| Author | Message | ||
| Wayne Newland
Rating: |
I know that one of the regulars on this board is in the fire suppression business. Without going back and reading a lot of messages, to try to find you, would you reply. I have a friend on the GMC Motorhome net that would like to get in touch with you. Wayne Newland F9300 | ||
| Cliff (Floridacracker)
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Go down two messages Jim Sheperd | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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Hi Wayne, I'm the owner of this board and my full time job is in the fire suppression business. Feel free to direct any questions to me directly on the bulletin board. Questions and answers explored here can be significantly helpful far and wide from this medium. A couple of professional opinions from acquaintances and collegues include Jack Conrad and Jim Shepherd. Ian Giffin www.busnut.com | ||
| Cliff (Floridacracker)
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Ian, Well I learned something new today! I had never read that was your line of work since I have been on the board. I have a question; Is there a setup where you can attach a fire extinguisher(rechargeable) that could be manually released from in the cabin to discharge out a nozzle, say over the generator or engine? Cliff | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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Hi Cliff, Secret!! Shhh. Yes, absolutely, to your question and Jim is the person to speak to this issue... Jim? Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Tony & Kim Rian (Rianrts)
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Ian Have you heard about a product called "cold fire"? This stuff is great, I work with a dragboat rescue group and we use it. This stuff you can spray stright down the carb to put the fire out. blow it off and fire the engine doesn't break down any of the parts. Also the video we saw to promote it says there's not a fire it can not put out. To include a magnesium fire. All we use is the old h2o ext that has an air fitting mix up a batch pour in put air in and your done. | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
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As Ian knows, I try not to be too commercial on this board, but this thread opened the door and Ian even invited a reply (grin). We do carry both mounted fire suppression systems (from the racing industry) as well as hand held extinguishers and a newly released fire detection system for the engine and generator compartments. As noted above, Cold Fire is about the best there is and we are an authorized distributor. All of the details are contained on our website. There are even two articles I wrote for Bus Conversion magazine on the subject of fire suppression and alarm systems on the website. Ian, thanks for the opportunity to let folks know about our business. Now back to lurk mode from the business side. Jim Shepherd Evergreen, CO ’85 Eagle 10 http://rvsafetysystems.com Toll Free: 1**888**349**0704 Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm (updated 2/17/05) | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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Hi Tony, Cold fire and similar products are "water wetters". We use a product called Mi-cell F500. Same, same. Works great and I recommend it highly. Caveat. I am a fire department Training Officer (and, therefore, perfect, of course... yeah, right). I am required, here, to say, "If, upon discovering a fire, on your way out of the fire area, if you happen to come across your fire extinguisher, irrespective of what miraculous ingredient it is filled with, and if you have practiced using it to extinguish real fire, you may try once to extinguish the fire. If you are not successful, continue to leave the fire area. Please don't lose focus on why you are leaving the fire area - you are doing so to find a phone, next door, to call 9-1-1". Dragboat rescue group. Now THERE'S something not everyone in the world can do. Thank you for being you in that section of the suppression profession. Hope you're getting the big bucks that you deserve. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Mike Jackson (Mike4104tx)
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Just for clarification: If the "miraculous ingredient" happens to be water and you suspect the fire could be "electrical"... continue to leave the fire area.  Just in case the silver bullet happens to be sitting there... Mike | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
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Mike, you are correct in stating that the new surfactant technology is based on a water solution. It is incorrect to imply that the water is the “miraculous ingredient”. These materials are approved and used, almost exclusively, in every major form of racing. They do an unbelievable job of fire suppression especailly when liquid fuels are present (something pure water could not do -- would make matters worse). I have witnessed many bad racing fires (and performed my own tests) that clearly demonstrate that approved surfactant materials have fire suppression capabilities beyond your imagination. OK, now to the class “C” or electrical fire issue. It is correct that surfactants are not rated for class “C” fires. However, that must be put in context. First of all class “C” fires are “energized” electrical fires. Remove the source and it then becomes a standard class “A” or normal combustibles type fire. Secondly, a person needs to use some judgment on fighting an electrical fire. A 12V or 24V fire should not be an issue. When I do my seminars, I seem to attract trained fire fighters. They always come up and chat after the session and, without exception, they all say that they would not hesitate to fight an energized 110V fire in a bus/motorhome (exterior fire only – see below). One of the statements I hear several times at each trade show I attend is: “I have insurance and I will walk away from a fire”. Those folks have never dealt with an insurance company regarding a fire loss (I have direct knowledge). There are two insurance issues. The first is the replacement of the vehicle and the second is the replacement of the contents. I will not go into all of the problems involved, but I encourage all of you to check with your insurance company as to specifically what they cover and at what level (full replacement vs. depreciated). Now to the major problem with our bus conversions. There is no “book value”. The subject has come up several times on this board. Suffice it to say that you will be lucky to recoup you out-of-pocket materials cost (if you have good records) for most buses. If yours is top quality and appraised by a recognized company, you have some chance of recovering a reasonable percentage of your investment, but most of us are not in that situation. Having the ability to fight an EXTERIOR fire just makes good sense. With the exception of interior electrical fires (generally poor wiring practice), the statistics would suggest that most of the fires are exterior fires (engine, generator, brake/tire, etc.). You can fight these fires safely if you have good equipment. As Ian (and every other expert) will tell you, do not try to fight a significant INTERIOR fire. There are some very bad off-gassing materials in the interior. Also, the volume is very small and the temperature and smoke density rise rates are very high!! Jim | ||
| t gojenola
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There was an excellent study and analysis of bus fires made in Finland in 1990 that remains, in my opinion, the quintessential authority on the subject, including causes, prevention, and extinguishers. I believe the conclusions are equally valid to our conversions and motor homes, as well: http://www.onnettomuustutkinta.fi/uploads/gvty79bpq89a.pdf tg | ||
| t gojenola
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Change that to 2001 - sorry tg | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
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TG, I agree that these are among the best studies (there is two year’s worth). I sited them in my bus/motorhome fire article mentioned above. In the alarm article, I also sited statistical data from the Oregon Fire Marshal’s office (reported to be one of the best database systems of it’s type). Any study you want to look at tells a story of more fires than most of us might think – usually in the engine compartment or the brake/tire area. The interesting thing about the Finland studies is that they cover relatively new buses. Bus and motorhome fires are not limited to clapped out vehicles. If you ever want an eye opener, look around in RV or bus wrecking yards. You see a good supply of burned out frames. Jim | ||
| john david lebrun (Davidlebrun)
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Jim, Ian; Thanks for the site, it's something I've been thinking about. |
