| Author |
Message |
R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.40)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 10:14 pm: | |
Have a bus in conversion that has not been started in a month or so. Bottom line...won't turn it over. What's the best way to just get it started. A trickle charger hasn't done it and a "jump from my RAM, while in time might do it, doesn't seem practical. If a charger is recommended, what size, etc>
Many thanx in advance for advice.
R.C Bishop |
Jerry H. (Coachconversion) (65.2.65.246)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:41 pm: | |
R.C.
I've jump started our 102A3, but used two vehicles with 12v batteries. I am assuming you've got a 24v system on your bus and only 12v on the RAM as I also had.
Since the 24v system uses two 12v batteries in series, you need to connect one 12v vehicle to one battery and the other vehicle to the other battery.
We left vehicles idle for a bit before attempting to start 102. Worked fine.
Jerry |
Matt James (209.173.121.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 7:57 am: | |
You should be able to start it with just one 12V
battery if not in to cold of cond. and if it starts easy. |
FAST FRED (209.26.87.102)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 10:15 am: | |
Depending on how old / abused they are , batterys loose between 10% to 30% per month, just sitting.
If the tops have any grease or crud , its MUCH faster.
A battery has about 72 hours at 50% SOC {state of charge} before long term dammage begins.
You probably can heavily charge your coach set , enough to get you started , in warm weather, but it sounds like Battery Time!
The simplest {not cheapest }and perhaps best method of helping the batt set is a full sized solar pannel , AND a charge controller.
FAST FRED |
Doug (Toolman) (207.44.56.89)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 10:19 am: | |
R.C.,
I picked up a Sears Die Hard charger about a year ago.. Will charge both 12v and 24v.. 2/10/20Amp.. Regular/Deep/Gel... Nice charger and was about $80 if I recall right..
Toolman |
Jerry H. (Coachconversion) (65.2.65.246)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 12:49 pm: | |
R.C.
I bought (I think) the same Sears charger. It is part #200.713201. I can't remember what I paid, but it wasn't too bad and yes it works fine for a small unit.
Ditto,
Jerry |
Earl-8-Ky (209.250.53.230)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 8:13 pm: | |
The next time I have to replace my 8D's I amd going to go to Wal-Mart and buy 4 0f their best bats. They have a 9 year warrenty with 3 years free replacement.That sure beats the 1 year warrenty on the 8D's About the same money. |
R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.49)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 10:02 pm: | |
I posted this a couple of hours ago, but for some reason it has dropped off the board. Thanx to all who responded. Info is very helpful. BTW. Sears locally is advertising a 40/2 charger thru this coming weekend @$69.99..Regular 109.99...think I'll have another look at them. (was in their store earlier this week).
FF, in your opinion, is the Solar System with charging unit worth the expense. Am assuming it does its work daily thru the days, weeks (months?) of the vehicle not being moved? Thanx for the heads up on the State of Charge.
Thanx again. RCB |
FAST FRED (209.26.87.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 6:32 am: | |
With in reason the solar units keep the batts at 100% virtually all the time.
The only danger is overcharging , and using an adjustable charger solves that.
The fanciest system would have a solargizer or similar pulse anti sulfation unit.
This will keep the batts like new , and helps make sure the batt set does not sulfate on a deep discharge.
Even the beat batt sets only have a limited amount of deep discharges.
Surette the top of the line , estimates 1500 50% discharges for many of their batts.
Start batts are never discharged , very much, and a quality brand , taken care of will last a decade.
As in most things , you get what you pay for.
FAST FRED |
Jim Robinson (152.163.207.52)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 6:12 pm: | |
I replaced my 2 8d's with 2 12volt group 31's from sam's club less money and a 7 yr warrenty, I removed bus air and heat and was told I do would not need 8d's just for starting, It's been about 6 mo's now with no problem. I also have a switch so if thier is a problem I can use my house batt's to start coach, very simple to do just ask Jack Conrad to show you how.
