| Author | Message | ||
| Brent Coursey
Rating: N/A |
OK, I know this is a little off-bus topic, but I have a camper that just came into our campground and said that he had put about 3 gallons of Gas in his Diesel truck(1990 Ford) at his last gas..er Diesel stop. He realized it immediately and is running off his other tank. I told him, I would ask you guys because I know someone knows the answer: Will it hurt to run his other tank that has a few gallons of gas in it? | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Rating: N/A |
As a previous gas station owner, I have expierenced several diesel owners do the same thing. 3 gallons in a 20 gal tank is MUCH to VOLITOL!!! I have seen burned pistons in a couple miles of driving! And they always want to blame the service station owner, somehow?? DON'T DO IT! Nick- | ||
| Jon W. Rating: N/A |
I know diesel fuel in a gasoline powered internal combustion engine will ruin the engine (Jet fuel into a piston engine is a typical example) but I also know that in an emergency a turbine engine will tolerate gasoline. But I have never heard anybody run gas in a diesel. For the price of a tank of fuel he can eliminate any risk. I would drain the contaminated tank of fuel and put in diesel. The equation I typically use is the risk versus reward one, and in this case he saves the price of a tank of fuel, or he ruins a diesel engine. Does he feel lucky today? | ||
| WEC4104 Rating: N/A |
The safe answer is no. The cost and effort to empty the tank far out weighs the risks he would be taking. One thing you did not mention is whether the tank now holds mostly pure gasoline, or whether the 3 gallons were added to a significant amount of diesel already in the tank. What is the current mix ratio? There are some folks that intentionally add small amounts of gasoline to diesel tanks (100:1 ratio) claiming some particular benefit or another. [anti-gel agent in winter, injector cleaner, whatever] But most of these folks lean more toward "urban myth spreaders" rather than quoting scientific research. Burning a much higher ratio of gasoline risks problems on several fronts. Gas is going to kill some of the natural lubricity of diesel fuel, so you have inherent friction issues. Also, the higher compression ratio in a diesel engine will ignite the gas mixture much earlier in the piston stroke.(big time knock). The gas mix will also burn significantly hotter. In short, lots of things could happen, none of them good. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
In the real world, truckers have been adding gasoline to diesel for years during cold weather, some in pretty great quantity. Although I never did it, it is or was commonly done, I have never heard of a problem from it. Some old ratio I heard was 5 gal gasoline to 50 diesel. | ||
| David Hartley (Drdave)
Rating: N/A |
I don't know if a dirty trick would work or not, Probably could add about 5 gallons of nice clean veggie oil to the mix to tone down the ratio. But like I said I don't know if that would work. I did that once when I had no other choice on a tractor when someone crossed up gas cans on me. They put Diesel in the red can and Gasoline in the Yellow one. Always get your own fuel !!!  | ||
| Brent Coursey
Rating: N/A |
Thanks Guys...he is going to play it safe. He says THANKS! Brent | ||
| Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A |
My wife accidently put some gas in our old Mercedes 300 Turbo-Diesel, and it ran like crap until I put some diesel fuel treatment/stabilizer in it, it broke down the gas and it ran fine after that. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Donald - Ditto! Our old Mercedes manual said to use 1/2 -1/2 mix of gas/diesel during deep winter months. Our Peugeot and VW diesels also did well with gas added to the fuel during winter. And the v12 Brockway I drove (in the 60s) during the winter, ran with some gas added... I seriously doubt 3 gal in a truck tank would matter. Where's that guy going to dump that fuel..... I'll be there with my bus... | ||
| JJ
Rating: N/A |
Greetings, My tenant had a dozer that he used to start on gas and then switch over to diesel...if I remember correctly. Smoked like the Grant Park ribfest... JJ | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
I just read some interesting words about gas/diesel mixes: "The old timers got away with this because high sulfur diesel fuel had enough lubricity to take some thinning. Today’s low sulfur diesel fuels have adequate lubricity, but I wouldn't put anything in the tank that would thin out the fuel, reduce lubricity, or attract water. " From here: http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ Soooo.... what I may have gotten away with way back then, may not do as well today. The old diesels weren't like the newer 4 cycle jobs with all the pollution %$#^ added... and the fuel itself may be blended in some "special" way... Things were so much easier, back then... | ||
| Tim Boyle (Bigtim44)
Rating: N/A |
If it was me,I would put a quart of ATF in the offending tank then top it off with diesel and run it. by the way someone mentioned that jet fuel ruins piston engines,this is not true.I used about 800 gallons of de-fueled 'Jet A' in various diesel engines last summer. | ||
| Kevin Black (Kblackav8or)
Rating: N/A |
