| Author | Message | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Rating: |
Hello, I am deep in the thinking stage now for the installaton of my upgraded air brake system for my 1973 Model 05 Eagle, ("Rustless Money Pit"). I would appreciate any help possible from anyone who has done what I am looking to do. In order to satisfy me and know my bus is roadworthy I want to replace the entire system with a system more affordable than the (DD3)air brake canisters on my bus which are just out of the question to replace. I want to get information for part numbers that were used, the complete recommended lay out for the entire air system, (valves, check valves, etc.) needed to make a complete affordable brake system. I tried to get this information from Bendix but the information they sent was more for a system with anti-lock devise brakes which I beieve will not work for what I want to do. I am looking for the recommended air line supply sizes from tanks to valves etc. and anything needed for a complete safe system. Any help on this would be appreciated. Only another reason I wish I had some of this information I am still gathering now, 3-4 years ago. Hope some of these questions will be beneficial to newbie's and remember to have your Dream Bus Conversion (Inspected) before purchase or the words (Money Pit) will truly fit your project!! Thanks ahead of time for your information, Please contact me through (busconverter101@aol.com). Gary | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
Rating: N/A |
No Gary, You can't possibly mean for people to contact you directly - offline at your own email address - when you have asked such an important question. Ask yourself how much information you, personally, have gleaned from this bbs over the years. I want the answers to your excellent project details written right here so no one else ever has to ask again. So, if anyone is going to reply to Gary via his own email, please feel free to do so directly on this bulletin board system instead. He is signed up as a registered user of this board and has the option to receive your messages automatically to his email from the BNO BBS. Thank you. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Rating: N/A |
The direct contact for this request is to receive the drawings necessary to convert my bus air system as I would like to do. This request certainly is not to limit this information to just me but there are many, many bus nuts that will not post responses to the bb'd's. Contacting me through the BNO for all to see is absolutely recommended for all to see and share but to those not wishing to have their knowledge or recommendations questioned please still feel free to contact me directly and I assure you this information will be passed on by me in the future through BNO for all to appreciate after I have choosen the best installation for my particular bus. Perhaps a web page set up for information such as this request should be considered in the near future and archieved for things for us to do to our older bus conversions with newer equipment. I would easily pass on any of my information in this format to help others in the future. I have often stated in the past that all any one has to do to get information from me for a particular project I have worked on is request it from me and I would be pleased to share. The Converters archieve web page of information could be set up for Electrical up-grading for conversions, air brake and accessory modification for conversions, disassembly of windows etc. and re-skinning the correct way, proper application of Sikalex etc. The list would just go on and on. There is many, many little special tricks that have worked for us converters that can be a benefit to all. But again I also realize that not everyone would agree with all the recommendations. I certainly do not want to be in the middle of any disagreement of repair or conversion techniques between experienced converters. So that I do not get any more boring with my babbling here, if you have any information that will assist me with my desire to have recommendations by you for my request of a complete air system of a (1973 Model 05 Eagle) with bogie wheel in front of the drive wheels, with the use still of a air wipers also and I believe air assist clutch at this time, (I think) I would appreciate your contacting me in any way you wish but please be willing to share this knowledge with us all and me in particular or if you don't mind I would like to do it here myself in the future if you do not wish to on BNO. Again, Thanks ahead of time. Gary | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Re: "those not wishing to have their knowledge or recommendations questioned " "When one feels there is nothing left to learn, that person is either dead, comatose, or an idiot." [anonymous] | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Unless you feel that the original brake system was not adequate, you just have to replace the DD-3 chambers with spring brake chambers, of the same size, to get the same amount of braking. If your Eagle has size 30 DD-3s currently, then size 30 spring brake chambers will fit the same mounting with all service brake air lines the same size. The park brake feature is