| Author | Message | ||
| Casper Rating: N/A |
Good morning, After reading this board for a few years, I've learned a few things. The biggest is of course to "get the bus inspected by a reputable bus garage". I've had the new baby I'm considering inspected by one of the best, and here's the laundry list: (Note- this coach is 1000 miles away from my house. I've only seen pictures, read descriptions and talked with the bus garage boss). 4104 with older home conversion and freshly rebuilt 6-71. Coach had been sitting appx. 2 years. Needs coach batteries (house batt condition unknown, probably shot too) No power steering, possible pump malfunction Left drive wheel oil seal leaking various windows damaged "slow to air in rear" tie rods worn draglink end worn pitman arm worn (researching "how worn?" on these front end parts. unsafe worn? or just not up to Prevost/BMW standards?) Various electrical gremlins (wipers, brake lights, starter switch, reversing solenoid). Several windows cracked -(windshields are good). Now the good news: Exceptional engine - no leaks, no smoke Airbags good Brake linings very good Tires very good Conversion systems not inspected - Good luck. Now I'm a pretty handy guy with some experience working on Class-6 and Class-8 trucks. My current thinking is to have the garage that did the inspection install a new set of batteries, take care of the hub seal and chase down enough of the electrical gremlins to get the coach legal to drive (I'll be needing brake lights & turn signals at least). I'll start on the rest of the repairs/upgrades when I get her home. I'm pretty handy with a meter, and the book that I've got on order should have a schematic. I'm asking the inspector for more information on the "worn" front end parts. If the wear is excessive we'll get a price for repair. Now, my questions: Non-operating power steering. Now I'm a husky guy, used to drive an R-model Mack with no power. Will this beast steer hard enough to make it difficult to get her home? I will repair or remove the PS system once I get her here of course. "slow to air in rear", I'm guessing there's a flow restriction in a line somewhere. Any clues? What is "Da Book", and where do I get one? I have the 4104 Maintenance Manual on order from that website that sells all the books, is this "Da Book"? Is there a best source for windows? A couple of the old slanted side windows are cracked. I would like to replace these, but if they're hard to find or excessively expensive I'll cover a couple and replace a couple with RV windows. This coach was parked a few years ago with all conversion systems working. I'm sure most of this stuff is not going to just light up after all this time. What are the chances of some systems just needing a cleanup/restart? I originally wanted to steel tent camp in a Skoolie, but the wife talked me into something with a better ride. The price wouldn't be out of line for a shell, so anything that works is gravy in my book. I know this is a pretty long list of problems, but most of the key parts are solid and the price is right. Looking forward to your comments & recomendations, thanks. Casper (Soon to be Casper4104 I think,,,) | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A |
I wouldn't recommend driving the bus home until all suspect items are repaired. A thousand mile trip in a bus that hasn't been brought back up to road-worthiness is just asking to kill yourself or someone else. Either have the coach Landoll'd to you or go there and spend a few weeks underneath it. Contact Luke at US Coach for all of your parts needs. He and his folks are top-notch and will find whatever parts you need. You should determine how much $ you'll have to spend in labor and time before "pulling the trigger" on this particular coach. There may be some better/cheaper runners out there for less $ by the time you factor in these things. My current bus had sat for over ten years, and I spent a few months getting her road-worthy before bringing her home... but she was only 20 miles away. Good luck, Brian Brown PD4106-1175 Longmont, CO www.brownland.org/bus/ | ||
| sylverstone (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Rating: N/A |
"Non-operating power steering." my scenicruiser had 90 degrees of slop in the steering when i bought it. drove it 12 miles to where i was going to be prepping it for my run to lukes (4k miles each way from here) ran it up on the railroad ties and crawled under it to have a look. someone in the rig turning the wheel led me right to what looked like a bad ball joint, so i pulled it apart and then found myself looking at a pin with a pair of metal blocks on eithier side of it that looked like they were supposed to move... went hunting, and figured out these were hydraulic valves. (i turn the wheel, it pushes the valve, letting hydraulic pressure into the ram to move the steering for me) found the hydraulic fluid tank, filled it with atf on the advice of the local truck shop, and fired it up.. blowing half a gallon of atf all over the engine compartment. hole in a pressure line. pulled all the pressure lines, ran to motor truck in mt vernon and had new ones made, (cheap compared to the ones on my race car) put 'em in, filled it with hydraulic fluid, fired it up, and all the slop went away, and it was heavenly  ... of course, coming down mt rushmore in 1st gear 2 weeks later the line from the hydraulic tank to the pump (not pressure) broke and it was a fun slow trip down, and a whole lot of fun finding a place to buy one. by time i got home both my drive axle seals were leaking. i think this had to do with the lube shop putting synthetic in it. i had some electrical issues, but most of them went away within 10 miles or so... mostly sticking relays. mine's a '56, so i suspect that any problems with yours are going to be less age related, but you never know -dd | ||
| Casper Rating: N/A |
This one's a '58 Sylverstone, I don't think the "newer" is going to help me very much. Thanks for the responses so far. Does anyone know what the original list price was for a 1958 PD4104? I'm working mith my insurance guy, and for some reason he needs to know this. Thanks, Casper | ||
| jlvickers Rating: N/A |
Greyhound has a add at one time that stated $33,000.00 for their 4104's when new from GMC. jlv | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Hmmmm... "Coach had been sitting appx. 2 years" Figure on tires. Tires are made to release chemicals when the wheel rolls, to keep the rubber pliable, . Sitting, no chemicals are released and rotting happens. Figure on seals leaking, all the seals... due to sitting. "this coach is 1000 miles away...... I've only seen pictures, read descriptions and talked ...." Would you marry a woman you've never met in person? This venture can be even more costly. At least with a gal, you can do a pre-nup. "older home conversion" To do anything; fix anything, or change any design, you will first spend time undoing what's been done. (ugh) And spend time trying to figure out how it was done... and why it was done. "Various electrical gremlins " Shooting electronics troubles can take up more of your time, than building it from scratch. What'd the last guy do wrong? That'd be your first question... Then, after the hoses are rolled up and engines leave, you can make it a point to wire it differently than the last guy. I didn't know the '04s had power steering! I thought they started with p/s with the '06? The '04 I drove, steered fine w/out p/s, or at least as good as the old Eagles. Man, there are bus conversions all over the place...... Do a Google for "bus conversions", or "buses" and see for yourself. MCI, ABC Bus, Horizon coach, Holiday Coach.. Right here on this board.. Egads. They're all over the place. You've got to go see it for yourself, and promise yourself that you will not buy anything on the first visit. There are more buses than people to buy them. Try to keep in mind, that the 6-71 is probably the least costly of the problems you may face. I would prefer to have everything else 100%, and an engine with a knock. Lotsa' luck with whatever you decide. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
"Does anyone know what the original list price was for a 1958 PD4104? I'm working mith my insurance guy, and for some reason he needs to know this. " HAR!! Man, youse need a new insurance guy. How far away did he see you coming? You shoulda' wore a costume.. Try Progressive Insurance. Liability is el'cheapo. If the bus is as you described it, I wouldn't worry about collision ins... Unless.... the premium is squat and he gives you $500k coverage. Let me know, I'll bring my Bic. 50/50, ok? | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
I have to agree with John. This is absolutely the first time I have ever heard of an insurance man asking about the new price. Not saying it hasn't happened, but never to my knowledge. Run, run as fast as you can to another agent. Richard | ||
| Casper Rating: N/A |
I’ve been with my State-Farm insurance guy for over 20 years, and he’s always taken good care of me. So I'll give him a chance to quote the policy anyway. His staff seemed a little confused "It's a what?" "Never heard of one" "Did they make motorhomes that long ago?". I get good rates and excellent service when I’ve had a claim. I’ve talked to Progressive, Allstate, and a couple of others, and none have been able to match the rates I’m getting with Charlie. We’ll work it out, and if we can’t I’ll go ahead and get Progressive on the coach only - unless they can beat my guy on the other stuff this time around. If they can, then they can cover my other 4 vehicles and my homeowner’s as well. About the older home conversion – the TV and microwave have that “Carter administration” look about them. I’ll check it out thoroughly to look for damage/decay before I power it up. If the system was designed and built as a firetrap, it probably would have went up at some time in the last 30 years I’d think, so any potential problem is more likely the result of damage/decay than a design/workmanship flaw, wouldn’t you say? By the way, the “Electrical Gremlins” are all in the bus itself. My inspection did not include the conversion. Conversion electric might be perfect, might be shorted to a spark plug thoughtfully screwed in to the propane tank (BOOM!) – and that’s how I plan to approach the system. My main concern is that the coach is mechanically robust. The guys at the (highly regarded) shop know a lot more about buses than I do, and if they say that it’s solid, I’ll go with that. I view the thing as a “Shell plus”, with a lot of the work done, and a lot for me to upgrade or repair or replace or delete. My use for the thing will be as a crash-pad when I teach Motorcycle safety courses out of town, weekend jaunts with the wife & 2 teens, and summer vacations. We will not be fulltiming, I will not be installing a washer & dryer, there will be no Corian on my countertops… I’m flying down to look the thing over before we ink the deal, and if it gives me the creeps I’m prepared to walk away. Thanks for all the good advice so far, C | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
Personally, I would not hesitate to buy it and drive it home and then start the fun part. Two years is not really a very long time for a conversion to sit. Mine did it a few times and I never found that it hurt anything. Richard | ||
| Robert Swiatkiewicz (Bobswatz)
Rating: N/A |
HI Casper, Don't get your hopes up to high with this coach. Look into it carfully. It can be very costly and time consuming. I purchased my 4104 4 months ago. It was an older conversion and had not been on the road for almost 10 years (same as Brian's.) It still ran but took about 3 months on weekends to check it out fully where I could get her home. That trip was 17 miles. Like I said it was an older conversion and after getting into it......it is now fully gutted. Alot of check points were covered by others, but be sure to take a look at the floors. The are made of 5/8" ply-wood. I found many rotten spots. Under the side windows, under rear hatch door, wheel wells,ect. It all could have been patched, but I am in the process or replacing it all. It is a big, costly and dirty Job! Most of all time consuming. But worth it when it gets done. E mail me if you have any other questions. P.S.-Mine has power steering Bob Swatz 1958 PD-4104-3263 | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Rating: N/A |
Casper - original cost is a standard question for State Farm. I have had it asked on anything "unusual" I have insured with them over the years. I called MCI for the average selling price on my year of bus and they called me back with a number. I called my agent, gave them the number and they issued the policy. No problems and great service as usual with State Farm. Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| Doug Wotring
Rating: N/A |
Who is this reputable shop......What you think is reputable may not be in the bus world. Don't be shy...nobody is going to run off and buy the bus out from under you. | ||
| Casper Rating: N/A |
Hi Doug, I wasn't worried about someone buying the bus out from under me, I was being careful to avoid going commercial on Ian's site. I see that Luke @ US coach comes up a lot on this board (and I love to read his posts BTW), so I guess it's Ok. Ian, if this is over the line I'm sorry, delete as you will, and thanks for the great board. I had the bus checked out by Horizon Coach in Arcadia FL. If Horizon says it's a goody I'm inclined to believe them. Reading this board, I see that a lot of people here have good things to say about Mike and the rest of the Horizon crew, so that's why I referred to them as reputable. | ||
| Doug Wotring
Rating: N/A |
is it one of the ones on their website? | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
The coach could have 4 different types of steering...Manual, Air-O-Matic, Power assist with hydraulic cylinder attached at drag link area, or Sheppard full power, which would be the best to have of the choices, none of which were standard except maybe the last couple years of production and then maybe the assist type.Did they inspect the condition of the air bags as for cracks? If you really want to try to get it home to do the major repairs, stick to the slower highways, at least at first....pounding the miles at interstate speed can show up a lot of oil leaks that you don't want to deal with on that first trip.If fuel is old, should drain and change to fresh with new filters of course, and take extra filters and at least 5 gallons of extra oil along.Should have someone follow you home, helping watch for problems and come in handy incase of breakdown.Before you leave try a 30 or 50 mile loop to see if anything shows up right away.Sometimes people think it has only sat two years when it is really five to ten. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
Oh, yeah, a good spare and the tools to change it would be nice also | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
uhh... maybe I misunderstood..? Is Horizon the one that's selling it, consignment, or otherwise? Just knowing what's "loose", or mentioning that "the power steering doesn't work", isn't a valid inspection that I'd pay for. With a paid-for inspection, you should receive an itemized sheet listing all the items found to be in need of repair. Whoever does the inspection should also be able to tell you how much each repair should cost. The individual should also be able to give their opinion if the unit is worth the money being asked. That's the whole purpose of the inspection. That's also difficult for a mechanic to do, if the seller is the one paying his family's health insurance. There's no possible "conflict of interest" here, is there? Or maybe you just didn't ask enough questions? Say... We're all curious... what's the asking price for this lil' gem in the rough? | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Rating: N/A |
Casper, a 4104 is a great unit for its age. We have a 48 GM. Horizon has a good rep. Get yourself a 40' test wire with alligator clips on each end and a test meter with a beeping continuity setting to help chase down the electrics. Most everything on these can be and were made to be repaired when needed.Our's has no power steering and is not a problem, once your rolling.I'm not sure how a unit with a power steering will steer with it messed up.That would be my biggest concern.Find out if it has oil bath front wheel bearings or packed grease. The bearings can get pricey,but once done they should last with proper maintenace. I too spent many years with a R-model youll do fine. Good luck | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Rating: N/A |
And they are a GREAT looking coach! No squared off box. CURVES!!!! | ||
| Sojourner (Jjimage)
Rating: N/A |
Casper...e-mail me! (remove the X's) I'm 12 miles from Horizon Coach. Sojourn for Christ, Jerry | ||
| Casper
Rating: N/A |
Good morning Jerry, Your Email bounced, please shoot me a note at cndmoore@charter.net Thanks, Casper | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Casper, we have State Farm and they asked me the same question. As I undertood it, their collision, comprehensive and uninsured motorists coverages are ACV and use the beginning number as a point from which to depreciate the value. Ours was determined this way: the seller paid $15,000 for the coach and claimed to have spent another $50,000 on the conversion. That came to $65,000 total. I gave the agent all the information that I had, and they accepted it at face value. We have never had a bit of trouble with State Farm and take the agent at his word. One reason is that the agent works for the company, so what he says and does binds the company, so long as the policy does not contradict him. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Casper Rating: N/A |
Got my quote back from State Farm insurance,,, Basic Liability coverage: $66.64 a year ($5.55 a month) Full coverage with $500 deductible: $331.82 a year ($27.65 a month) Should I call Progressive? :-) Thanks for all the help, Casper | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Go ahead! I'm calling State Farm. | ||
| Casper Rating: N/A |
Wear a costume, I went as a pirate. Also, they'll probably ask for the original sale price of the bus,,, (Little jab there, all in fun). I've been with this guy since I was 16, and the last time I had an at-fault claim, Reagan was in the white house. I've got multi-car, good driver, loyal customer discounts. I don't know how competitive they are with new customers, but give them a call. When you have a claim, even if it's the other guys' fault, they sweep in like a swarm of locusts and take care of EVERYTHING, which is kind'a cool. I had planned to just go liability, but after I saw this ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4616768783&rd=1&sspagename=S TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 ) I decided to go ahead and get something that will cover glass breakage at least. To answer your question, the original asking price was $7,900. I'm flying down next week to look her over, and possibly/probably bring her home. Wish me luck, and thanks everyone for the help. Casper | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Both the '04 and '06s are easy buses to drive. Kinda' like an oversized station wagon. They're durable as all hell, and a lot less expensive to use and repair, than an MCI, Prevo or Eagle.. The 35' can be a blessing also, especially in some of the off-highway campgrounds. You'll do great! Make sure it's road worthy, and if it's from a dealer, ask how fast they can come get you, if it breaks down on the way home. Don't ask "if they will", ask -how fast- they will. It's good to let 'em know you're counting on them to be honest. (I'd pay with a credit card, just for the added benefit of getting my moolah back, just in case) Happy motoring! |