| Author | Message | ||
| bill chisholm (Billybandman)
Rating: N/A |
I am interested if any of you have come up with a way to run a 1" Air Impact from your small shop compressor or by connecting to the bus air system, or both. I have tried hooking the small shop compressor and the bus air together, at the same time, with a 3/8" Y, at the wrench but still don't get enough oomph to remove the lug nuts. Does it take more than 120lbs of pressure or more volume? I am not interested in speed, if I had to wait for the pressure to build back up between lugnuts that wouldn't be a big deal. Please suggest hose sizes and pressures, etc if you have come up with something that works. I rented a 150 lb compressor with a 3/4' hose and no problem. | ||
| Eral-8-Ky Rating: N/A |
Bill I think you just answered your on question. It is volume you need plus a reasonable amount of preasure.You went from a 3/8 hose to a 3/4 which gives you the volume. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
I have never tried it, but I read about someone who had an extra auxiliary air tank and he plumbed it so that he could fill it with the regular sized air hose from his compressor or the bus. He then installed a 3/4" outlet on this tank. With his 3/4" air gun on a six foot hose connected to this outlet, he could remove at least one nut at a time, and then wait for the smaller airline to fill the auxiliary tank. I suspect a 20 or 30 gallon auxiliary tank would be sufficient. This would give you the volume needed. Richard | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Rating: N/A |
Bill, Maybe this will help you in at least removing your wheels. I recomend using a 20 ton jack if you have one only because of the size of the jacking head to keep a wrench from slipping off the jack. You can use any size jack but play it safe if you can. For the bogie wheels and front wheels it is simple, use a 1" breaker bar with the 1 1/2" I believe in size impact socket or use a heavy duty 1 1/2" box wrench. The outer wheels can also use a regular 1 1/2" box wrench if you wish. Do not use regular thin wall socket and wear safety glasses when doing this. Put the socket or the box wrench on the wheel nut to be removed. (Don't forget the left hand side of the bus wheel nuts removes to the right and the right side of the bus removes from the the left direction)! Place the socket on the nut with the 1" breaker bar handle or the box wrench in the slightly downward position in the middle of the jack head. Be sure you have supports under the jack to have the height and full stroke of the jack to jack up and loosen the nuts on your wheels. To get to all the nuts you will probably have to keep changing the height of the jack but have small pieces of 4x4 material to assist you. Simply jack up till the handle of the breaker bar or box wrench is going slightly upward and then for safety from slipping change the wrench again to have a good downward bite and continue again. You should only have to do this once though to loosen. You will hear the nut break loose and then you can use a 1/2" impact gun to remove the nuts when all are loosened. Now the Drive wheels helps if you have help to do the same thing but you will have to use 4/4" supports to support the end of the breaker bar with a short extention to get down inside of the wheel well. Use the shortest extention possible and be able to still use the 1" breaker bar. Support the breaker bar right where it connects to the short extention. This pressure will be great at the connection of the breaker bar and extention when you start jacking and will have to be balanced by a second person till you get pressure on the support blocks, but use a 2/4 to hold that set up in position incase it slips with all the maneuvering. This is for safety of your hands. You can do it alone but it is pretty tough to do that. Put the end of the 1" breaker bar in the middle of the jack head and slowly jack upward and before you know it you are loose as a goose and no effort or special compressor to remove. Remounting I recommend using a torque wrench to tighten the wheels to what the torque value of what the bus manufacturer recommends. It is near 450 lbs. but do not quote me on that. If you do not have a torque wrench consider renting one or borrowing one from another bus nut friend if possible. I hope this works for you, have a Merry "Christmas". Gary LaBombard | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A |
Bill, My bus has rght hand threads on all wheels. Check yours before trying. I read somewhere that the left hand threads had an L stamped on the end of the stud. Ed | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks Ed for pointing the possibility of the threads can be all right handed. Threads on some buses does not mean necessarly that all buses are the same. Check your manual or on this bulletin board for the model and year of your bus for information from others that can help. I am sure that "Luke" and "Rich" monitor this board every day as well and there is no better experts. Gary | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
I conquered the same problem, happened to come across a 3/4 or 1 in hose about 30 feet long. The increased size of the hose actually functions as a tank! One nut is about all that volume will do at a time, but in only seconds the hose/tank is full again, about the time it takes to get to the next nut. Saved carrying a tank, although that big hose is sorta bulky. I NEVER found a wheel nut it would not remove with ease! | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Rating: N/A |