I second that. Jet Fuel is not that different from diesel except cleaner and with fewer BTU's per measure. You can run it in a diesel though most add a little something for added lubrication. Jet fuel is no mystery, mostly keroscene refined to be consistant, stable, store well, resist cold etc. Diesel won't hurt your gas engine either. Gas is bad for diesels and can be bad for turbines depending. Don't mix gas with your diesel. I disagree on running it with any or more then about a 30:1 ratio. If you want to enhance your diesel, add something designed for the job, if you can't get that, add some synthetic 2 stroke oil. It is designed to burn and provide lubrication at the same time. ATF isn't designed to burn but does tend to act as a detergent. International dozers and probably others used to have a carbuereter, a decompression device, a distributer, spark plugs and yes you would warm it up running on gas. Once warmed up you would shut off the petcock for gas, release the compression release lever and advance the diesel throttle all in about 10 seconds before the engine quit. It wasn't running on gas at full compression. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A |
snip ** Diesel won't hurt your gas engine either. it'll certainly foul your plugs at minimum | ||
| Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A |
There are good and bad suggestions above! With the engines of old especially our beloved 2-strokes yes you could get away with mixing gas for a winter blend if #1 fuel wasn't available! but I ain't sure I ever knew of anyone using 50/50% we usually added about 5 gallons of gas to 150 gallons of diesel! But I ain't sure I'd try it with a 7.3 Navistar (which is what came in the '90 Ford) as I've towed many a U-Hual with this same engine that had major engine damage from renters running them on gas by mistake or stupidity!). I'd say if the guy put some oil or ATF in that tank topped with diesel he'd probably be ok, but I'd want it diluted as possible! Just my opinion! BK | ||
| Jon W. Rating: N/A |
"I know diesel fuel in a gasoline powered internal combustion engine will ruin the engine (Jet fuel into a piston engine is a typical example)...." That is the quote. I know Jet A is akin to diesel, but when you stick it in a 100LL piston engine bad stuff happens. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Kevin I found out to my surprise that gasoline in a turbine causes no problems. The operators manual for a Beech King Air 350 clearly states that if you stop for jet A and the airport don't have some, just put gasoline in it and keep flying! The Kansas Governors plane came home on gasoline more than once! We also used Jet A in all the diesel powered equipment, worked just as good as diesel as far as I could tell. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Hey John, are you a turbodieselregister guy too? Email me, click on my name for address. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Naww, not a "member", just a lurker. There's a million tons of great data there, eh? | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
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OK, a question for all you diesel fuel experts. What damage, if any, will be caused by running off road (red) diesel fuel in a new Dodge diesel pickup? Richard | ||
| WEC4104 Rating: N/A |
Richard: The damage from the red dyed fuel comes from the fine$ when the Feds catch up with you. WEC4104 | ||
| Tim (Bigtim44)
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The problem with 'red' diesel is not the fuel but how its stored,usually in an older storage tank that has sediment and water contamination which in turn causes problems with blocked filters and stuff. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
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Yep, it is the same fuel. You get fined only if you are too dumb to claim you put ATF in the diesel to "clean the injectors". I understand that the dye in ATF is the same dye in no tax fuel, so keep a bottle of ATF handy to "prove" that is where the dye came from. I never did it, but the Kansas farmers sure did. Of course with a genset, you can always claim the dyed fuel was for the diesel genset. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
Richard, you can put an aux tank in the bed of the Dodge, and use it "to haul fuel to your tractors". Sometimes I have heard of the lines getting "mixed up" and inadvertently fueling the Cummins! :-) | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A |
Yeah, I know that, but try and tell that to some of these rednecks around here that have an unlimited amount of free fuel available. LOL BTW, how do the FEDS check on the use of off road fuel? Is there an electronic means that they use to check exhaust as the trucks drive by on the highway or do they have to actually dip the tank to check for presence of the red dye. Richard | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
Diesel in a gas vehicle may foul the plugs, run often enough or concentrated enough will certainly foul and ruin the Oxygen sensors and foul up and possibly plug the catalytic converter, could be expensive. | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
Sound like someone has recovered from his former occupation, way to go. I will have to look into that dye issue, one might be safe to add a little of that all-i-buy transmission fluid to be safe or at least confuse a proper fuel test! Not that I am counseling anyone to commit tax fuel fraud, or anyone on this board is either. | ||
| Carroll4104
Rating: N/A |
Here in Western NC they will just pull over a likely suspect and check the fuel in the tank. Been told if there's any hint of color drag out the check book. Carroll4104 | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Wow... the "feds and red fuel" urban myth once again? (heh heh heh) I think the federale is more interested in catching the ones selling fuel and not collecting/paying taxes, than some RVer driving around in his converted bus with a tank full of it.. Even if some rookie gestapo did check a tank, seeing the red would likely produce the question: "where did you buy this"? Since the guy that sold it may have sold hundreds of thousands of tax-free gallons of it...... While you may have only used one tank full for the year. Unk Sammy's got bigger and better beasts to squash, than Mr. do-it-yourselfer. Hah. And I thought -I- was the paranoid one here! HAR de HAR HAR! | ||
| truthhunter@shaw.ca Rating: N/A |
Not paranoid (fear in the unreal) as I really do get tickets for spitting on the sidewalk and such , more like institutionally traumatized! Of course it doesnt bother me now that I know too wear my Alcan hat , dull side out hehehe | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
Last winter the feds set up a check point for all diesel powered units heading to Yuma from Quartzsite. They then dipped the tanks. It happened one day in AZ, but have not heard of it elsewhere. | ||
| Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A |
I sure was glad I had that gizmo in my filler neck that day in AZ, it is like a small container that fits inside the filler neck, and you fill it full of non dyed fuel :-). I don't think the feds care about the fuel sellers, it is perfectly legal for anyone to sell or buy dyed fuel, that is why they dye it! It is the USE that makes the offense. The grapevine also tells me that you don't want to get too secure in your methods, they are now unscrewing a filter on the power unit, since that is the only way in court they can assure the judge that it was in fact going thru the engine that drove the wheels. Oh well, back to the old transmission oil trick I guess. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
truthhunter - Paranoia run rampant? HAR!! ----- For those of us that are driving around with the bus windows in.... and the bus still looking like a bus...... How many times have you been stopped for failure to have a recent fuel tax sticker or decal affixed to the side panel? How about those missing DOT numbers? Have you ever been stopped for not pulling into a weigh station with your semi-converted bus? Does anyone get stopped for not stopping at a railroad crossing while driving their bus conversion? Yet...... they're going to stop you to check the fuel in your tank... There's a topic in the archives, titled: Will "off-road" deisel harm my DD6V92 Turbo? The topic was beat to death there, as well... Worth re-reading. | ||
| John MC9 Rating: N/A |
Don - Point was (intended to be), the unscrupulous sellers sell red dyed fuel as "road use" fuel, collect the taxes on the sale, and pocket the cash. Those are the ones the "feds" may want to do war with... But one of us? Waffoe? Just how much fuel tax can any one of us cheat the gubberment out of, in the years(?) we own a bus? Few hundred bucks, tops? Really..... The gubberment's not all that invasive...! (sounds strange, comin' from me, eh?) | ||
| pat young
Rating: N/A |
Lotsa good data here Here are my dos centavos: My freind Lee got a $10,000 fine for running Red in Nevada. Watch your behinds all you commerical guys. Nevada may even have soem kid of yourng cop traing school for the Highway Patrol, i.e. lotsa young guys with H*** O**ns for the easy money that fining a trucker can bring. When I was working for Uncle Sam and fighting the Russkies in Deutschland, I drove a "multifuel" diesel made by Continental. Being Very Low on fuel one time, I stopped some MPs who had ten gallons of gas in their Jerry Cans. We put it in (Hey it says "Multifuel"...) and it just wouldn't start. It was my summation that maybe the gas was so much thinner than diesel that too much was going into the cylinders for combusition, sorta like being flooded. but being all of 18 years old, my diesel knowledge extended to the fact that I knew it was diesel because it was greasy and smelly, sorta like a lof of BNO members. Well, we went and got 15 gallons of diesel, diluted the gas, and she started right up and my deuce and a half got home the next 40 miles without incident, except I had to stop once or twice and thwart Communism. Patrick in Fresno | ||
| motorcoach1 Rating: N/A |
i used 2 cycle oil when i added gas to diesel for lube quality's and low ash content when burned | ||
| Jarlaxle Rating: N/A |
A Conti "Multifuel" will burn a maximum 50% gasoline mix. You forgot to RTM. My friend's Benz 300TDT actually SUGGESTS adding gasoline, up to, IIRC, a 40% mix (he doesn't). | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
When we were biulding the TAPS pipeline from the north slope, the only fuel used in the diesel generators and other small diesels was jet fuel. I don't know for sure what they were putting in the trucks, but my money's on the jet fuel. There were no paved roads, so I think it was all used without paying any highway fuel tax. Temps were running to 40 below, so #2 would have been out of the question if any given machine was ever shut down. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska |