| Author | Message | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
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I keep hearing about wabesto heaters. I would like to know more about them and what they do and how they work. as you guys know I spend a lot (too much) time in Wisconsin and I want to put more better heat in my new bus. I plan to use propane and electric both. heating all the bays and installing a larger propane tank. having a 3rd method of heat would be nice. | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Webasto is diesel fueled and available as an air heater or a water heater. Most bus conversions use the water heater model for hydronic heating. Similar types of heaters are available that burn propane. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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One of the best things since sliced bread. Lots of information at their web site and probably lots of information in the archives on this board. It has been discussed many many times before. Richard And I well remember the first sliced bread I ever had back in the early 40's. LOL | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
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Ron - you can install this system under several designs, but for Northern climate use it is good to choose a design where you have the ability to warm the engine up with the heater. It only takes a few minutes to get a stone cold Detroit up to a warm, easy-start temp. The Webasto reminds you of one of those propane or kerosene space heaters that look (and sound) like a jet engine. It's under a couple of feet long. There is a water jacket that surrounds the cumbustion chamber and water is pumped through that to whatever heat exchangers you choose. In my bus I have passive radiators in the "salon" and bedroom (along the walls), and electric fan based heat exchangers in the bathroom and salon. This heats the bathroom up qucikly, and the two fan based units under the couch up front are also only used to bring the area up to temp then I turn them off and let the radiators handle it. (Not necessary if you are not in a hurry). The bedroom, bathroom, and kitchen/salon are on their own zones, controlled by regular house wall mounted thermostats. These thermostats control electric valves that let the water circulate through the heat exchangers when heat for that zone is needed. There is also a water-to-water heat exchanger you can get in an electric water heater. The electric is nice when you are on the pole, and the exchanger gives you a nice hot shower or whatever when running on the Webasto (or Detroit). The neat thing is that they whole system will get heated up by the engine (Detroit) while going down the road, so after a fuel stop or whatever you can wash up in hot water. This is only of you plumb it to heat up the engine as mentioned above. The system requires diesel (use the main tank) and electricity to function. The electricity is used for the circulating pumps and to spin/fire the boiler. The good news is that it will keep the coach toasty warm (I also have the ability to heat the bay with the tanks), even in the great white north. The bad news as I see it is: 1) Expensive to aquire 2) Pumps and such seem to hit my batteries hard 3) It is noisy when burning. 4) The exhaust is very hot (somewhere I read 700 degrees, can't confirm or deny) and requires special consideration when ducting and venting. It smells like what it is, diesel exhaust. So plan to run the exhaust where passers-by won't get burnt, where you won't melt/burn your coach, and where you don't direct the fumes back into a roof vent or some such. Hope that helps. Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"The bad news as I see it is: 1) Expensive to aquire 2) Pumps and such seem to hit my batteries hard 3) It is noisy when burning. 4) The exhaust is very hot (somewhere I read 700 degrees, can't confirm or deny) and requires special consideration when ducting and venting. It smells like what it is, diesel exhaust. So plan to run the exhaust where passers-by won't get burnt, where you won't melt/burn your coach, and where you don't direct the fumes back into a roof vent or some such. " A few additional concerns , Many will require a seperate tank with either #1 diesel or diesel/kerosene to operate in real cold ( under +10F). They can be maint intensive if used as primary heat with a thermostat , as starting repeadly fouls them and short burn times doesn't clean them. For all winter operation , annual summer rebuild is required. Remember too they were made for a truck or bus that feeds then 13.8 to 14,4V so starting on battery or convereter power is more difficult , and will use more amps. Observations are from the many ESPAR and a few Webasto units I installed & serviced on live aboard boats. FAST FRED | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
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FYI - there are 24v Models available (what I have), so if you get one of those, you won't have to fuss with a converter. (That is if your house batts are 24 volts like mine). Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| Jim Stewart (H3jim)
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FYI My 41,000 btu Espar unit has an exhaust temp of about 470 degrees as measured by an infrared temp gun. Its also much quieter than the Aquahots. Maybe it puts out a smaller volume of fumes, but I have never smelled it. As opposed to my 13 KW Wrico generator which really stinks. Both exhaust under the coach. | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
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I think now I would look for a propane version. Cleaner burning. Better smell. I thought I would want diesel heat, but my bus has it and now I really don't use it much because it is smelly, noisey, can catch grass on fire, runs down batteries very fast. It was obvious to me a few years ago when I bought, that the best would be a diesel heater, but now I understand and would not use one again. I would plumb the the gerator radiator line through a heat exchanger for hot water and heating the engine. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
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Hello all. Since everything is relative and many readers experience is operation in more moderate temps, I'll offer this bit of suggestion for those contemplating sub-arctic operations. If you are trying to operate in real winter conditions, there are trade-offs that one must make to achieve the functionality desired. Webasto and other coolant furnace competitors make noise, consume power and there is exhaust to deal with. That's ok. A big RV furnace will be running pretty much continuously to keep the interior warm, consuming a fair bit of propane. That's ok. Just about all that you do in sub-zero is going to consume power, make noise and stink in order to stay warm. And, that's ok. However you measure it, you need big BTU to get the coach warmed up, and a fair number to keep it warm. The more BTU you have, the sooner you stop freezing. The less, the longer you are uncomfortable, or you may stay that way! Also, redundancy is your friend in winter conditions. What are you going to do if heating method number one fails? Is heating method number two able to function if there is complete failure of method number one? Tip: heat strips in the air conditioners are pretty poor performers in real winter conditions. Tip: lead acid batteries lose a ton of their capacity in the cold. Here's a combination that might keep you out of trouble: a generator capable of cold weather starts, an electric engine block heater, a coolant furnace tied into the coach coolant, some radiant units for the coolant heater, some with a fan installed, a propane furnace, an inverter to let the engine alternator power the 120V electrics, a couple of electric cube heaters. The coach defroster must be functional, some form of coach heat while underway, quite desirable. And some blankets, in case it all goes wrong? Borrowing an idea from FastFred, there are marine stoves which burn diesel, gravity feed, which need no power. Dickenson is one supplier, on the west coast, with facilities on both sides of the border. A Bering Stove, with hot water coils for the water heater, is a nice addition to your winter arsenal. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
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One whacky thought I had was, could I stick a muffler in the Webasto exhaust? It seems that one could attenuate the combustion sound some with a muffler. There is still the high-speed whine of the blower motor to be dealt with. Mine has the Webasto logoed sheet metal enclosure around it and I wonder if I can find some high temp insulation to line the box with to cut that sound down some. Inside the coach there is not much to be heard or smelled, but sometimes you have neighbors. Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
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Hello Craig. Don't restrict the airflow of a Webasto, in or out. It needs the required flow of air to keep the temps right and for proper combustion. Only that blower fan to keep the air moving... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Heed Buswarriors advice! I participated, collaterally on an engineering project that involved these dynamics. It's not nice to mess with Mother Flame front! | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
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Hmmm sounds of sage advice, such as "maintain thy airspeed least the ground rise up and smite thee", or "take the spoon out of the hot chocolate before you drink." :-) Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Craig, I'll be addressing this issue with my ProHeat in the near future, no clear thoughts at this time but my first impression is to approach the problem from known weaknesses. Do the same sort of thing with the Webasto that they do with quieting genset installations. Without imposing restriction on the flow of air through the heater, figure out ways to redirect the sound. Sound don't like to go around corners. This will take up space, however! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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Personally, I never found the noise or the exhaust fumes objectionable on my Webasto. If it was on, it was cold outside and all the doors and windows of the bus were closed. Likewise, if it was cold any neighbor would have their windows and doors closed. If it is adjusted properly, there is very little exhaust smell. I see no reason why some soundproofing could not be added as long as the air flow is not disturbed and a removable roof high stack, like used on gensets, could easily be added. I would never, ever, consider anything but a diesel fired furnace and a diesel fired genset. Properly installed, they are not a problem. Richard | ||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
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I agree Richard Ron | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
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I have a Scholastic Series Webasto and I put 1" soundbarrier material left over from the genset installation inside the cover of the Webasto. It took care of the whinning noise. Also, you can use an outside generator exhaust stack (the removable kind) to direct the fumes upward instead of towards your neighbor. I built one out of 1.5" steel electrical conduit, but you can buy a ready made one from an RV store. --Geoff '82 RTS AZ |