The easiest way is to get a good 4-way truck lug wrench and a 2-3 foot piece of pipe to stand on, just jump on it a couple of times. Don't have the pipe very far from the ground and support the outer end of the lug wrench with a block or short step stool. It is far better to break loose nuts with a quick hit. A slow, high pressure can easily bend something (like the wrench) or break something. Shock is mush better. I've used this system for years on antique trucks. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Guys....The idea of using AIR to run a wrench is much better than the SIX hernias, Three broken fingers, Two fractured wrists and one bent lug wrench... Yeah it's the season !  Shop or Bus air supply of almost any kind.(even a cheapie pancake unit) 50 foot 3/8 Air hose. 9 Gallon Portable air tank. 25 foot 1/2 Inch air hose (HFT)or?? 3/4" or 1 " Impact Wrench & sockets. 1/2 Inch NPT Galavnized T-Fitting and short nipple. 1/4 Inch standard Male Air fitting. 1/2 Inch to 1/4 Inch reducing adapter. to adapt the air fitting to "T" ... 3/8 or 1/2 Inch Air fitting (Female) 2-each. 3/8 or 1/2 Inch air fitting (male) 2-each. 1/2 Inch Air Hose ( HFT )(the above fittings should fit hose.) And male one on air wrench. Take the original fill/fitting off tank. Install the "T" and fittings. (you can get a 4-way also and install an auxillary 1/4 female air fitting) Install the appropriate fittings on hoses and impact wrench. After you build the rig, then all you need is AIR, Impact wrench and sockets. Your kit would be 2 hoses, Impact Wrench, Sockets and a Jack. Wheel chocks & jack planks. Mine will handle 3 lug nuts before recharge which usually takes a minute or two. So after getting the wheels blocked and jack in position. Drag everything else out and into place. hook up the air lines. charge the tank and then its about 10 minutes per wheel. The two heaviest items are the jack and the impact wrench. My wife can/could change a tire on a bus as long as she can handle the impact wrench! Levers, Prybars, Pipes, Extensions,Torque multipliers and brute force human strength are not needed. The only other thing is handling the tire! If I can do it with a separated sternum with this rig almost anyone in reasonably decent or better health should be able to do it quicker. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
I quite agree Dave, have tried the long bars and other methods, however why duplicate the air? My thought was that the only time I would NOT have bus air would be when the bus engine would not run, in which case I couldn't care less about a flat tire. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Well, The long and short of using the bus air is that if the bus is aired up and the engine running to make air, There is a risk of the suspension shifting the weight and causing the jack to roll over. Many bus chassis have air leveler valves on each corner that is operated by the suspension travel. Jacking a wheel up potentially could cause he air leveleing system to reduce or apply extra pressure to relevel the coach. Some coaches only have 3 valves 2 in the rear and one in the front like many MCI chassis. Hey It was only a thought . I always let things settle a while before trying to lift. Uhh.. Well... Sometimes you might need to air up the suspension to be able to get a jack under the bus so the extra portable compressor comes in handy anyway. I have a Dewalt that does 160 lbs and works fairly well to air up tires. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Well, I am ever on the alert to people carrying too much stuff around. After several years of doing it, I pitched the spare, jack, 1 in impact, large spare parts, and almost got back to sensible weight. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
3/4 and1 inch air wrenches need VOLUME...You can get a 1/2" I.D air hose from HARBOR FREIGHT very reasonable. 3/8 won't cut it unless you have a very good 1 inch wrench.Yeah, I know, some have made it work. Even with that, you will be able to crack one to three loose at a time and let the air build back up.That Ingersoll Rand 1/2 inch super duty 2135 TI might do the job with a lot less weight. By the way...If you use an extension between any air wrench and it's socket, you will lose a lot of torque due to the play in the extra connections.If you need the length, you would be better off with a extended shank model or use a deep impact socket. | ||
| morgan Clough (Mclough777)
Rating: N/A |
well i must be the lazy one of the group. i bought the coach net deal for short money and let them change my tires while i stay in coach nice and dry. morgan | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Nope, you is da 200w bulb on this Christmas tree, morgan! | ||
| bill chisholm (Billybandman)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks guys, I have had the wheels/tires off many times but am NOT going to use the manual method, ever again, hopefully. Thats why I bought the impact. I threw the cheater bars in the scrap pile. They were fine when I was young and full of testosterone, but no more. I like Donald Lee's solution. Add 1 hose to my present equipment and it will work. Simple and to the point. By the way I have left hand nuts on the drivers side. How about you, right or left handed nuts? | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Hello wheel fasteners. Assuming that things have been done according to Hoyle.... Stud piloted wheels are fastened with left and right threads, according to side. hub piloted whels are fastened with the same threads all around. Stud pilot are the style that use the two piece fasteners for the duals, and are cone shaped nuts on the front, with chamfered holes in the rim. Hub pilot are the ones with the nuts that have the built-on clamping ring, smaller for the front, larger for the duals. The original coach purchaser was able to spec which they wanted, and you can change out to the other from what you had, so model and year is not a good indicator. I use a 4 foot piece of fence post as a cheater bar. When I get around to installing an aux air system, I'll have a compressor and tank, tied to the air system with a shut-off. Put the big air hose fitting into the compressor tank. Depending on conditions, both the engine and the compressor may be used to fill, or the coach engine may be shut off, and the coach air isolated, and run on the compressor alone. I echo the safety warning: I would be hesitant to run the coach engine or mess with the air pressure in the coach if it is up on a jack. I would be quite afraid of the chance of vibration causing it to fall off, tip over, or bury the jack deeper into the ground. My anticipated bad luck may not be the same as yours! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Rating: N/A |
