| Author |
Message |
MarkScott
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 7:37 pm: | |
I would like to switch 12v and 120ac seperately using a residential style switch, a "decora" style rocker switch. The situation I have is 12v puck lights in the ceiling and 120ac rope lighting. I would like to use the same type of switch for both applications, wired seperately of course. Any thoughts, or what are you currently using. Thanks for your response. Mark |
Dale Fleener (Dale_mc8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 8:26 pm: | |
That's what I plan to do, based on the information I have gathered on this and other BBS's. It is my understanding that under about 60V, switch's don't care if they switch AC or DC.
Dale MC8 |
Cory Dane
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 8:49 pm: | |
I love the Decora style of switches.
My thoughts....
If you want the 12v halogen to come on at the same time as the 120v rope lights, you can do one of two things
first
You can have the switch open and close 12vdc, which will control a relay (or two) one for 12vdc and the other for 120vac. Using 12vdc allows the puck lights to work when not connected so you still have lights.
Second
If these are not criticle lights for lighting, you can use the decora to switch 120vac, with one line to the rope lights, the second to the 120v/12v transformer that the puck light comes with.
If you wire the lights to their own decora switch, you have made the wiring very easy, but you will take up a lot of switch plate space.
There are as many options to wiring as you can imagine, good luck in your endeavor
cd |
Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 9:22 pm: | |
Hi Mark it depends on how many dc lights you are wanting to switch. Remember that the 12 volt circut will not see as much voltage but may very well see more current than the 120 ac circut. More current at lower voltage still equals the energy it takes to light your area. The difference on DC is there is no 0 current time during the polerization change as in AC current. The 0 current time in AC allows for a cooling time that switch manufactures take advantage of. When using AC rated switches in a DC application try to keep the circut current to less than two thirds the rating on the switch. You will find that using the switch at max. AC rating the switch will eventually fuse the contacts together and will not allow you to shut off your lights. This is due largely to no cooling time during arc time of make and break. Best of luck . Tim |
Craig (Ceieio)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 10:17 pm: | |
Also - please don't put the AC and DC wiring in the same box. One little mistake, or a wire vibrating loose and you could have a fire or worse. Use to single boxes rather than a double gang box if you want the switches side by side.
Craig - MC7 Oregon |
James Smith (Tomcat)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:16 am: | |
I used a Decora double in my bathroom with excellent results.
Here is the link to a pic.
http://jsbird69.zoto.com/user/image_detail/IMG.97.8b4e4c32f250b59e066c89fba3c1cbdb-_CAT.0/ date_uploaded-desc/90-90
Jay Smith
87 SaftLiner |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 5:46 am: | |
Just read the little painted label on the side of the switch , IF it sez DC your fine.
If it doesnt the worst that "usually" happens is the switch burns out.
Mostly by failure to switch off , the contacts get melted together from breaking the DC.
DC switches ARE different , although not pretty the Cole Hersey stuff (marine) is rated for usually 15A of DC and work for decades.
Works for me,
FAST FRED |
Mark Scott
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 4:01 pm: | |
Thank you all for your input. I spoke with a electrical supplier today, he said I needed to look for a "T" rated switch. The decora style is rated only AC, and is noted on the switch. And it is. FF recommendations are good, and may be the safest solution to 12v switching. Mark |
Mark Scott
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 8:46 pm: | |
Hey Tomcat, are those fixtures 12v or 120AC. The switch looks nice. Mark |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 9:52 pm: | |
Mark -
Unless you're trying to control the fridge or fan, there won't
be too many amps to be handled with a couple of 12v light
bulbs. I've used conventional (cheap) 120v switches for
DC bulbs without any problem at all. |
James Smith (Tomcat)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 12:28 pm: | |
Mark,
The bath lighting fixture in my bus are 120v house fixtures, run on 12 volt DC, with 50 watt, medium base, 12 volt incandescent bulbs.
I plan to change them to 12 volt florescent bulbs soon, for less heat, as well as lower power draw.
Jay |
Dale Fleener (Dale_mc8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 5:04 pm: | |
Craig's post got me to thinking about single vs double boxes. Does anyone see a down side (of course someone does, that's what makes this BB so valuable) of cutting down a plastic single box and gluing it to another single box to make a double box with a partition in it? This would allow you to use a double faceplate for cosmetic purposes and still keep the two voltages isolated.
Dale MC8 |
David (Davidinwilmnc)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 5:51 pm: | |
I don't see a problem with having partitioned boxes (as long as the 110's box is completely enclosed). One thing that might make things easier is to use relays to switch the 110 volts. This way, you will be able to keep the 12/24 volts away from the AC in the boxes. Another nice benefit is reduced wiring when running AC lines for switches to the front and to the middle and rear of the bus ... as in 3- or 4-way switches. It will also make things easier, if one runs extra low voltage cable to the switches, to add additional switches later. The relays' low current draw will pretty much eliminate the problem of switching high current draw DC devices with AC switches. Just use a relay to control the 12 or 24 volt circuits too. I know people say that relays are introducing unreliability, but they really are reliable, used in 'most everything anyway, and are easy to replace (if you use the standard Bosch type). |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 5:46 am: | |
The danger of mixed voltages is someone could be working on the DC side and NOT realize the other wires can bite.
"MY Way" is to have the AC pannel on one side of the coach and the DC on the opposite wall.
The AC wiring is Boat Cable , very easy to identify (big & 3 wire) .
Works for me , so far , no bites!
FAST FRED |
David (Davidinwilmnc)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 8:35 am: | |
FF, Do you have a good source for marine cable? I've been looking and find it at high priced places like Boater's World. I would think the best thing to do would be to buy a roll/ spool of it for the best price. Any suggestions on where to get this cable for a reasonable price would be great! Thanks |
Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 8:57 am: | |
David
Surplus Boat Wire try--->
Surplus Unlimited - Daytona Beach
https://www.surplusunlimited.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=0400-99
Pete RTS/Daytona |
David (Davidinwilmnc)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 9:50 am: | |
That's just what I'm looking for. Thanks Pete! |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 5:37 am: | |
"Marine" wire is like everything else , it comes in grades.
I prefer Anchor brand as it has at least 10% More copper for each gage of wire.
That "extra" copper reduces voltage loss on long runs .
10ga is overkill for many circuits on a bus camper , so purchase a BIG ! roll and don't forget the correct wire terminal ends , and the GOOD ($50+) crimper to allow all the workmanship to be first class , first time!
With a 3X heat shrink cover , with internal glue , your wires will be better than factory , and they are usually still perfect after 40 - 50 years.
Only other worthwhile trick is the use of star washers under each terminal nut (allows for heat expanshion with outloosing good contact.)
Again , just how the factory did it.
Works for me,
FAST FRED |