| Author | Message | ||
| Robert J. Wies (Ncbob)
Rating: |
Sorry about the typo in the title..... I'm approaching the point where I'll be heading north to pick up the "Road Princess" and one of the items I need to contend with is a brake system for the 'toad'. Makes sense to me to use a pneumatic cylinder anchored to the floor in the 'toad' with a direct coupling to the air brake system of the bus. A flow control, on the flight deck, should allow me to adjust the severity of the brake application. Do I have my brain in gear or am I shoveling ---t against the tide? Has anyone done a 'build yer own' brake system like this? The systems I see on the 'web are a bit beyond my pocket. Thanks, NCbob | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Rating: N/A |
NCbob $30 Homemade Toad brake Here's an inovative approach from a very smart Classic GMC Motorhome Owner named Ken http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/gallery/showalbum.php?aid=291&&uuid=kenhenders The automatic vacuum pump that is also required is getting much harder to find and expensive - but - a number of mid 80's Caddies have a manual style that will work (about $20 at a u-pull-it yard) - and will work even better with the addition of a vacuum switch ($25 mail order) Without the vac pump - using power brakes without a vacuum source is futile - you would have to almost push the brake pedal thru the floor board to stop the car - try turning off your ignition and use your barkes a couple of times - do not try this unless you got lots and lots of room to restart the car and not crash into anything - cause you aint going to stop very well Pete RTS/Daytona | ||
| Robert J. Wies (Ncbob)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks Pete, I can't know if Ken is a graduate Engineer but he sure had his act together when he came up with this idea! We're getting close to what I'm looking for but I don't think this is quite 'Valhalla'. If all else fails I'll call one of the engineers with the company I used to work for , who was great at pneumatics, and we'll 'noggin' something out. Again, thanks for your contribution. NCbob | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
Just about any diesel will have a vacuum pump...I think 80's Benzes & VW's use electric pumps. So do some trucks (AFAIK, pre-99 Fords do not). | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Rating: N/A |
They make master cylinders with an air chamber attached to them. You should be able to plumb it into the brake lines on the vehicle being towed and tie the air brake supply from the coach into the air chamber to make it work.May need a dual unit or two units as cars have dual systems or just tie into the front disc brakes, depending on the weight of the toad. May require a check valve in the hydraulic line to keep fluid from going back to master cylinder in car and a pressure regulator in the air line. Will need a little bit of tinkering, but should work ok. If you have antilock brakes on the toad, tap in between the brake controller and wheel cylinders/ calipers.Will probably also need a check valve in the hydraulic line going to the air over hydraulic master cylinder too,so normal toadvehicle brake application doesn't back feed into the air/hydraulic master cylinder. I beleive bendix shows these units in their component catalog plus others. | ||
| don (Bottomacher)
Rating: N/A |
Fred Hobe has a simple and effective air cylinder setup on his toad. Check his website (archives?)Fred, got your ears on? | ||
| Rick 74 MC-8 Rating: N/A |
NCbob I used a Bimco air cylinder a psi regulator and a 3 way solenoid tied into the brake lights on the coach set the regulator to the correct psi. (aprox 35 lbs for my setup) makes a big difference if you need help with this have the seller call his brother Rick 74 mc8 | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
Before you go to all the trouble of toad brakes, have you tried towing the toad without supplemental brakes? I have towed my pickup for thousands of miles and hardly notice it is back there. It does not affect my ability to stop safely so I don't worry about toad brakes. Toad brakes are for manufactured motorhomes with barely adequate braking systems. Buses have much better brakes. --Geoff '82 RTS AZ | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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I believe several states and possibly Canada now require brakes on toads. Richard | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
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I looked at VSP website and Va requires a braking system for towed vehicles. I have been towing a jeep for a couple years without one. Do those factory systems stop the vehicle in case of the towbar coming loose?? | ||
| t gojenola
Rating: N/A |
Not all of them do, but when it comes to the ones designed to operate as an adjunct to your coach's air brake system, here's what I deem the very best. This one uses a simple air cylinder attaching to the brake pedal, and an accessory emergency stop system. Nice web site with drawings good enough to show you how to make your own: http://www.supersteersuperstop.com/ss-fitzall.htm This one is different, in that it uses an air chamber permanently attached to the vacuum booster on your toad's master cylinder: http://www.m-gengineering.com/BrakeSystem.html tg | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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I have the M-G system installed on my 99 Tahoe for when I had my Eagle. The dis-advantage with this system is that there is really no means that I could discover to determine exactly how much, if any, braking was applied to the Tahoe. If anyone is interested in buying it, I guess I could remove it. Richard | ||
| david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A |
I have the Fitzall as posted above. It works very well, is easy to install. As Richard stated above, many states require toad brakes and breakaway emergency stopping. I went without for the 1st couple of years, but felt I was gambling with danger. David Anderson | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
The issue of whether toad brakes are required has come up several times on this board, and people have made the mistake of looking at towing law charts and thinking their towed car/pickup falls under the same law as trailers. Toads/towed cars are not under the same laws. I have lost my bookmarks so if anyone has a link that specifically addresses toads and not trailers I would like to renew the facts. --Geoff | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Geoff is pretty sharp over a wide range of subjects and I bet he's correct that his bus can stop "safely." Anybody contemplating this approach has to ensure the bus will stop within the legal distance with the toad attached. (see your vehicle code for distances!). Keep in mind, a bus with a 3000# un-braked toad trying to stop, is a normal bus with a 3000# push behind it. If the converted bus in within 3000# of the GVWR (and most are) by original design criteria, you won't be "legal", meaning the bus will be operating at less than designed stopping capacity. An unbraked Tow'd is the same as a big kinetic energy push from behind, (E=M*V^2??), since the weight of the Tow'd is not borne by the braked wheels and therefore the weight works against, rather than contributes to stopping the bus. This is the insidious aspect of the legal exposure that appends to an accident. Such a converter can (unfortunately), correctly be portrayed as somebody messing with something "way over their head" and the lawyer's "poor" client was victimized as a result. Easy, convincing argument. How many bus converters, much less vehicle dynamacists, would you expect to find on a Jury? Onward and Upward | ||
| Ray D
Rating: N/A |
Toad brakes are an insurance issue also, some insurance companies will void coverage if there are no toad brakes, they don't care how much it weighs. Ray d | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A |
I talked with the Va State Police today and they told me that I am supposed to have a braking system on my towed vehicle, because my toad falls under the "separate vehicle" classification and it's weight is more than 3,000 pounds. I would bet that most states have this law or a variation of it. This is straight from the Code of Va. § 46.2-1070. Brakes on trailers. Every semitrailer, trailer, or separate vehicle attached by a drawbar, chain, or coupling to a towing vehicle other than a farm tractor or a vehicle not required to obtain a registration certificate and having an actual gross weight of 3,000 pounds or more, shall be equipped with brakes controlled or operated by the driver of the towing vehicle, which shall conform to the specifications set forth in § 46.2-1067 and shall be of a type approved by the Superintendent. Farm trailers used exclusively for hauling raw agricultural produce from farm to farm or farm to packing shed or processing plant within the normal growing area of the packing shed or processing plant and trailers or semitrailers drawn by a properly licensed motor vehicle but exempt from registration, shall be exempt from the requirements of this section. "Gross weight" for the purpose of this section includes weight of the vehicle and the load upon such semitrailer, trailer, or separate vehicle. This section shall not apply to any vehicle being towed for repairs, repossession, in an emergency, or being moved by a wrecker when two wheels of the towed vehicle are off the ground. (Code 1950, § 46-286; 1958, c. 541, § 46.1-280; 1959, Ex. Sess., cc. 21, 90; 1962, c. 313; 1966, c. 654; 1968, c. 164; 1970, c. 169; 1989, c. 727.) | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
I found Towing World's state laws listing: http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm --Geoff | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
The Towingworld site says that Virginia has no laws regarding brakes on towed cars when the post by Dale clearly shows that they do. This is another case of checking the law before you drive in each area, or install the brakes to be legal everywhere. There is no doubt that some will drive without them and never get caught and some who will be required to unhook the towed vehicle (a real problem if you don't have a second driver with you). Using the argument that you are legal in the state where your tags are issued certainly doesn't fly in British Columbia. The RV magazines have lots of letters from readers who have been stopped for towed brake infractions. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
Or Brake Infarctions. as the case may be.... Florida says over 2000 lbs. Trailers with a Gross weight over 3,000 lbs require all axles to have brakes. If it trails along behind you it's a trailer...  DOT cops are now ticketing anything that moves around here that doesn't have lights,lenses,chains and reflectors all working and in the right places. They haven't been bothering the tourists too much but giving the locals hell at times. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
VIRGINIA 46.2-1070:-1067 3,000 n/s n/s Combination must be able to stop within 40’. Trailers 3,000 lbs. to 10,000 lbs. require brakes on one axle. State Brake Laws (PDF file) Say what? Trailers, yeah. Cars/vehicles in tow? RVs are usually exempt from these regulations, as well as what they're towing. It's the reason we don't stop at weigh stations and fill out log books. I think having a breakaway system is valid, but if you're insured, you're insured. That's much ado about nuttin'. Dave's right about the overzealous gestapo, but the law's the law. Show 'em your RV reg and title, and ask them why you don't have to stop at DOT locations. Then tell 'em why. | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
JohnMC9: snip<every>snip The term 'separate vehicle' would seem to cover a towed car. The section says that farm vehicles are exempt in certain circumtances but I don't see any exemption for RVs. RV's are usually not required to report at inspection stations because they are not involved in the fuel tax laws that apply to commercial carriers. They are not exempt from the law on vehicle requirement. There is reciprocity on driver's licence requirements but not vehicle requirements once you leave the superslab. | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Rating: N/A |
In Va. that also applies to any trailer such as the ones you would haul a race car or anything else. A private trailer or car being towed (seperate vehicle)does not have to stop at a weigh station, but if it weighs 3000 or more and doesn't have brakes they can and will write you a summons and make you unhook until you get it right. I was told by a Sworn Officer there are no exemptions to this rule. Commercial or not you will have brakes on ANYTHING you tow in Va if it weighs more than 3K. And oh yes they have portable scales, Plus they will go by the registration of the towed vehicle. Va. State Police 1-800-542-5959 | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Well Stan... I wish some lawyer would drop in and help me... Here in the US, we have a Constitution that says in article IV, that each state shall respect other state's matters (real loose transcript). If "Alabama" doesn't require insurance, the driver can drive through Georgia, where insurance is required. A vehicle registered on Florida with no inspection sticker (it's not required in Florida), can drive in Massachusetts, where it is mandatory to have a sticker. If my state does not require a windshield wiper blade for each side of the windshield, Georgia cannot fine me for the absence of a wiper blade. Virginia (and all states) require vehicles registered in their own state to conform to the rules and regulations of their state, including specific vehicle equipment. If you drive down from Canada, through Virginia, and lack specific Virginia required equipment, because your state/country does not require that same specific equipment, Virginia can not fine you. Can some cop give you a ticket? Yeah. He can tell you you have warts and give you a ticket. Tell me.... as you travel about the countryside.....do you worry about every nuance of each state's regulations? Do you worry even more, that some law may have been passed during your journey, without you knowing? Or are you like me, and only concern yourself with compliance of the laws of the state you're registered in? My towed vehicle is not equipped with brakes that are operated by my tow vehicle. It is not required here. I am not afraid to drive through Virginia, nor am I afraid to be stopped and ticketed. I can go to a Virginia court if necessary, and have the blasted thing tossed out. | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
Here is one version of State breaking laws (way down on the bottom of this large site) http://www.roadkingtrailers.com/MAINTENANCE.htm |