Bill, I doubt that you are much older than I (76) and the cheater bar is much easier and quicker to break the nuts loose. I also use a two foot bar with my 200lb as a perfect torque wrench. No physical effort involved since all work is done by my weight on the bar. I do jump on the bar to loosen the nuts but jumping does not take a lot of energy. I run the nuts off and on with the 1/2" air wrench but it takes a hefty air wrench to break nuts loose, cheater is much quicker. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
A side note: Harbor Freight has a store sale on their 20 ton air over hydraulic jacks! A whopping $69!! Item No. 41487-2VGA | ||
| dougtheboneifiedbusnut
Rating: N/A |
Hey Buswarrior, Can you explain to me why,with good applied physics concepts, anyone would ever use left hand threads anywhere on any wheel. I would so love to hear an engeneer explain the theory to me.I will go to my grave with the opinion that if you apply the simple action /reaction theory,than if the drivers side wheel is spinning forward(counterclockwise) the lugs inherintely would spin in the oposite direction.Which is losening on a left handed lug. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Huh? What the *^% is this, some sort of brain twister? It would be the opposite rotation on the opposite side. Ok.... My turn. If a train left Chicago at 9 pm on the 11th, and a train left Pettysville at 11am on the 9th, and | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
Did you ever wonder why nuts loosen but they never tighten?:] | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Dunno. Mine are always tight. | ||
| Dale L. Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A |
Ok. Is the Chicago train diesel or steam?? And is it equipped for time travel?? | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Finite Torque from being north of the equator causes lug nuts to spin the wrong way. I dunno, There was an explanation going around a while back of why the left and right hand threads. I think it had something to do with the direction of rotation of the hub and although a loose lug might not tighten it may not just run off the threads as easily. It's actually an insidious plot to keep bolt and nut companies and tire shops in business.... | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Chrysler did the same--LH threads on the left side of their cars until 1970. Pain in the rear...I once saw a 1969 Dart that had 3 LH studs & 2 RH studs in the back--someone had snapped two studs & replaced them with the wrong ones. My 1/2" impact can pop loose the lugs on my bus...and yes, it's a Snap-On. I do use a large hose--I seem to recall 5/8". If all else fails, I have a 4' breaker bar & can slide a 3' pipe over it...figuring a 6' handle & my being ~250lbs, I can put an easy 1500lb/ft of torque to the lug. Then again, my wife managed to pop all the lugs on the RF loose a while back with just the breaker bar. (Show-off.) Does anyone else get the feeling I probably should not tick her off? | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
For Johnny and thos others old enough to remember, I also remember how many times when say turning the front brake drums, someone would put them on backwards! Yeah, the lefty nuts on the right side, and vice versa, easy to do. The thing that amazed me most is that when telling the owner, you found out that that brake job was done years ago, tens of thousands of miles ago, and never a problem - ever! I also remember driving them and having tire shops sit there with the impact turned to "take em off" position, and twist off every stud on that side! | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Rating: N/A |
History repeats, my 4104 lug bolt fronts are LH on the right side and RH on the left side. The rears are just the opposite! How many people know which side of a vehicle is which, a big part of the problem? | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Rating: N/A |
Our MC-8 has left hand threads on all wheels on the driver's side and right hand on all wheels on the passenger side. Years ago, when I worked for a Chyrsler-Plymouth-Doge dealer, Mopar used the same set up. Left hand threads on the driver's side and right hand on the passenger side. I have never seen anything in writing as to why this was done, just heard a lot of urban myths and wives tales. Hope this helps, Jack | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
For those of you who have an interest in the subject of right and left threaded lugs, I have found a page that was an eye opener for me. It is: www.boltscience.com/pages/failure4.htm If you read this carefully, you will see the effect of oversized bolts and chamfered nuts. I was really surprised to see how common the problem of loose wheels used to be and what happens when a larger bolt is used than is needed. The following page was helpful, too: www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/breaking-cranks.html It's quite a read! Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska |