| Author | Message | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Several years ago, every province in Canada adopted compulsory Air Endorsement on driver's licence to drive a vehicle with air brakes. For a motorhome, you can still drive with a class 5 (passenger automobile) but you have to attend an appoved air brake training course and have the air endorsement. This course is 12 hours of classroom instruction on how the system works and how to use it. Comments on all the bus boards by people who are driving their own buses indicate that this requirement should be universal. | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
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Amen! | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
I don't know about making a certified course manditory , as the fact you had to pass the comercial driver exame to get the required Class 3 with Air driver licence to operate your MCI or Prevost or Heavy Class A Motor Home with 3 axles is more than sufficent credentials, reguardless of how you learn or in this senerio "paid to train you". To make a course manditory sugest that there testing at the driver licence office is inadequate and if that is the conclusion then upgrade the testing by all means of legislation (but wait, didn't most province recently undergo a upgrade to the system of graduated driver licences ,hum , me smells more $ for private education made MANDITORY ONCE again, guess we are changing the old slogan Only in Canada` ah) That said, I have often woundered if the difference in needing a Class 3 Air in Canada isn't the reason that we have such a low ratio of Heavy Class A RV/Bus conversions (those with more than 2 axles) which makes me somewhat envious of our southern neighbors, but laws/regulations must be made fair and consitient in the way there written as well as implemented (OK so I am grasping at dreams here, but do at try to make my dreams and greiviences come true with resposible effort at least). | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
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I took the course at a local community college when I first got my bus. It was well worth it. The nice thing, in addition to the training, was that I was able to complete the required written and practical tests at the college. The certificate of successful completion (not just attendance) was what I had to provide to obtain the airbrake endorsement on my driver's licence. DaveD | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
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I think you can still obtain an airbrake endorsement in Ontario by completing written and practical tests at the driver's licence office, but having the training strikes me as an easier approach to getting the endorsement. If you take heart all that the training covers, it should help you be a safer driver as well, IMHO. DaveD | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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Truthhunter, No requirement that I am aware of that you have to pass a class 3 drivers test to operate a bus conversion. I know I never had one. Richard | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
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Yes Canada has the right idea, in the US "if it's a motorhome any body can drive it!" no special endorsements ! Nothing, get in it start it and go! Now I know I'm gonna get flak on this because the ones I'm talk'n about ain't the ones that participate on this board as I've seen most everybody who takes the time to be on here displays an appreciation for safety! But there are MANY OWNERS/DRIVERS of huge motorhome and bus conversions that shouldn't be on the road at all! That's in a car, let alone a 40,000 to 60,000 pound RV. But because it is a privately owned RV there are no special requirements! Oh lets see we go this way, I'll set the cruise control at 45 MPH on a 70 MPH interstate and wander lane to lane and half in between, "hey watch it ya stupid trucker can't ya see I'm have trouble keep this big ol' thing on the road! I don't need you crowd'n me!!! Oh that was my exit!" then slams on the brakes still half way out in the lane of traffic and trys to back up to the ramp 1/2 mile back!!!!! Yeah ok guys go ahead and start slam'n me now! But like I said it's not you guys and I know you've all seen the exact ones I'm talking about that far outnumber the safety minded bunch that post on here ! The ones I'm talk'n about think a pretrip inspection means check the fridge make sure there's milk, OJ, eggs, wine and cheese. Check the cupboard oh yeah there's my bottle of scotch! Then check the medicine cabinet lets see ya there the Valiums, the lortabs and the percadans (or however it's spelled I'ain't even sure what they're for) Yep ready to go! | ||
| Jim Stewart (H3jim)
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I have a class B non commercial, and I thought the California requirements were woefully inadequate. I think some course maybe at juior college would be a good idea. | ||
| R.J.(Bob) Evans (Bobofthenorth)
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I hold a Class 1A license. I took my air endorsement at a training centre where they specialized in truck driver training. I'm not sure it should be compulsory but I know I got a better education than someone who just read the book and challenged the exam. In particular they had an "air board" where they had all the typical brake components mounted on a board so we could see how they all related to each other. I took that course close to 15 years ago now & I know I have a better grasp of how an air brake system works than most of the drivers I hire every year. I'm talking about me who sits in front of a computer screen knowing more about air brakes than so-called professional drivers that I hire to haul fertilizer. That is entirely a result of seeing the brake system laid out logically on a board and having an instructor walk us through it c/w trying to figure out how it all fits together on the dirty side of a vehicle. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
