution was that I did it with only two switches and circuits instead of three to accomplish the same task. Simpler. I can imagine if you tried the selectable method you wouldn't go back...  Guess I'll have to try it in the Rockies some day, maybe I'll change my mind... although in that situation I still have the choice to just leave em all on... Cheerio... | ||
| Kevin Black (Kblackav8or)
Rating: N/A |
I-5 is a good test in a few spots. Siskyous and the Grapevine. Tehachapi pass can be a challenge. I have never done them in a bus but have done them towing trailers. East coast folks have no idea what real grades are if they have never ventured west. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Oh - ohh... "Grades that used to require 25-35mph are now totally controllable at 60-65 " Whatchu' gonna' do if and when the Jake fails unexpectedly? We were taught that Mountains (grades) were to be descended in the gear it took to ascend it, Jake or no Jake.. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
John - I never had a Jake fail in 25+ years in the bus industry. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but to point out that they're extremely reliable. I do, however, understand where you were going with your comment, and it is a valid one. As for "Whatchu' gonna' do?", the advantage to having a Jake is that the service brakes stay cool. So you've got plenty of brake available to bring it down, speed-wise, to where you can get your coach into the appropriate gear to descend the grade in question, should the Jakes fail. Providing, of course, that you're driving defensively and don't "panic" when you discover the Jake has failed. If you panic, obviously you're gonna be in for a wild ride! Kevin - What kind of trailers are you talking about? Vacation/horse behind a car/pick-up, or 18-wheelers behind a tractor? Gary lives in CA, so he'll have fun going over the Grapevine now! He'll have even more fun when he tries WB I-80 from Reno to Sacratomato - 70 MILES of 4, 5, & 6% grades!! Will agree with you that the speed bumps they call mountains in the East are nothing compared to what's west of Denver. . . Gary - Now you know what I've been talking about over the last five or six years when it comes to Jake brakes!! FWIW & HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| shawn bennear (Lilneoplan)
Rating: N/A |
do they make a jake for the 8.2 detroit engine? shawn | ||
| mel 4104 Rating: N/A |
RJ when people talk about jake failure most of the time they are talking about a wiring failure like a wire breaking or a connection coming loose or one of the switches fails the jakes themselves may have a master or a slave fail but very seldom they complete system at one time. however having said thatas gary knows how to desend a hill whitout jakes he might be wise to continue coming down grades as he has been doing because a hill that you normally shift into lower gears and come down at 30-35 knowing that you have the jake is great but some day without warning if he is comming down a grade at 60-65 and finds he has no jakes if he makes it to the bottom alive he will have something to tell his grandchildern about. he will never be able to describe the stink inside the coach or where it came from or the puddle on the floor at his feet. but they sure are great Gary and enjoy. | ||
| R.C. Bishop
Rating: N/A |
............ Amen! and AMEN! RCB | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
Gotcha. I'll b doing it safely, no doubts about that. And I also doubt my wiring will be failing, since I put it in myself and electronics is what I have been doing professionally for many many years. I kinda know what I am doing... The signs "brake check" might as well also have "Jake check" written on them... prior to going down any hill everything gets checked, at least with me. The odds of a Jake suddenly quitting in the middle of a grade once it's already been on for a while are so slim that I seriously doubt it's anything more than something to argue about on a bus board. Common sense is the best directive in any situation, and you won't find me going down grades at 75 just because I can. I will only go as fast as is safe, with enough distance to stop if necessary. I actually want to live long enough to put hundreds of thousands of miles on the old rig, and I'm not into drag racing on the freeway hills. Oh, and I also have a secondary switch installed that hooks all three jake solenoids up directly to 12 volts, bypassing all the clutch and gas pedal switches, etc, just in case the wiring (lots of it in stainless steel tubing where it's exposed) or any of the service switches fail up there. Cheep insurance for a critical system. No chance it will fail between the dash and the engine, it would have to be three circuits all go at once and that's near impossible. Simple, redundant, and safe as it can be. And Mel, as RJ reminds us, if I'm coming down a hill at 65 with the Jakes on and they suddenly go off on their own, the brakes will be cold and the distance I'll have between me and the guy in front will be plenty enough to slow down for a shift. Then I can just go the rest of the way as I've been doing for years. It's not a biggie. Yup, Amen... | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, I think you've got it pegged. I'm glad you are enjoying your Jakes. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Kevin Black (Kblackav8or)
Rating: N/A |
My experience has been pickups and cars towing cars and rv trailers. I have done the rockies and around the west a fair bit. I wish my powerstroke had an engine brake. More then I want to spend at the moment especially when I want a bus or truck conversion in the not to distant future. My Dad was in the trucking industry for 35 years, not as a driver though he did do some backup driving at times but in managment. Went to many accident scenes of flipped and destroyed tractors. Lots of stories from him and growing up around it. Kevin | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Hello liberated hill descenders. As for the downhill speed, on the twisty bits, perhaps also good to remember the closing speed on the rear of those of us that are making our way down the old fashioned way? Too soon we forget the other side? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| mel 4104 Rating: N/A |
Gary i was not trying to get anyone up set about any post here on the board. it just looked to me when i read your post that from now on you feel that 60-65 down hills that you went down at 36 40 before. it sure is nice to have all those circuits wired inbut most people just wire the jakes as per the instructions and do not add the others that you havewhich is great. but there are a lot of truck drivers that lost their lives because the jake did not work when they most needed it,i live up here in the NW where we see a lot of trucks that became run aways due to brake failure. as of the roads on the hills have 3 run away lanes between top and bottom and they get used. | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
When I got my 4104 in Aug I definitely planned to add a Jake as soon as possible since I had used one 4-5 years on an 18-wheeler. I just returned from a trip to Reno from Arkansas using I80 through WY, UT and NV, about 4300 miles. There were some impressive grades and elevations both directions. I fully expected to have a bunch of hot brake conditions but much to my surprise the 6-71 held downhill speeds to very manageable levels. One time I used the brakes steadily for about a mile to keep it at about 55-60. I don't remember which grade required this because there were so many. The rest of the time I stayed around those speeds with just occasional uses of brakes. A bunch of these grades I just barely made up in third and more than a few required second. I never shifted down for any descent because I didn't feel the need to do so and never went slower than 55mph. I have given up the idea of installing a Jake simply because I don't think this bus needs one. I would not want to drive a semi without a Jake but here we are talking 80,000lbs versus 21,000- a really big difference. | ||
| mel 4104
Rating: N/A |
Gusc, i also drive a 4104 and i also have a jake, like you i have driven heavy eg. {50+years}and have had my air ticket for 55yrs. so if you have time some day go to a truck repair shop and look at the differance between the brakes on the 4104 and a 18 wheeler. the first thing you will see is the differance in size the brake chamber pots, them look at the differance in size of the brake drums themselves they also are huge compared to the 4104s, now count the number of pots on the 18 wheeler there should be 10, on the 4104 there is 4, now most converted 4104s are in the weight range 0f 24-28,000 pounds and the loaded semi at 80,000pounds. now you see what i mean about the use of brakes. even the new transit buses have the new huge brake systems and i have salvaged some of them and wished that i could get their brake system under my 4104. one last question, do you still have the old D1 brake application valve or have you up graded? | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
Mel, I don't know what brake application valve I have, I just got the bus and haven't gone into it much so far. I understand what you are saying about brakes. My bus has all new brakes and drums plus spring parking brakes. The old ICC valve was plumbed so that it applied the brakes when pushed in!! Needless to say I blocked it off, that could have been a disaster. I'm just saying what my experience was on the long trip, don't see how any trip could have much steeper grades but I suppose there are some Interstates worse. Again, I was really amazed at how much the 6-71 holds back at no fuel. I assumed that a two stroke wouldn't hold back much at all. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A |
I was totally surprised at how well my engine held my "new" bus back too.... until I added 6-7000 pounds doing the conversion... then it wasn't so good afterall. Add to that a 6000 pound trailer and Jakes started to look pretty good... | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A |
Shawn...to answer your good question....NO. A Jake is NOT available for the 8.2 liter (500 inch) Detroit 4-stroke V8. However...you can mount an exhaust brake. | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
"East coast folks have no idea what real grades are if they have never ventured west." Ever driven Mount Washington? I have, a few times. It was rather memorable...in both directions (10,500lb motorhome "powered" by a 130HP 318, towing a 2600lb VW pickup). It was no trouble at all in my car. |