completely different and you have to use the air line diagram for a spring brake system and connect the dash valve to provide pressure to the chambers when you want to release the brakes and release the pressure to park. You will no longer use the inversion valve or the park brake pressure regulator but go direct to the spring (parking) chambers. Spring brake chambers are longer than DD-3 chambers so be sure there is room to mount them. | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Gary & Folks: I am curious as to what problems you are experiencing with your air brake system, including the DD3 chambers, that is too expensive to repair or maintain??? When your coach was manufactured, the Braking system was engineered,(as a complete air brake system), according to the (then existing) Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Specifications. It was proven, tested and certified to be SAFE for passenger service!!! Let us assume someone provides you with schematics and plans to change your system, and you do. Now, let us, (and hopefully it does not happen), assume that your vehicle has been involved in an accident. And let us further assume that the ammended Brake System could be determined to be a contributory cause of the accident!!! In the Society which we live in, it could happen!!!! When there is an accident, everyone gets dragged into it, and if you don't believe it, there are current ongoing discussions on several bus Boards, about recent accidents, as I type this!!!! Gary, if I were spending my Money and Building my Dream, (and recognizing that the Coach is the Foundation of the House that your Building!!!), I would repair or rebuild the Brake System as Built!!! Just my Opinion for what it is worth after spending my entire 43 year working career in the Bus Industry!!!!! I Hope this HELPS!!! Happy & SAFE!! Bussin' to ALL. LUKE at US COACH | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Rating: N/A |
Luke, Thank you for the insight about liabilities to those changing a air system from the original design, that is one more reason I requested that someone contact me directly rather than post all that information on a bulletin board. That way I am the one accepting the resposibility of accepting the information and using it and not promoting anyone else necessarly to do the same. To answer your question about the original design, the design is good, I have no doubt about that but the spare parts cost from dealers is sometimes so high I can't consider purchasing. I have been quoted by a local dealer to replace my (DD3) canisters alone at the cost of ($650.00 approx. Ea). Now I did not shop around through all the bus parts dealers as I was pretty sure that that price would be setting the bar for most dealers selling anythng that old in design. The reason I am replacing the entire system is like everything else I have found in this bus, It must of been in the Ocean for a year with the Titanic. I did dis-assembly of lots of the air line fittings to replace them as they really were showing signs of deteriation bad time and for safety I planned to replace everything. As I disassembled them several of them broke off in my hand, they absolutely were (Rust Welded to support brackets) etc. The air tanks had pin holes all the way through them behind the brackets holding them in place, the hoses were fraying apart from chaffing all over the lot etc. I can go on but have babbled enough over this. I would like nothing better than to follow the mfg. design but after pricing just the (DD3) canisters I want a system that is affordable and all valving systems compatible for future replacement if ever needed in my life time. I can't imagine what any of the valves cost to replace, I didn't even want to go there after pricing the canisters. I requested help in thinking of what to do from those experts that I know have done many important changes to their vehicle above and beyond what the bus engineers thought of doing with todays technology of this type of information. It is unfortunate that the spare parts market has to be so high for some spare parts for these old girls as we would all be trying harder to maintain the original design intended at the time of mfg. I am sure I will not receive any ledgitimate air system suggestions in this open forum now and I do appreciate any information that has offered so far. I can publicaly state I will not hold any one responsible for any information I have choosen to use from those willing to share in any questions I may raise on any of these bb'ds. With only 3-4 years experience so far at this hobby I have learned the hard way to evaluate information and then decide myself what to do with this information. I think I am whipping a dead horse here now, thank you to those responding. Gary | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, I can understand you wanting an all new system, but Luke raises very good points. To solve your problem, I would urge you to check into more sources and ways to get what you want. As a slightly different take on what Luke is saying, I think that the most important thing is to avoid accidents. The next most important thing is to make sure that your choices, if an accident was to occur, did not amount to negligence. If you do these two things, you might stay out of the soup and be able to keep what is yours. Much of what constitutes negligence is related to whether you could foresee a personal or property injury resulting from some action or lack of action on your part. That's why so many people just do what everyone else does; it seems like a safe harbor. If you have a duty to do something, it won't protect you to point to everyone else ignoring the duty. If you want to convert something from one thing to something else, you should only do it if you can prove that the conversion is safe; do you see how restoring an already approved system makes it easy to avoid liability? I'm sorry your coach was in such tough shape. You might consider getting what you want from a donor coach; in any case, I think that you can get DD3 chambers for much less money than you were quoted. Good luck with your coach. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Gary - As soon as anyone brings up "liability issues", and/or assignment of blame for injuring someone else due to our negligence, it is absolutely normal for us to turn a deaf ear. It's like having mom tell us not to run with scissors, or how we're going to go blind if we don't stop... So aside from any liability issues of doing anything "our way" (never happens), looking at the more practical issues will provide you with a better answer. The original air brake system was designed for optimum bus safety. It was specifically engineered to be used with buses. What you will have to do, is re-engineer the -entire- system, not simply replace one type cannister with another type. Stan pointed that out quite well. Aside from parking brake issues, there are also the inherent timing issues; how long it takes the cannister to apply the brakes, and to what degree. We're all mechanics at heart, but unless we hold the expertise to re-engineer the entire brake system of an 11 ton vehicle, it's best to repair/replace with the same, approved and engineered parts. There are a number of very qualified engineers that read and post here. I sincerely doubt they refuse to speak up for fear of argument, or some assumed fear of being sued... I would think it's more of a non-issue; the absence of comment due to the sheer complexities of the task... I.e.: Why bother. Some things in life are best left alone. I think you just stumbled into your first. | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
JohnMC9: Changing from a DD-3 size 30 to a spring brake chamber size 30 or even a single chamber size 30 should have no effect on brake timing or braking force. All size 30 chambers have the same surface area of diaphragm that the air pushes on. Unless the brake adjustment is changed, the pushrod will move the same distance in the same amount of time. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
On the dual non-spring types, don't they take less air volume, since no spring must be compressed? The amount of air volume (not pressure) was what I understood was the major difference to be considered... (that was the explanation given to me, when I asked the same question). Also, do you see any other problems with the type of change Gary wishes to do? Or is it better to leave things as-is? (without any "liability" stuff, please) (Thanks ahead of time, for a learning experience, Stan!) | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
I believe that the inferior emergency brakeing provided by springs over DD3 alone would negate anyone wanting to change. For most people, if something goes wrong, they want to stop QUICKLY, not brag about how much money they saved by stopping a few feet AFTER the impact point!! | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Rating: N/A |
To those above actually giving me good advice and some technical information to consider and support without going off in the "Liability" issues, I truly thank you. Now here is where I think we are at and appreciate any respect given to listen to what I am wishing to do. (1) Everyone who has ever seen any of my posts knows that ("Safety") is the #1 priority on my "Rustless Money Pit" conversion project. In the CD I have made and published I think and stress Safety on every issue of information I offer, from the right Personal Protective Equipment to wear when you are working or doing complete undercarriage inspection or actual repair work. I assure you, my motive of complete safety has never waivered and never will, when you see my Eagle on the road and you pass me by you can feel I have done everything I possibly can to make you, your family, your property (bus), and anyone safe within all my power concerning my personal Eagle if and when I drive it on the road. Now that I have said that, again here is what I wish to "think" of doing to my air system. (2) All parts on my bus now are requiring replacing for "Safety". As stated I have found areas of Danger that scare me and again everyone's safety is important that I meet in my travels if I ever get to that point. I have taken many parts to a local Bendix supply house near by that supplies parts for the biggest trucking fleets in the country. Some of the parts (Directional Valves etc. I will refer to them) are un-recognizable to them, (must