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Hi Bob I went through a very similar procedure. A one full day training semenar at a professional truck driving school, with all the equipment in the classroom. I obtained the endorsement one week before picking up the bus. Joe. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
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Stan Are you in the Edmonton area? | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
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I agree with Mr. Knuckle...but the same could be said for a lot of truckers too. They fly by me at 85+mph with radar detector, probably low on sleep and high on something illegal...even yakking on cellphones! Some are overloaded and probably wouldn't pass inspection. Special license or no it boils down to personal responsibility and awareness of your machine and surroundings. Don't know for a fact but I'd be willing to wager that there are more firey crashes involving semis than large RV's. But yeah, the folks who drive 45mph in the left lane should be yanked off the road permanently. So should the reckless a-hole truckers. With my knowledge and experience now I know I could probably pass my state's CDL written and road test and after a few years of tinkering with my bus I bet I'll be much more intimate with its systems than many straight up operators. The thing that seems most suspect to me with hobby bus owners are those who want to modify the stock brake/air system. Like many have pointed out that stuff was designed that way for a very very good reason. | ||
| Mark K Rating: N/A |
Lets see, how did that go. In Texas we needed the Class A Exempt (non CDL) to drive ANYTHING with a gross over 26,000 (yes that includes an RV). The problem with this Class A Exempt is that we couldn't get the Air Brake Endorsement that was needed to drive in Canada. Went back and got the Class A CDL just for that reason. | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
I haven't heard of any place in Canada that requires a Class 3 with Air Endorsement unless you are pulling a trailer over 10,000 pounds. Personally, I think a Class 3 should be required for large vehicles even non commercial. What I see so often is the 65 year old retiree who has never driven anything but a private car, go and buy a 40' plus diesel motor home with airbrakes and go down the road with no training whatsoever. From questions that I have asked, motorhome dealers don't tell the prospective buyer about the Air Endorsement and they don't get one unless they happen to be stopped for some other reason. Dealers don't say anything that might cost them a sale. Joe: Yes I live in Leduc. | ||
| motorcoach1 Rating: N/A |
I think air endorsements are good just about every new bus owner i've talked to is realy bad about the use and knowlage about the subject and when i don't know something i just say so. Someone life is going to depend on your knowlage of what to do when the time arises. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Whooooo boy, here we go again.... "Yes Canada has the right idea, in the US "if it's a motorhome any body can drive it!" " The thing we have here, called "freedom", is being eroded on a daily basis.... and so willingly, at that. There are so many in this "free nation" pleading for more regulations and laws, simply to stifle those they do not feel are worthy of enjoying the same freedom. This same argument for "legislation" is being used for gun control. The CDL license has not made the roads safer, or provided the industry with safer drivers. Yet people seem to think that a motorhome driver that passes a CDL test will be a safer driver? What was ignored with the legislation of commercial testing and licensing, is the fact that there are many people that simply do not do well on tests, while having the expertise and experience to do the job extremely well. Consequently, good drivers that could be working, are not. Drivers that passed the tests are working, including those that are extremely aggressive drivers and should not be behind the wheel. The motorhome industry has fought against any special licensing for years, and I hope they will continue to. All more legislation provides, is revenue through taxation and regulatory fees. It has been proven time and again, that the majority of accidents has been due to driver inattention, not the lack of knowledge of how the vehicle operates. Test for the ability to drive it, if anything. </rant> | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
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John your very last line is the exact statement I was tring to make! Yes how well I know about great drivers who lost there jobs because they weren't book smart enough to comprhend those long writen CDL (Citizenship Denial License) tests! I was a truck driver before CDL's were thought of all we had to have back then was a "chaufers license" and yes I had friends and family who could out drive anybody I know including myself, but were unable to pass the long writen tests(mandatory) but if they'd been given the opertunity to take a skills test they'd made anybody and everybody who "Grandfathered in" (again including myself), ok just so those who don't know what I mean let me explain if you were "book smart" and passsed the writen exams your employer could sign a piece of paper saying you were capable of handling what ever class vehicle you were getting your license for and you didn't have to take a skills test as long as you took and passed the writen test before whatever the exact date in April of '91 or '92 whichever it was when the CDL became mandatory ( I forget the exact date as I had mine about 13 months before then and yes I grandfathered on the skills test). Now lets say they had turned that around and allowed those who could easily have passed a skills test to have "grandfathered" on the writen tests there would have been a fair play and those driving son of a guns that wasn't real book smart but could sure drive! Would have still been able to work! Well enough ranting but that again is my opinion and if ya don't like it just don't mail the 2 cent chck! LOL! | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
JohnMC9: I hope i never get on an airplane with a pilot that has had no training. I don't fly often but I am on the highway every day and really wonder about those big boxes coming toward me at 75 MPH under the control of someone with no training. On old highways with a twenty foot surface you have to put your outside dual of the pavement so your mirror doesn't touch the oncoming vehicle's mirror. I always hope his licence didn't come in his morning's corn flake box. If you don't feel regulations are required, come and see me the next time you are sick. I will give you a bigger discount than your local medecine man. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Out of context, Stan. Training is a good thing. Regulatory, legislated testing and licensing is not. Simple 'nuff? A piece of paper does not make a better driver, all it proves, is the holder passed a test. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
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Stan Give me a call when convenient at 987***3237 local Thanks Joe. | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
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Yeah but hey John look how many of those 14 day wonders the truck driving schools can put out running 3 classes a day 7 days a week! (scary part is I was told by a legitamte source that it ain't even 14 days long now ypu 7 days training and on DAY 8 the school not the HWY PATROL decides you are legally licensed take these 2 pieces of paper, a hair brush and a smile and go to your local license branch and walla heres your CDL!) the reason I know it's reliable is he just got his CDL after paying $1800 and spending 8 days at the school! Shucks 2 weeks ahgo I coln' evn spal trok drievr now I R 1! Yes and no I ain't laff'n out loud either! This is bunch o" crapolla! | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
Stan, I do know the driver licencing requirements in B.C. and Mantioba where I have held Class 1 Air for many years both require a minimum of a class 3 licence for any vehicle over two axles, as well as a trailer over 10,000kg, but not a bus over 24 passengers (class 2) and not a truck with a semi-trailer comination and can tell you for certain that there have been ticket lost in the court over this. As far as the other provinces the whole system is almost finsihed syncronizing through out Canada so all provinces will be the same soon if not already. I know that things were different at one time, but that is how they are now. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
They give a free CB with the license now! 10-4? | ||
| JW Smythe (Jwsmythe)
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>I hope i never get on an airplane with a pilot > that has had no training Aircraft pilots must be typed in the aircraft that they're going to be flying. They must be certified in the general type (single engine, multi-engine, piston, jet, tricycle gear, tail dragger, etc). Once they have that, which is extensive, they must do 3 takeoffs and landings in the aircraft of the type which they are to fly. That is, a twin engine Bonanza doesn't qualify you to fly a DC3. I believe to be typed, it must be an instructor with them, but it's been a while since I've done anything with aircraft, so I may be mistaken on that. For airlines, they want a LOT of hours (thousands). Most airline pilots are ex-military pilots. I was looking into a few different states, which I may reside, for their licensing on large RV's. They vary. Everyone should check with their state to see their rules. One state needed a Class B non-CDL. Another didn't require anything but a valid drivers license. Good thing to know in some states someone with experience driving a Kia can get behind the wheel of a very large vehicle. On the other hand, anyone can rent a big moving van. I've driven quite a few 26' moving vans in various states of disrepair from a few different national chains. One was already loaded, and the renter asked me to drive, because they weren't confident driving a loaded truck. After I got it rolling, I figured out that if you stepped on the clutch, the engine would invariably stall. Shifting gears was a dream. {sigh} Shift, pop the clutch to restart the engine, and keep going. I was less than impressed. I get recruited a lot by friends and coworkers to drive their trucks, after they realize "oh god, that's big." At least they're smart enough to ask for help. I've ended up driving trucks with bad steering (90 degree movement of the wheel with no response from the truck), bad brakes (stop? we don't stop), and faulty electrical where no lights at all worked. My favorite was a gas powered automatic transmission 26' U-Haul that I was driving from Florida to California, with a car trailer. It was overloaded (shhhh), and the overall length was just about two feet shy of a tractor trailer. That's eyeball judgement while parked beside some at rest areas. It LOOKED new, the miles were low, but that was the extent of it. One of the braking system alarms went nuts at 500 miles. The "repair" guys simply disabled the alarm when they couldn't find the fault. It blew a belt off of the A/C pump at 1500 miles. Crossing the mountains on I-10, it would drop from 55mph to 15mph. That's my fault for the load. Something like that is a lot of fun to back up through a gas station that *LOOKS* like it has room to turn around on the other side. A trucker friend of mine was surprised I did it at all. He says a long truck and short trailer are a rather difficult combination to back up. The last truck I rented (diesel with a 5 speed stick), they kinda forgot to mention that left and up was reverse. That was interesting starting in a busy parking lot with other vehicles close by. "Is it rolling back on an incline? I should be in first, why isn't it going. There's no indication in the cab. Oh look, it's way over there." They also forgot to mention that the parking brakes didn't work at all. It was fun to drive though. Most rental places are going to gas powered automatics, to keep it simple for the car driving crowd. I mentioned the brakes to them when I returned it. They were ready to send it back out on the road, after asking the next driver "Are you parking on an incline?" | ||
| motorcoach1 Rating: N/A |
ok ,,,,gee the string about bordillos on wheels a few strings back the motor coach industry was building winny's as such not buses ...the bus class coach was introdused by blue bird as one of the first so as not to blane the rv class of folks as to to big bus guys that had to over come the stigma of sells to the public not the busnut home builder in my books allways builds a better coach .. just my opionion | ||
| motorcoach1 Rating: N/A |
mmm jw don't planes have automatic tranmissions and gag bags | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
JohnMC9: snip Training is a good thing. Regulatory, legislated testing and licensing is not. Simple 'nuff? snip I assume you are referring to driving only, and not to all trades and professions that currently require testing and licencing. I think this is just human nature that laws should only apply to other people. I agree that the doctor you go to may have graduated 99th out of 100 in his class but at least he passed the minimum requirement. A lot of people driving large motor homes can't pass the minimum. | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
truthhunter: Maybe the ICBC site is out of date but their current site says that a class 5 licence is good for "motorhomes (including those with more than two axles)" http://www.icbc.com/Licensing/lic_getlic_types.asp I dropped to a class 3 (don't need a medical) and your regulations are similar to Alberta for commercial driving. The loophole that has always existed for motorhomes is the 'private passenger' description. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Oh, Stan..... Lets start over: "By Stan Several years ago, every province in Canada adopted compulsory Air Endorsement on driver's license to drive a vehicle with air brakes. For a motorhome, you can still drive with a class 5 (passenger automobile) but you have to attend an approved air brake training course and have the air endorsement. This course is 12 hours of classroom instruction on how the system works and how to use it. Comments on all the bus boards by people who are driving their own buses indicate that this requirement should be universal." And: "I agree that the doctor you go to may have graduated 99th out of 100 in his class but at least he passed the minimum requirement. A lot of people driving large motor homes can't pass the minimum." A lot of doctors are quacks, a lot of electricians are bad, a pit full of lawyers are unscrupulous, and there must be millions of drivers (most in Florida) that shouldn't be behind the wheel of the car they're driving. Testing an individual for his knowledge regarding the -mechanics- of the air brake system, before permitting him to drive a vehicle with air brakes, will not provide one iota of benefit to mankind. Yes, he should know how to set and release the brakes, and understand that he needs sufficient air pressure, just as he should know where the light switches are, and how to shift. That much is a no-brainer. And yes, there are some people that will jump into a vehicle and drive away, never taking the time to as much as see where the various switches are, looking at the gauges, or knowing if the tires aren't flat. It's unfortunate Stan, but we can't legislate against stupidity. And licensing does not, and will not, remove the right to act like an idiot. In Florida, a special license is required to drive a motorcycle. The amount of motorcycle accidents in Florida, far exceed the rate in any other state. What did special testing and licensing help with? If you see the way the commercial drivers are driving down here in Florida... you would understand better why I insist that intensive schooling and testing about things like "what is the difference between a DD3 and a spring canister", before an owner of a new bus conversion can drive it, will not make that person a better driver, or prevent an accident. Knowing how to handle the vehicle (especially under all adverse conditions), is all that's important. Only time and experience can properly teach that; you don't learn how to drive from a book. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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John, I totally agree with you. I can see absolutely no benefit to a driver understanding the internal workings of an air brake system as opposed to standard hydraulic brake system. Nor should the driver need to know how the internal combustion engine work or the automatic transmission or any other internal mechanical system of the vehicle. There really is a difference between an operator and a mechanic. Richard | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Every week the boards have questions like: How do I adjust my brakes? How do I drain my air tanks? How much travel should I have on the slack adjuster? Why is there oil/water emulsion in my wet tank? These are all people asking for training (that is necessary) if you are maintaining your own bus. I encourage these people to continue to ask and thank all the people who provide the answers. I am concerned about the people who never asked and were never taught. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
With today's new computer chip technology, looking under the hood is a lesson in fultility, as well as trying to figure out why the left rear brakes lock when you turn on your right turn signal. Knowing enough to not use the vehicle until it's fixed, is all that's important. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Stan, that's fine for those that want to do those tasks, and/or are able to perform those tasks. Many of us do not wish to get that involved with the mechanical aspects and repair, and rather concentrate on the interior, exterior work. Not that many of us have the facilities to make repairs, or the health to crawl under and around the bus itself. Why then, should it be made mandatory to know how to adjust brakes, or change a DD3 canister? Good to know, perhaps... but made mandatory? Making mountains out of molecules seems to be a hobby around here... Always was, I suppose.... | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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snip "Making mountains out of molecules seems to be a hobby around here... Always was, I suppose...." Man, are you right on. LOL Richard | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
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Oh JTNG you are dead on it! Like you said before test for the ability! Now on the testing of motorcyclist I ride and most states I know of require we ge a special license endorsement! That said just because we have been to schooling or passed a training/skills course doesn't make us any more visible to the millions of non-driving licensed 4 wheelers out there! With motorcycle accidents the # 1, cause is "I didn't see the motorcycle officer", but what do ya do? Do ya give up on a hobby you love because, you could be the next 1 splattered by someone who whether or not they really could see you, is gonna say "I didn't see him coming, he musta been flying!" because hey hows the dead guy laying on the street gonna argue? Whoops I'm at it again! I'm sorry I didn't mean to get off subject! | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
John: I know that you have been working on your bus for a long time and maybe it is just a project that you never intend to put on the road. If you do put it on the road, you are going to find it very expensive to go to a bus garage to have all the litle daily things checked and adjusted. Do you plan on checking your own fluid levels, or is that a job for the shop mechanic? Most people who do their own conversion (unlike the hi-end buyers) do all their own minor maintenance, like adjusting brakes. If you don't feel you are capable, for whatever reason, of doing the minor maintenance then have it done at a commercial shop because it needs to be done. | ||
| R.J.(Bob) Evans (Bobofthenorth)
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John asked: >Many of us do not wish to get that involved with >the mechanical aspects and repair, and rather >concentrate on the interior, exterior work. Not >that many of us have the facilities to make >repairs, or the health to crawl under and around >the bus itself. >Why then, should it be made mandatory to know >how to adjust brakes, or change a DD3 canister? >Good to know, perhaps... but made mandatory? I'm no fan of excessive gummit regulation. In the case of air brake vehicles weighing in excess of 30,000# the reason you need to have a basic understanding of the systems is common sense. If you don't have that basic understanding then you lack the tools to make decisions involving your own safety, your passengers' safety and the safety of other users of the roadway. **it happens along the road - sometimes you need to make a decision about whether you should: - patch it up and keep going until you get home - call in the experts before you move another foot - ignore it until you get home When those decisions involve your air brakes I want the assurance that you have some basis for making the decision. | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
IMHO, If for no other reason than to have a defense against unscrupulous repair shops. When they start explaining the expense due to complexity - because they have to twist that domathicky and adjust that Wombat, I want to be able to ask them a bunch of questions that ends up painting them in a corner. How they respond helps decide whether I give them another chance or move on down the road. I wouldn't want to repeat DML's experience with that infamous AZ transmission shop! [Thanks, Richard for passing on the lesson!] Just think why educated Busnuts were never a victim of Sam Walker. Onward and Upward | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Come'on fella's.... My argument is only against legislating "air brake" training and special CDL licensing, for driving your own converted bus. As a former (long time ago; harps please) bus and truck driver, we were trained to drive in a safe manner. No test or training was given to see if we knew how to adjust the brakes. The owner wouldn't want his drivers tackling work duties like that.The mechanics took care of the mechanical things; the drivers drove. If something went wrong, you made a call. (and yeah, I adjusted the brakes on the V-12 Brock and the 60 yard Steco dump body... And the Oshkosh.. and..) Let's stick to the topic... By Stan (68.150.102.165) on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 9:03 am: Edit Post Several years ago, every province in Canada adopted compulsory Air Endorsement on driver's license to drive a vehicle with air brakes. For a motorhome, you can still drive with a class 5 (passenger automobile) but you have to attend an approved air brake training course and have the air endorsement. This course is 12 hours of classroom instruction on how the system works and how to use it. Comments on all the bus boards by people who are driving their own buses indicate that this requirement should be universal. Why not a hydraulic brake endorsement, for those 40' gas jobs? This horse has been beaten to death. I give up. Ok? We need more codes, regulations, laws, and regulatory fees in the USA. If we don't mend our ways, we are going straight to hell. Long live the Queen. (BAH) | ||
| Skip Sahler (Skip102dl)
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At the risk of prolonging this subject of special endorsements, I wounder how many RV or bus conversion owner/drivers could pass the same lic. test that they took to operate a car if they were driving their house on wheeles? It seems to me that is the very least the rest of us fellow drivers have a right to expect. I learned to never follow an "RV" any longer than I have to; they seeme to far less skilled than any other type of driver. My guess is that a far too high a percentage of RV drivers couldn't pass the driving skills part of any state test whle diving their own "rigs". | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Well, since the majority of other drivers apparently believe that: "a far too high a percentage of RV drivers couldn't pass the driving skills part of any state test whle diving their own "rigs"." Since the majority of big-rig RV owners are retired, and since other motorists apparently deem them to be: "far less skilled than any other type of driver".... Perhaps it is time to push for the banning of motorhome ownership, and especially the -driving- of anything that large, for anyone over the age of 60. Makes sense! Would you like my observation? There are so few accidents involving motorhomes, the insurance premiums for a motorhome are far less than an automobile of comparable value. I wonder if they know something... naww... what do insurance companies know, anyway.... The accident rate in Brevard County, Florida, is off the scales. Old people coming down here by the thousands per month! Hey... With gigantic motorhomes! Grey heads behind every wheel of a big rig! Diesel pushers! No training! Yet no increase of the accident rate involving motorhomes. The automobile accident rate for those under 40 outweigh the accident rate for those over 40. The number of accidents involving motorhomes are so far less than accidents involving automobiles, it does not enter the equation. I don't care to get caught behind a motorhome, due to the much slower speed they travel at. In the hill country up north, no-one wants to be behind one. In traffic, the RV drivers take too long to make a move, and are not aggressive enough. Isn't that the real complaint? Pushing for legislation to limit the freedom we now enjoy, will bite you on your butt faster than you can say "politician". Lighten up. Things have worked perfectly fine in the USA, right along. | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
I believe speed differential is a greater factor in/to accident causation - at any age. RVs may enjoy a lower accident rate as their size (and possibly, driver mentality) reduces forced decisions in high speed-differential situations. (you can have high differentials at relatively slow speeds) All vehicles require brakes and RVs are in much greater need (due to their size) That being said, we don't need more legislation, we need more personal responsibility - at every level of our lives. Necessity is the great mother of Bureaucracy. We can avoid the bureaucracy by exercising personal responsibility | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
Yes MC 9 John the insurance rates and corresponding accident rate for RVs is very low per year . We can be sure that the insurance company crosses every t to get there profit. It would be wrong to draw any conclusion about RV driver safety other than the average RV is driven far less per year than the average passenger of commercial vehicle. The last statistic I had a peak at was the accident "per mile/hour on the roads" rate for RVs was in fact 5 times that of passengers vehicles and 44 times that of commercial vehicles, which is believable if one does a guesstimate on many of those large RV drivers we often share the road with | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
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Um, do I add to this? Historically, it was found that there was all manner of misadventure out on the road. In the proper investigations following these, it was found that in many instances, the misadventure could have been averted or lessened if the driver had better understood what the vehicle/road/conditions/situation/dynamic was. In effect, if they knew better, they wouldn't have done or continued to do, what they did. As time passed, there appeared trends in this knowledge gap induced misadventure, which was harming people, both the ignorant and the innocent. The people's representatives saw this and felt inspired to do something to help the people. Perhaps even, the people did raise up their voices and petitioned that something be done to curb this senceless slaughter of the innocent by the ignorant. Or at least some railway sponsored anti-truck industry association might have been involved, but I digress.... So, the people's representatives instituted forms of measurment, popularly called tests, and issued evidence which indicated a successful completion of said measurements, called them licences and endorsements, passed laws requiring drivers to have evidence of knowledge or displayed skill and all was good. Now, whether the execution of these principles has been without problem, whether freedoms have been stolen away, a debate may rage on to the end of time.... Here in Ontario, and I expect in just about all the jurisdictions in North America, there is a requirement to have the appropriate licence and/or endorsement according to the local state or provincial laws. There is NOT a requirement for training, you may challenge the tests by just showing up, warm body and pulse, unless you are getting your licence/endorsement from some place other than the government, such as through a recognized employer or educational institution which the government has given authority to qualify the drivers in their care. Popularly, in order to qualify for the authority, the government requires an approved course of study be followed for the driver candidate, and the instructors will need some form of designation and training. Insurance carriers, through preferential rates, have "encouraged" training for our younger drivers in most jurisdictions, and the government may recognize training by allowing a faster passage through a graduated novice licencing system. In Ontario, the class of licence required is based on the vehicle's actual, or registered weight, whichever is higher. The purpose to which the vehicle is being used is not an issue. And airbrake endorsement is required if there is air pressure used somewhere between the brake pedal and the tires in order to stop at the end of the street. Most of what constitutes an air brake endorsement is really "Brakes 101" that would serve every driver on the road well. Perhaps it is sad some basic physics to do with vehicle brakes isn't required knowledge for us all? We all enjoy driver licence reciprocity in North America: If you are legal at home, you are legal elsewhere in Canada and the United States, country to country, state to state, province to province. So, please, all of you Americans, you may freely come to any Canadian province or territory without fear of legal issues to do with driver licence or endorsment. Your cash is still worth more than ours, a little less than before, thanks to the drunken spending of your federal government, but what the heck, borrow a few bucks and get up here, WE LOVE YOUR TOURIST DOLLARS!! Any trouble at the border will most likely be with your own federalies on your way home... But that is another thread! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| dougtheboneifiedbusnut
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Hey busswarrior, You made the wrong decision,You usually don't bloviate like that, and to use this forum to belittle the government of the greatest country on the face of the planet doesn't do you any justice whatsoever. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Hey, dougtheboneifiedbusnut - - Haaaaaar de har har de har. Youse is the best, man! (but youse forgots the : <\sarcasm> code) | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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snip "greatest country on the face of the planet" Hey Doug, are you Canadian? Richard | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
I second Busswarrior elegaent and considerate motion to close the thread, not only in Canada ahy` | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
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Hello dougtheboneifiedbusnut. I am sorry that my post has somehow lost its original intent for you. Please re-read it. There was no belittling intended. I think we will all agree that the various levels of government in both countries have done us all a great service by instituting driver licencing. I was trying to show the history of that intervention in our lives according to the purer principles of how our government is supposed to work for the common good, and regularly suceeds, though unfortunately our negatively motivated media don't tell it like that very often. I'd still like it if you come to Canada and spend some money! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A |
Ohhh, The "drunken spending of your federal government" comment is perhaps the offence... Sorry, an editorial comment about the massive borrowing being done by the US federal government, which is a great concern to many Americans and Canadians to which these economics effect their livelyhood. One of the effects of the borrowing has been to lower the value of the US dollar in relation to other currencies, the Canadian dollar included. So, if you come to Canada, your US dollar isn't able to buy as much, and if I come down there, mine buys a little more. Good for the Canadian tourist, bad for Canadian business that wants to trade with the US. Being a more selfless type, I worry about my countrymen's jobs more than how much the diesel costs to go to Jack's party every year. Hence, my off handed comment about the US national debt's rapid climbing. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| mleibelt
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As A pilot...I want to know how the systems work...On the plane and on the bus...I would feel better if everyone had to take some training on air brakes and how to use and MAINTAIN them....I went out and got a Class B CDL with air brakes...Not that hard to do... Mark Leibelt MCI 8 Motorhome EMB110, SD3, DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, B747 Type ratings... | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Too late, BW. You're sleeping on the couch tonight. | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
"I've ended up driving trucks with bad steering (90 degree movement of the wheel with no response from the truck), bad brakes (stop? we don't stop), and faulty electrical where no lights at all worked." Hey, that sounds like a 24' UHaul I almost rented a while back. Decrepit old GMC C-50, gas 366/auto, 6" of steering slop, no running lights (headlights, taillights, and that's it), and a severe right pull when braking. I got 50' out of the parking lot, turned around, and demanded a roadworthy truck, especially since I was driving it from eastern Massachusetts to White Plains, NY (and back). I lucked out & got an old International Super Mover...it was banged-up (I'll never forget the packing tape holding a crack in the RF wheelhouse together), but hadn't seen much use. Why? It had a diesel, a standard shift...and didn't have power steering.  Other than the 60MPH governor  , I liked it a lot. It even had brand new Goodyear radials all around. "The last truck I rented (diesel with a 5 speed stick), they kinda forgot to mention that left and up was reverse." That's not at all uncommon on large trucks...the 1984 Ford L8000 (Spicer) I trained for my CDL on, an old (1980?) Ford C6000 I drove a few times (Spicer), my bus (1984 Ford B-700, Spicer), the 1972 F-800 (Clark) and 1979 International S1700 (Spicer) wreckers I drive at work, and the last big UHaul I rented (see above) all had that. Eaton-Fuller Road Rangers also use the same setup. Don't blame UHaul for that--many Internationals don't have the shift gate stamped on the shifter knob. "That was interesting starting in a busy parking lot with other vehicles close by. "Is it rolling back on an incline? I should be in first, why isn't it going. There's no indication in the cab. Oh look, it's way over there." I generally don't use first (creeper) gear in a big truck unless I'm maneuvering into a loading dock, or hooking up a trailer. I started the big IH in second gear. "They also forgot to mention that the parking brakes didn't work at all." Whoa, that isn't good! "It was fun to drive though. Most rental places are going to gas powered automatics, to keep it simple for the car driving crowd." True. I don't even want to THINK about feeding a gas-engine MDT on a Cape Cod--->New York run. "I mentioned the brakes to them when I returned it. They were ready to send it back out on the road, after asking the next driver "Are you parking on an incline?" Sounds depressingly normal for UHaul. When we drove past the place a couple hours after picking up the International, the deathtrap GMC they'd tried to give us was gone...seems someone had rented it. I stay as far away from rental trucks (and rented RVs) as possible...they tend to be underpowered, poorly-maintained (see above), driven by people who may not have driven anything bigger than a Cavalier until that day. Heck, I once made $10 backing a UHaul into a parking space. It was a little Toyota mini-mover, no longer bumper to bumper than my Chevy Caprice. Some people are smart (the reason I drove to White Plains is my friend who needed to move a bunch of equipment wasn't comfortable in something that big), but the vast majority are, well, not. A road test should be like a CDL test: paralell park to both sides, back into a parking space, pull up to a line without going over it, make 90 degree left & right turns without hitting anything, and demonstrate at least a basic understanding of how things work. COuld I pass it? Been there, done that (class B CDL, passenger, tank, & air-brake endorsements). | ||
| sylverstone (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
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you can drive a tank? whoohoo! now we're talkin heavy metal -dd | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
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Jaraxle You say "I generally don't use first (creeper) gear in a big truck unless I'm maneuvering into a loading dock, or hooking up a trailer." Well I'd hope not! Most of us use reverse when hooking up to a trailer and when getting into a loading dock! Unless you have a new pusher trailer model I hadn't seen and unload out the front! | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
You mean you've never come in a foot to the side of where you thought you were (I blame the fact it was 4am) trying to get the trailer hooked up? Or gone for a dock bay and realized, "wait a second, I'm going to hit that post if I don't pull up & re-align myself." Also, I'm used to trucks with 2-speed axles (I love 2-speed axles)...I tend to refer to the axle-low as being a creeper (as I recall, the L8000 I trained on had a low axle range of 8.87:1), which I know I shouldn't do. Also, I was at a loading dock today that actually loaded the truck from the side (and yes, that is precisely as weird as it sounds)...whoever designed this thing was on some really bad drugs. I want another C6000, or an International...I hate the dog-slow F-650 they have me driving. The only good thing about it is the CD player. | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
Also, one thing I forgot: whenever my uncle hooked up a trailer, the first thing he did after the 5th wheel locked was to put the tractor in its lowest gear & pull forward, to make sure it was secure. Anytime I pull a trailer with electric brakes, I put my truck in low gear & pull against them to make sure they're working. | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
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Jaraxle, Just givin' yose a hard time! As we used to joke about frieght haulers when I was driving. Do ya know why Roadway painted their hood's blue? So the drivers would know which end hooked to the trailer! Also after all the jokes JB Hunt drivers have been the center of for yrs & yrs, they say with the new payscale that their now the ones laff'n all the way to the bank! What they forget to mention is it still takes them 3 days to get there! And for now last but not least Anyone know what 3 things a Schnider Trk and those construction barrels have in common? Aw come at least try! #1, They're both orange #2, They both block the Hwy! and are ya ready for this? HuH? #3, THEY BOTH HAVE A DIRTBAG OR TWO INSIDE 'EM! LOL JUST KIDD'N (not really) | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Knuckle.... you are mean and rude! And that's why we like ya'! | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
Hood? What is this "hood" of which you speak?! The only Roadway tractors worth mentioning are the Ford C7000 cab-overs. Hunt is still the joke of the industry. The pay is still low, the trucks are still crap (and still governed to 60), the schedule is still staggering, and you're still doing well to get home every 4 weeks. Schneider is much better...too bad they phased out all their cab-overs. The sad fact is: I had a Hunt truck pass me on the highway today. I had the F-650 running flat out, and was barely holding 55MPH up a hill. I'd had the pedal pegged for the better part of 2 miles, and hadn't topped 60. The box was totally empty except for a hand-jack, half a dozen pallets, and 2 load-securing jack bars. How can a 7.2 litre engine (Cat C7 ACERT) be such a dog? | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
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Ain't no dog! Just ain't grown up yet what yose gots is a kitten! Dem BIG ol CAT's is all ready grown up, left the litter box, an become Mountain Lions!!!! | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
It's worse than a dog...more like a 3-legged puppy. It's as abd as the 361FT gas-engine F-800 flatbed at my other job. The F-650 is a bit faster at the top end (800 governed at 67), but until then, they're even. Heck, below ~20MPH, the 800 might actually be ahead. I want a Ford C6000 with either a Cat 3208 or a 6V53T. |