| Author |
Message |
Juan Navarro (Jnavarro)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 7:36 pm: | |
I bought our very nicely converted 4104 a couple of years ago and have enjoyed it immensely in our trips to Baja. However, the 04 has an automatic and the 671 Screaming Jimmie engine, it is slow and drinks heavily. It has all the amenities that anyone could want, front and rear caps, 7kw genset, 2500W inverter, fantastic fans, tub, shower, washer dryer combo, dishwasher, corian, webasto, satellite tracking and much more.
I have to say that before I bought our bus I was very ignorant about the topic. Today I know a lot more about buses and for a while I have admired the 4106s sport car of coaches and the 4107/8 Buffaloes.
I was driving through Fontana last Saturday and stopped at a yard where there was a straight 1967 4107. Don’t know how the owner came to it but it is in questionable shape. I couldn’t leave it there so I made the guy an offer he couldn’t refuse. I gave him $1,000 and he handed me the papers.
After fiddling with the wiring, (someone has been there); found the diesel solenoid wire and the starter solenoid wire, .we borrowed one of the forklift batteries and cranked. The 8V71 came to life without a hitch; no smoke and it began airing up. Love the sound of Detroit’s! Went inside and tested the brakes, 110 PSI and they seem to hold. Clutch in, (Oh Yea, this baby has a manual 4 speed!), gearshift lever left and up and grinding noises, did it again, clutch in lever forward – grind, lever back, and grind. Humm? No luck, clutch is not releasing and I will have to check it out next weekend.
Talk about mixed feelings. Now I have all the parts to convert my 4104 to manual shift, but at the expense of sacrificing a 4107? Anyone know the scrap value of a 4107?
I spoke with abrasive blasting in Riverside and will be taking the bus, providing I can get it to move, so they can sandblast around all the windows to assess the corrosion damage, if it is not too bad, I may keep it intact and begin the slow restoration process.
The 4107 has no seats or racks or interior, otherwise it is complete, the previous owner already purchased the R&M rear cap and engine cover, front light fiberglass pieces and all the lights that go with the new caps. The A/C has been stripped and all the wiring has been ripped. The engine compartment is intact and it appears that no one has messed with it.
And now there are two! Just don’t tell my wife, she’s still not over the 4104.
By the way can any one identify this bus it is a 1967 PD 4107-775
Juan Navarro
’53 PD 4104-148 ‘hound and now a ’67 PD 4107-775 Buffalo |
H3-40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 8:29 pm: | |
Juan the 4107 I used to own had a reverse switch on the dash. After putting the shifter in 2nd gear, I think, I had to toggle the switch one way for reverse and then the other way to be back in 2nd gear. I may be wrong but you might want to look for this reverse switch. It may not have been 2nd but I know it was a forward gear, then toggle the switch, then that gear was in reverse. It c ould be a faulty switch and not the clutch! Someone with MORE GM experience could tell you better I'm sure since I am going on memory and that doesn't work like it used to either!
Ace |
Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 8:56 pm: | |
Hi Juan and Folks:
Juan, after 36 years of marriage, I could not pull off what you have. God Bless You!!!!
With regard to the 4107, you may not have a clutch release problem at all. The wet clutch on the 4107 & 4905's are a different animal from anything the average individual has ever driven.
Go back to the coach, start it up, and build your air to 120 lbs.
Now with your hand on the gear shift, shut the bus off. As it slows down to its last revs, put the coach into first gear. Then start it up again. I think that you should then be able to release the DD3 brake button, push on the brake pedal, release the clutch and the bus should move out just fine. If not, there is a problem.
If you need HELP!!!, you have the phone number as I am privleged to have done business with you before!!!!
I Hope this HELPS!!!
LUKE at US COACH |
gusc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 9:03 pm: | |
Juan,
The clutch is not necessarily stuck. My 4104 does the same thing with shifting sometimes. It is worse the hotter the trans gets. I think it is too much slack in the shift linkage because I now have my bellcrank apart and some of the linkage holes are worn almost completely through and the pins are also very worn.
All you have to do to stop the gear grinding is put it into first before starting the engine (Obviously with the clutch in). There isn't enough clutch drag to hinder starting on mine.
Then, anytime you need to use first gear try to put it into first while the bus is moving forward at very low speed (almost a slow walk) , and it goes right into gear. You don't even have to use the clutch to do this if you time it right. In fact, I don't use the clutch 90% of the time I shift while moving.
Does your 4104 have a 6-71TA? What fuel mileage do you get? |
T. (Bluegrass)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 9:45 pm: | |
Juan
Dont be to sure that Is whats wrong, I have seen more than one Clutch rust to the flywheel, the way to check It out Is to warm the Engine up get the air pressure up put the transmission In second or third gear with the clutch In and the breaks off hit the starter and see If the bus moves forward rev the engine with the clutch In most of the time It will break loose.
Tony |
Juan Navarro (Jnavarro)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 12:48 am: | |
Thank you guys,
I will try a few things this Saturday. I know about the reverse solenoid but I think it only engages reverse when energized and I have not looked for the wire to ensure that it is off. The first thing I want to check is that the linkage to the clutch lever is transferring all the pedal motion, after that I will check the part number of the trannie.
Thank you Luke, I think you are correct that this is a wet clutch and may be stuck to the flywheel. What oil does the clutch cavity uses?
Gusc, If you click on my name above, you'll see a photo of my 04. It has the original, albeit rebuilt 671 inline with jakes and no turbo it also has the V730 automatic the 04 gets about 6 to 7 mpg. I have a fresh 6V92TA in the garage about to be rolled under the 04 but now I am at a crossroad should i go with the 07 and the 6V92 or with the ready to go 04 and 6V92 and manual.
I will keep you posted,
Juan Navarro 4104 and 07 |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 1:33 am: | |
Juan -
I remember the fellow in Fresno who converted your coach - what a labor of love it was for him!
Anyway, I can't remember - did he put a 4106 rear axle under it when he installed the V-730?
RJ |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 8:25 am: | |
Juan -
This may seem like a stupid comment to add, but make triple
sure you don't have anything in front or behind you when you
start it in gear! Once fired up and rolling, it ain't gonna' stop
on a dime with no clutch to release. And.. it can be difficult to
pull it out of gear while it's under power! Give it some extra room...
As said, once it's in gear and running down the road, you can
shift it up and down w/out a clutch. I think most older drivers
have brought one back to the barn that way, at one time or another.
Enjoy! |
Juan Navarro (Jnavarro)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 11:05 am: | |
RJ,
The 04 has a 4106 rear on it, there is no vibration and it runs smoothly at 70 72 MPH. As soon as I can get over the grapevine with the 04 I would like to stop by and say hello.
John,
Before I go anywhere I have to make sure that I can stop and come back to where I started.
As of today I am leaning to use the 07 for parts to change my 04 back to manual shift. I need to do some research as to which differential to use with the spicer. does anyone know what the cruising speed of a 4107 is and at what rpm? both coaches have 12R-22.5s and I want to go to 11R-24.5 on the 04 with the 6V92, to get a little taller tire and the availability of this tire size south of the border. |
busboy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 11:16 am: | |
I have never driven wet clutch but word of warning from a mechanic is they are easier to burn out than a dry clutch if you ride them. He says any heavy vehicle is hard on the clutch if you ride (slip) it for more than a few seconds, but says the wet clutch fails much faster if overheated. Otherwise he says they give durable service. |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 11:55 am: | |
Juan -
The 4106 differential will work fine with the Spicer, the ratio is 4.125:1. Like the 4106, the 4107 is geared to run 60 mph at 1650 rpm using tires that turn 495 revs/mile.
Bridgestone has an 11R24.5 drive tire (M726EL) that turns 470 revs/mile, which when plugged into Daris's little calculator, gives a top speed (Spicer/4106 axle) of about 82 mph at 2100.
(Daris's calculator: http://www.freewebs.com/darisb/ Link's in LH menu.)
I know you like the idea of a stick shift, but MHO would be to stuff the 6V92TA into the '04, since the major work of installing the transmission and rear axle are already done. Add the 24.5 tires listed above, and you'd have a very, very sweet driving coach. Top speed would be about 77 with this combo, plus the ability to wiggle into the pretty places w/o worrying about burning up a clutch.
OTOH, if you really, really, REALLY must have a stick shift, then you've got a LOT of work cut out for you to reinstall a stick into a coach that's been converted to an automatic.
I can't remember if the previous owner of your '04 pulled all the manual transmission & clutch linkage out of the coach. If he did, that just complicates the conversion - the 4107's linkage is different, due to the taller baggage bins - you'll have to find a donor '04. Ditto the clutch linkage.
BTW, PD4107-775 was delivered new as fleet number A-510 to Canadian Coachways, based in Edmonton, Alberta, thru GM Diesel, GMC's Canadian subsidiary. Delivered in May of 1967.
Might want to look a lot closer at this '07 - based on where it used to live, you might find some serious corrosion issues, especially around the 2nd "D" window and around the upper skylights. Some may be hidden inside the interior panels, too.
Decisions, decisions, decisions. . . fun, eh?
HTH,
RJ |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 5:29 pm: | |
I'm with RJ. You have a complete coach with the '04. If you want some extra oomph, shoehorn in the 6v92. To go back to a shell and start over sounds like a LOT of work. To put a stick back in your '04 also sounds like a lot of work... esp. since the tranny/clutch package is from a different bus/ era.
As much fun as I get out of shifting gears, there's times I'd like to just inch forward, or back to negotiate tight spots and spaces, OR get up a steep incline while stopped... and it's just not good or simply impossible in some situations with the stick/ clutch. I almost gave myself an ulcer worrying about getting out of a steep beach parking lot in Oceanside, CA... instead of just enjoying the beach.
And while getting nearly 10MPGs is a big incentive, think of all the $ you'll spend (not to mention TIME) to do something different, and you could go through a LOT of diesel... even @ $3/gallon.
OTOH, this busnut business is a hobby... and some of us like to tinker. And tinker and tinker. Are you ready for some serious tinkerin'? Or do you just want to see the world in a cool old bus? Only you can decide...
Just some thoughts,
bb |
Craig Craddock (Gs4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 5:02 pm: | |
I was told Pedco did the transmission conversion in your 04. The thing a friend and I noticed is they did not do much in the way of reinforceing of the firewall and etc. They mainly just cut material out. Other then that it looked like they did a nice job.
I am with RJ you have a nice bus I would go for the 692/V730 repower. It is a lot of work but still the easiest of your stated choices.
I would be happy to offer some advise if needed as I have installed a V730 behind a 671 and also a 8V71TA/V730 in the same 4104 bus. It is a real race horse compared to your current power setup. You will not be disappointed you did the repower. What is your current top speed, I wonder what rear axle ratio you currently have? We went with 4.44 giving a effective ratio taking in account the trans. over drive of about 3.875. We thought we needed this with the underpowered 671/V730 combo. In the Calif. mountains we did need it. |
Craig Craddock (Gs4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 8:06 pm: | |
Juan
The easiest repower by far would be an inline 671TA of 290 to 300hp. You would only have to change the intake and exhaust systems. There are several of these running around with a V730. I have heard that their owners are very happy with this combo. |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 12:10 pm: | |
I had, at one time, a factory manual for upgrading a 4905 to a V730. IIRC, it specifically mentioned bracing across the bottom of the bulkhead to make up for material removal and loss of strength. I shipped it off to one of the other BB users (forget who now) maybe they can "chip" in and either correct or augment my memory. |
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