be newer employees). They offered to research using my Air Schematic from Eagle Mfg. as I know I can also through bus parts suppliers and get the product replacement recommended per mfg. But, I am guaranteed that the ($$$) figure is not what I would want to hear or consider because of the rarity of some of these parts. I was hoping to get legitimate information to "consider" with changing the "Entire" air supply system. As I stated also all exposed air lines are frayed, break off in my hand at brackets or bulkhead fittings when any light pressure is applied for disassembly. Now is this safe or what?? What would happen if I took this bus as bought and was told by the previous owner, (Gary) go get inside this bus and head to California with confidence if you wish!!! Can you imagine the breakage withing my air system from the road vibrations and these hoses etc. just dangling all over the lot?? You have to know I am trying to do the right thing here right now for safety and not necessarly tell other newbies in particular to do what I have done. This information is for me and I will gladly share after testing of many miles of coarse but will also always include a (disclaimer) that anything I have done may not have been done like recommend by the manufacturer and all things like that. I want to stay away from darn "Liability" issues here but got side tracked. If I do an entire system, I want all the parts to be compatible in the system and not use Old with new if affordable in every way. For instance here also, my entire air supply line is 1/4" feeding the air tanks and 3/8 ID feeding from the back of the bus to the front. Also, I had only 3 air tanks in my bus, (1=wet tank, 2= emergency brake supply tanks)!! The wet tank was also supplying the air directly to the front brakes actuating valve for the front brakes, there was not an air supply tank in front!! The list of air supply infractions just goes on. This is what I know about the (DD3) air chambers; The 3rd air port on the back end of the chamber's function is only used for an exhaust which is now done on the bottom of the newer brake chambers instead of being piped to a special exhaust valve. That is it!! At least that is what I am told by the dealers in my area?? What do I know, that is why I am here now. Now I will listen to anyone with real bendix knowledge if there is more reason to spend up to ($650.00)each to replace my particular (DD3) chambers if there is something other than being of a dinosaur design for today's use that warrants this price. I saw one on Ebay a couple of days ago, ($450.00) for one only available. Now give me a break here. My dream bus is slowly becoming a nightmare bus and I do not want to even get discouraged here but I am sure I am not the only converter wishing for manufactured parts to be of a more reasonable purchase price for new parts in particular. "Buying used" chambers, valves for any of my Air System parts except maybe the windshield wiper is totaly out of the question. (3) I know of a fellow I met at Arcadia that has done so many amazing things to his bus and will not embarass him by bringing his name into this post or put him on the spot but he has done virtually everything I am sure he was told is impossible and completely out of the manufacturers conversion or repair recommendations. He has supplied his bus with a series 60 cat engine, has changed the arrangement of the bogie wheel for the drive wheel axles, installed a dump truck drive axle upside down for mounting in his bus and drives it all over the country. My point is that anything can be done if researched like I am attempting to do here still, evaluate and present to others, (I thought) in a forum for evaluation also. I know there is a lot of excellent advise out there and hopefully those fully understanding I am not trying to re-invent the wheel here. I too just want a safe vehicle for me and my family to enjoy at a cost that is affordable and I also know there are newbies out there wanting to know the pitfalls of something like this because of the age of some of these old girls. They have to be informed into the "Real" world what is entailed to do a hobby like this, they have to know the full "Liability" issues involved with converting a vehicle of this age, and the terrible cost of maintainence if needed and I know of very few that can satisify my inspection now if I were a buyer again. As I have also commented in the past, I got my self into this perdictiment alone, I have been working my butt off to correct this expensive mistake and document and offered to help any one else thinking of doing it with my information I have documented up to this date. I just hate so much giving up on this search for true help in deciding without the "Liability" threat if you do decide to help me decide what is best. I sure am not going to get another "Parts" bus I can assure you, These problems happen over age to all buses in time I am sure just like our bodies. How long can a bus stay 100% safe without upgrading or preventitive maintenance. I wish I knew how to spell good and did better with my grammar in school, I should of paid attention in school so I may have done something safe like become a writter!! I have been told many like my stories but my spelling and grammar sucks!! I am 61 very soon, how much time for re-education do I have left?? I am trying to get safety informaton here while in the learning mode. I hope you have not gone to sleep reading this. Thanks so much again for what information those of you did offer above, but just keep in mind when you see my posts about the (Rustless Money Pit), that "Safety" is and always will be a #1 Priority with my conversion even if I never get to drive my Eagle on the road because of serious parts cost issues. The "Liability" issues do not need to be considered by you in your answers to my personal quest for knowledge from the more experienced at this hobby when you send or offer me more experienced information to consider. Thanks so much again for all this time of yours that I took in your reading this and your comments above. Gary | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Gary: I am not in a position to design a brake system for your bus. The only thing I know for sure is that a spring brake system is simpler and less costly. JohnMC9: There are two diaphragms in a spring brake chamber. When you push in the dash button you apply full tank pressure to the park brake diaphragm which compresses the spring. It stays in that position until you pull the park button out. The rest of the time, air is only used to push on the service brake diaphragm. A DD-3 also has two diaphragms and air is applied to the park brake diaphragm to set the brake. When the park brake is released only the service diaphragm gets air, the same as the spring brake. Personally, I would not start to design a complete brake system. However, I might take the air diagram and parts list for a 102c3 and follow that. (That is not legal advice). As far as changing from DD-3 chambers to spring brakes, I did it on my MC-7 Combo because my previous experience with DD-3s was having to special order parts and wait for delivery as well as having one diaphragm costing more than two new complete spring brake chambers. Dontx: Do you know how much difference there is in park brake force between the two types. A DD-3 park brake is supplied with air from a pressure regulator. If you set it with full tank pressure it would be impossible to move it further in order to release the lock. IIRC the DD-3 is set with about 80 PSI and the spring brake is released with somewhere between 60 and 80 PSI. Maybe you have more accurate information than that. As far as stopping quickly, I think the spring brake will have full travel long before air pressure builds up in the DD-3 | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
I used to have the exact figures, but the secret is the letters PSI. IF the park diaphram is say close to the 30 square inch area relatively standard in braking, then there are 30 TIMES the example of 80 per square INCH, making the parking and emergency brake pressure 2400 lbs of force, compared to the 80 lbs on the spring brake. Someone with more accurate figures will probably pop up with them, I think the spring brake spring is more than that example if I recall correctly. Something sticks that the DD3 is three times as strong, been too long to remember. I DO recall that applying the spring brakes to my loaded Kenworth was about the same as opening the doors for air resistance braking, but hitting the button for the DD3 will certainly unload your kitchen cabinet and let you know what furniture you forgot to bolt down! I did not know all this originally, and was engineering a change to spring brakes on my bus. Years ago that was, but none other than our own Luke made me lots smarter. Remember that Luke? Just drop by Luke's shop and ask for him to change you over to spring brakes, Betcha he won't do it, no way! | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach)
Rating: N/A |
Gary: You have made your intentions very clear with your last post. What I sense is a bunch of "frustration", and it troubles me when folks are frustrated with something that should be a "Labor of Love". Hit on my name at the top of this post(On the Board) and E-Mail me your contact info. I will call you tomorrow, go over your situation, with the understanding that you then come back to the Board with the solutions we have come up with. I believe that you can maintain you existing system, and hopefully within your budget. Notice no (!) tonight. I told you I broke the key for it. Happy & SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bussin' to ALL. LUKE at US COACH | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Dontx: You are confused on the 80 pounds on the spring brake. I don't remember the exact pressure called for on the DD-3 regulator but I think it was about 80 PSI which is applied to the 30 square inches on the diaphragm. On the spring brake you apply somewhat close to the same pressure (60-80 PSI) to a 30 square inch diaphragm to compress the spring. Theoretically, a spring should give up the same amount of energy when released as was stored in it when compressed. In other words, the spring applies as much braking force as the same amont of air pressure applied to the service brake. BTW: Both types are called parking brakes and are usually only installed on one axle for parking purpose. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
As I recall the air pressure required to compress the spring is only in the neighborhood of 25-30 lbs, thereby "cocking' the spring to be ready to apply that same force when released. The force applied on the diaphram for a DD3 to park is approximately three times that, and there comes the old "three times as strong of brakes". Of course we are playing with words here, neither will roll off when parked. | ||
| Mark Kirby Rating: N/A |
Gary If you ever get everything you asked for, please pass it on to me. My reasoning is slightly different, in that I have a Belgium made Eagle. When I have a part failure, I can't easily find a replacement part. I'm with you, I'd like to install new parts for reliability and to make sure my entire system is safe. | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A |
Gary I've got nothing off value to add to this thread, however I have to ask so I can learn something. When did CAT (my favorite engine BTW) start making a series 60 engine ? And I hope your friend took that axle out from under the dump truck first! Kust kiddin' on the axle LOL! | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Rating: N/A |
Bryce, I may have gotten my information mixed up about my friend's huge Cat engine in his 1972 Eagle, I have a tendency to get mixed up at times sorting out all this information posted on the bb'd and apologize for the wrong engine size for this conversion upgrade. Those of you who know this (engineer / converter) know of what engine it is and who he is. Go and look at my Arcadia pictures, ("Buses of Ingenuity") file to see the bus I am talking about and I will surely stand corrrected and admit to it. I believe my pictures of his engine upgrade is the third picture in that photo file. Thank you for the correction after viewing. Go to: http://community.webshots.com/user/converter101 I do not mind being kept honest and straight on anything I am absolutely incorrect on when posting here. Gary | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Rating: N/A |
I just had to chime in here with my 2 cents worth. I have an old Loadstar 1800 tandem axle dump truck. It has 20 brake chambers & came with an 'OH JESUS!!!' stick for a park brake (it didn't work well as evidenced by the frontal bruises on the truck). I added 20-24 (20 service - 24 park brake) chambers to replace the existing chambers on the rear tandem only. All I had to do was run an air line to the dash valve & a line to the new quick exhaust valve added at the rear axle & then run the lines to the spring part of the new brake chamber. If applied, the truck won't move. This truck has very, very low gearing & will smoke the clutch if you try to move with the spring brake applied. As far as liability goes with the DD3; Are they being used on any current manufacture truck or bus? If you have a major air system failure, you have no brakes. That is why I like the spring park brakes. No air, no move. If the air pressure drops below 60 PSI, the spring brakes self apply & if you're lucky, you have just enough time to move off the road. Since the new stuff seems to be using the spring park brakes, I don't see how there is any liability from switching over since you are upgrading to the current technology (but I ain't no litigation lawyer either). After looking at the diagrams in my service manuals, it's my opinion that the DD3 system is overly complex (when compared to a spring park brake system) & has many more places to fail. I have read where the DD3's released & allowed the bus to move. (I believe it was a worn out wedge cam on the rod.) I don't know much about the history of the DD3, But I imagine it is similar to the old wedge brake that was made obsolete by the S-cam brakes which provide better service. As far as brake application timming issues go... IF you are changing out from DD3 to the spring type, change all the valves & etc to ensure compatibility. The braking system works as a SYSTEM (with all parts functioning in relation to the others) and needs to be treated as such. As this was my 2 cents worth, it should be treated as such & due to inflation, it may not be worth much. kyle4501 I'm planning to visit this issue on my bus when I get her home so as to have a current system that can be serviced with off the shelf parts. | ||
| Tom Hamrick (Tomhamrick)
Rating: N/A |
I don't know which model was first, but the Eagle model 10s have the spring brakes. I have one of the rare birds that does not have a bogie/tag axle and one of my brake test(per the driver's manual is to apply the Park/Emergency brake at a speed of 15-20 MPH. On my concrete driveway this test will lock the rear wheels and leave black marks and as Don says "it will unload the kitchen cabinets". As long as the rest of the system (shoes, drums, relays, air lines, brake pedal,..ect.) is in good shape and properly adjusted either system should be fine. Tom Hamrick 1984 Eagle 10S | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
Tom, is this the 35' suburban model Eagle? Richard | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Kyle: I agree with you that the DD-3 system is complex and one of the reasons people have a hard time understanding how it works. I think 'brake timing' is a vastly over rated thing that has been brought up in these threads on several occasions. There are far more important things than the microseconds difference in time for air to move down a pipe. Consider a few of the following: wear in the cam bushings, shoe return spring tension, lubrication of all the moving parts, adjustment of the slack adjuster, position of the roller on the cam. Now consider the road condition, the tire condition, the tire tread, the weight on each axle relative to design weight, and the list goes on. A modern ABS system is currently the best available since it deals with most of the variables when you call for maximum braking. The fifty year old technology on older buses is not too highly refined. | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, Wow I like it! I love that color yellow! I once got thrown out of a DD Franchised shop after $15,000 a bunch of hasseles & headaches, about 6 wks down time (spread out over 4 months) 14 times in and out of the shop! I had a '96 Peterbuilt (1 of 5 trks I had at the time) which blew the engine just outta warranty, but the shop foreman tells me I'll tell ya what I'm gonna help ya out here and work a deal so you don't pay the whole shabang for a new engine! So then he tells me for $10K hell not only replace that worn out 430hp series 60 but he'll do better than that he'll put a 500hp new engine! for $10K give or take a little for odds and ends! Well after 16 days (was supposed to be done in 5!) I go to pick up my trk. Yep "brand new shiney look'n" engine, but wait whats miss'n here? Hey, hey dude (mechanic checking hose clamps and etc.) wheres my hood? AHHH I dunno, but I don't think it's back from the body shop down at the KW dealer, you'll have to ask Ken! Ok wheres Ken? Ahhh I think down at the KW dealer wait'n on the hood! So I get in the P/U trk and tear outta there head'n to the KW dealer(we'd passed it on the way in, and Debbie yelling what the **** is wrong?) I pull in the KW dealer and this guy I don't even know meets me as I get outta my P/U. Hey you must be Bryce, I'm Ken your early but it's no big deal yer trks just about ready! So I ask what the hecks the deal with my hood and why is it at a body shop! Ah well when the guys where using the fork lift to bring it in the shop they dropped it and not realizing the brakes were caged and the driveshaft was out of it from being towed in the one who was steering it couldn't stop it and ran up under a trailer trying to get stopped, but it just knocked the fender off it and these guys have it fixed and I'm headed back to put it on now! So I ask let me get this straight you've wrecked my trk and not told me about it and brought it down here had it fixed and were just gonna put it back on and not tell me? Uhh wel uhh yeah thats pretty well it. I was so mad I had to walk away before I ended up in jail! So debbie being the peace maker she is asks well how long before it'll be ready so I can bring him back then? About 2 hours. So 2 hrs later I pull back up a can tell from 100' away the hood is warped all to heck and the driverside fender is 4' higher than the other, I'm so mad I can't see straight. But I already have a load booked and still have to stop and pick up my trailer on the way! I go inside and am told the bill is $14,800 I lose it asking where Doug? (the one I'd been dealing with on the phone) he's out of town at a seminar! Well he told me around $10K! Thats right but he had to do this, this, this, and is showing me a three page sheet of "extra odds and ends" Well to make a long story shorter, Deb wrote a check because we were in a bind and had to get going before I screwed up and lost the load ! So I leave I don't 60 miles down the road and it starts overheating, I call and talk to Ken 1st thing he says well you know thats a new engine and needs to be broke in, how heavy a load are ya pullin? I lose it and asked did you see a trailer behind me as I pulled out? He tells me bring it back but it'll be tomarrow before we can do anything, we're fix'n to close for the night! Oh no you ain't! I'm fix'n to put a stop payment on that check and boot up yer ***! Ok well hurry back I'll keep 1 mechanic here & we'll get it taken care of! Well I go back and while I'm inside talking to him, he has this young guy maybe 20yrs old out there swapping thermostats (and burning himself while doing it! Deb's sit'n right beside him watching this but they don't realize it I guess, he comes in and Ken asks him what he found, he says a loose ground wire, it wasn't really overheating the gauge was giving a bad reading! So I leave (Deb tells me on the cb what was done). But it's running ok. So I get the trailer and go to pick up the load 2hrs late (but they understand) get loaded drive all night and keep having to turn my fan on for long pulls! I get to Elpaso in the AM we get unloaded & I call the DD shop and tell him it's still running hot in the hills! He tells me it's still probably the gauge and I tell him Deb watched the kid change the thermostats burning himself and just throwing the hot 1's on the ground! He tells me well run yer fan an bring it back in! I deadhead all the way back to MO! Put it in the shop 4 more days. Pick it up it runs fine no overheating, but is a dog on power! Well as I said above after 13 times in the shop and 4 months of "dealing with them" On the way back for the 14th time I stop at a CAT dealer and pick up 4 cans of CAT yellow spray paint! I take it to the shop and let them "look at it" after about 2 hrs I take the paper bag with the paint and set it on Ken's desk and ask him to do me a favor? He says sure, if I can! So I tell him I'm fed up with this thing running worse than the lower hp 1 that had blown up and if they couldn't amke it run like it should could they take this (handing him the bag) and at least make it look like it had power! Oh man I finally hit the nerve that they had hit me with the day of the hood incident! I was told to leave the property and not come back! Ya know what it was worth it and under similar circumstances I'd do it again! (still got 4 cans of CAT yellow on a shelf in the shop! LOL! I love a CAT! WALKIN THAT DAWG, KICK'N THAT CAT's WHERE IT's AT!!! WHOOP WHOOP!!!Passin Thru! 'AT'S RIGHT LEFT LANE CHICKEN HAULER COME 'N THRU!!!WHOOP WHOOP (whoop whoop is those train horns blast'n!) Glad your good natured about a little rib'n Gary as you can tell I'm CAT all the way an if these buses were mine they'd all have CAT's in 'm WHOOP WHOOP (yeah I put a set on my Setra, but I have to use caution when to honk 'm with passangers on board!) | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A |
Opps sorry guys I didn't realize that was so long until I looked at it! But I do LOVE CAT's! As long as we're talking engines I'm alergic to thse 4 legged things! Bo likes 'm tho' I think he thinks they taste like chicken! Yeah he came back to his senses and his master lay'n right beside me now! | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
OHC! | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A |
OHC? | ||
| Sonnie Gray (Catskinner)
Rating: N/A |
To those who wonder if changing to spring brakes will work, the answer is YES. When I installed the Cat in my 0/5 Eagle, I did a lot of other modifications also. Which included relocating the drive axle to the forward location, which included installing a new drive axle from a salvaged tractor, and by the way it is flipped over backwards and has 2.93 gears. Of course there were people who said this would not work. I also installed a 25000 lb., air lift tag axle, which also has parking brakes. Yes I installed all new air lines and valves which included a new and up- dated tredle valve. I now have over 35000 miles on this setup without any problems, from the East coast to the West coast. So, ok! I am open for comments. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Sonnie: Lucky you. Bryce: OHC = Oh Holy C rap Sonnie - Yeah, anything can be done. But it should be known, that this forum is read by people like me. Although the modifications that have been done, cost the doer no expense and no problems, it does not make it right, or safe. We/re still waiting to hear from Rich and Luke, both professionals and trustworthy, to give their input and advice..... I'd like to see how the professionals feel about giving advice regarding major changes to engineered designs. | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A |
Catskinner? Hum yeah uh got Bo's atten! He sat right up and is looking at me with that head cocked sorta to the side and those golden eyes that you see right into, saying cat? catskinning? where ? when? Ya you know that's my game! Yeah Sonnie it's offical we like the "handle" & definetly like what little I saw of yer bus in those pics off that pretty yellow engine! One question is that the same bus with the Space Shuttle Nose cone? I figure it's almost gotta be! Lets see O H C did he say 2.93 gears? I can hear my police scanner now! Ahhh dispatch this is car 54 I'm in pursuit of a ahhh never mind could you call NASA and tell'm that the space shuttle just made an emergency landing over hear on US 51 outside of Troy, TN and is still rolling about 160mph! Over! Yup, if that CAT, that nose cone, and 2.93's are on the same bus (I see why it has the nose cone off a space shuttle for aerodynamic stability at speeds it's capable of!) Oh yeah those super polished 24.5's are way cool too! I LIKE IT, A LOT! Badddd to the Bone! Uhhh hey guys ah my 40th birthday is Monday if ya wanna buy that bus from Sonnie an give it to me as a group present from the board so I can have a conversion of my own to tinker with so I won't be left out on so many conversion topics!!!hmmm Likes it a whole lot! Did I mentiom i LOVE CAT'S!!!! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
Bryce said "Did I mentiom i LOVE CAT'S!!!!" Manx, Persian or Siamese?  | ||
| Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Rating: N/A |
Sonnie, I sure did not intend on you being in the lime light here, you know that. Infact, as far as I am concerned this thread is done!! I have too much respect for Sonnie as the man and bus converter to continue in this format as I can see where it is going. If you haven't seen Sonnie's bus to see the quality and safety features he has installed in his redesign you have no idea what you are talking about. Any contact about this will have to be opened by Luke or Rich for any continuance by me. Thanks again for participation in this thread. Gary |
