| Author |
Message |
bruce knee (Bruceknee)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 10:12 pm: | |
What is the way to go? |
Kevin Black (Kblackav8or)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 11:36 pm: | |
Can you elaborate on your thinking on this? |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 12:06 am: | |
50 amp is essentially 240 at the circuit panel. So yeah, wire
the panel as if you were going to use 240v someplace.
50 Amp Wiring |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 5:35 am: | |
Usually an electric range is the only 240v user , and with 240V at only a percentage of campgrounds , you limit the camping places to truck stops, where youre noisemakew won't be heard in the din.
Most folks bring in 2 120 legs , and join them or seperate them depending on the campground .
With 240 you can run 2 air cond , with only 30A of 120v , you may need a good invereter to pass thru extra juice to get the second one running.
FAST FRED |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 11:19 am: | |
Yup, 240V depends on your needs. The biggest decision is 30A vs. 50A service.
30A service is 3-wire and only 3,600 watts of capacity. 50A service is 4-wire and has 12,000 watts of capacity.
You'll spend about 2-3x the $ on a 50A setup, but might be worth it. It was for me.
HTH,
bb |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 12:39 pm: | |
Bruce, without question, you should wire for 50A (240volt) shore service. This will allow you to do most anything you want in your bus, now or later. All things considered, it does not cost that much extra when you are doing the original installation.
The issue then becomes what you do with that service. Some folks merely use the two 120 volt legs for their electrical needs (and take advantage of the much higher wattage available) and never have a need for the 240V wiring that is available in the breaker box.
In my case, we have a washer and dryer and the dryer takes 240V. That was easy to wire right out of the standard house type breaker box.
With a standard adapter, that is readily available at any RV store, you can plug your 50 amp cord into a 30 amp supply and live quite happily with the 30A (110V) service with some reasonable usage conservation of electrical devices.
Then the question becomes what you do with your generator. Dick Wright strongly recommends that you do not wire a 10KW or smaller generator for 240 volts. The reason is that there is always an unbalanced load on each 120V leg and that could overload the windings in of a smaller generator as you approach its capacity. I have a 10KW Wrico unit and wired it for 240V. I then installed ammeters on each leg to monitor balance in the system. That way, I can run the dryer while we go down the road if we need to.
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10
http://rvsafetysystems.com Toll Free: 1**888**349**0704
Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm (updated 2/17/05) |
H3-40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 3:22 pm: | |
Jim do you have a picture of the ammeters installed? Are they IN the coach or down under?
Thanks
Ace |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 5:58 pm: | |
Ace, the ammeters are in the bus in my electrical panel. I used direct reading ammeters as opposed to shunt type. That means that I had to run large gage wire into the interior of the bus and back to the junction box. I ran each leg in one smurf tube to make sure that the two legs would not get across each other. You can see the junction box and the meters on our bus project page at: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject4.htm. The photos are thumbnail and can be enlarged by clicking on them.
The junction box is the smaller box to the left of the breaker box.
Now before anyone jumps on my case about using green wire for each of the legs, we have been around that corner a couple of years ago (grin). According to all of the experts I have contacted, you can run any color wire as long as it is clearly marked by the correct color tape at each termination point. At the time, green was the only color I had access to (in a rush as usual). I realize that it is a terrible color to use given the normal context of the color in house wiring and I intend to replace the green wire with another color, but for right now, it is clearly marked.
Back to the ammeters. David Anderson used shunt type ammeters in his coach and has no problems. I was concerned about the distance from the shunt to the meter and decided to go with the direct connect type.
Jim |
John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 11:35 pm: | |
Jim, phase marking tape is only legal on 2/0 AWG and larger wire, and then only in services or switch gear. Electricity is not bigoted, and doesn't care about color, but inspectors and insurance people do. Good Luck.
...JJ |
John Jewett (Jayjay)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 12:09 am: | |
Jim, phase marking tape is legal only on 2/0 AWG and larger wire, and then only in service entrances or switch gear.
Shunt type meters (assuming quality equipment) are accurate to around 80 feet, if the shunt wire is properly sized.
Never run individual phase legs in separate conduits. Especially when passing through metal enclosures, since there can be an inductive current set up due to the imbalance in the load, and over-heating can occur. Damage and risk of fire may result to the wire, conduit, or enclosure, or all three.
Your "experts" have let you down, and frankly, I think you need a qualified electrician, to assist you. I won't go on, but in just one photo I saw no less then 5 code violations.
Please accept my observations as advise, and concern for your safety, not as flaming or blatant criticism. Good Luck
...JJ |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 10:43 am: | |
JJ, anytime someone makes constructive comments; it is not flaming or criticism!!
I had not considered the inductive current issue. That makes good sense.
Rather than clog up the board, would you drop me an email at: jim *at* rvsafetysystems *dot* com or call me on our toll free number: 888**349**0704 and leave me your phone number and a good time to call so that I can sort this out?
The previous thread about my wiring (couple of years ago) deteriorated into a shouting match of “experts” and also became yet another debate about marine wire.
I want to make sure that my wiring is safe and thus, I want to talk to you about the code violations and sort out what must be changed.
I had long ago regretted that I went to the non-shut type ammeters and I guess you have given me good reason to make the change.
Thanks for taking the time to look at the photos. More importantly, thanks for being a constructive contributor to this (and other) boards!!
Jim |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 11:33 am: | |
The summary is:
Wire for 240 volts but use only 120 volt breakers, half on each leg.
Don't wire anything in the bus for 240 volts.
Have your generator set up for 120 volts.
That way your system will work anywhere that 120 volts 15 Amps, 20 Amps or 30 Amps is available. It will work where two legs of 120 Volt 30 Amps are available as "50 Amp hook up", and it will work on a true 240 volt 50 Amp hook up. And anything in your bus can be used on any of these hookups. |
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