Work/Play safely
Jim Robinson |
R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.9)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 7:51 pm: | |
Thanx again for all input..Borrowed a 30 amp charger from a friend and within an hour or so, fired right up!!. Also bought one of the Sears units I mentioned in the above post. Hope it's a satisfactory investment.
So then FF, if start batteries don't discharge much, assuming a new charge each time the alternator runs, what makes them drop off when the unit isn't started for a while...just age? I think these batteries are two-three years old from what I was told by the seller, Northern AZ Univ.
Wonder if there is a drain along the line somewhere. They installed a large fuse link in the engine access bay "to help keep from draining the batteries..." In the 4 months I have owned the bus, I have kept this fuse pulled while it is just sitting, but I note that there is a solenoid (in the panel next to the driver seat) which seems to be un affected by the fuse I mentioned. Haven't attempted to chase anything yet.
Thanx, again, for the info.
RCB |
FAST FRED (209.26.87.85)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 5:28 am: | |
Its the internal chemistry ,of how batts work that causes them to self discharge 10 to 30% per month . New ones loose only a bit , but old batts dont last long , with out some extra help.
Also batts take a good while to get recharged , a trip around the block , or some destructive "hi ideling" wont do it either.
The reason is the regulator will only give the batts about 1/2 of what is needed in any one hour , to keep down heat loads.
So you have a set 50% soc , so in the first hour the reg will give the set 25% plus some to push the charge in.
The second hour the set sees another 12% . third hour another 6% ect till there full.
Which takes a long time.
Jest sittin , if the batts are down 30% , and another 1% for the start energy , you would get 16% + the first hour 8% the second ect.
The big problem is if you stop the charge at say 94% soc , after a while that last 6 percent gets lost forever and your batt capacity is reduced forever. A series of not fully recharging the batt set will reduce the life a good deal.
The alt energy folk , or crusing boat folk , that have this problem purchase special V regulators with a very different brain , and the added capacity to equalize the batt set.
Equalizing is a controlled overcharge at about 1% of soc to 16 V or so.
This heavy gassing and overcharge will help restore the set to full cap , if done monthly.
FAST FRED |
R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 10:01 pm: | |
OK, so if one changes to a V Regulator, monthly "outing" and solar/charge controller for the SIT, that should be a GOOD longterm solution for the bus, right? (Assuming new batteries, of course.) Any idea of toal cost of such an ambitious goal? ballpark 'll do. SS goes only so far you know!!
...
Hey FF, thanx for your patience and your endurance on the subject.....and the information! RCB |
FAST FRED (209.26.87.25)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 5:43 am: | |
Ballpark
A 3 stage regulator is $150 to $200.
A solar pannel is at least $300.
The regulator for the pannel is $75 .
OR
There are inverters that have 3 stage charging , and equalizing , but you need a power cord , and invereters are expensive.
For long term boondockin thje best recharge solution is a DC alt belted from your gen set.
150A alt $150 .
3 stage regulator $150+
SMART Battery monitoring system "E Meter " or similar $150. { Built in as option on Big $$ inverters}
Pulse charger , Solargizer or similar $100.
For any system.
There are more options but this is 3 ways to construct a batt charging system.
FAST FRED |
R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.25)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 10:38 pm: | |
FF.....Muchas Gracias!! My budget is still in tact and in fact, could be better off than I had imagined. Any thoughts on the Generac?
Thanx again, Fred
RCB |
FAST FRED (209.26.87.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 5:48 am: | |
Only one on Generac.
They suck.
FAST FRED |
DrivingMissLazy (65.207.109.45)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 10:09 am: | |
Hey Fred, How do you bolt on a 150 amp alternator to a gen set? All I have seen are direct coupled (engine and Alternator) gen sets with no place for a pully takeoff, other than the little alternator for charging the genset battery. I do not believe that takeoff is big enough to pull a 150 amp alternator.
Richard |
FAST FRED (209.26.87.25)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 6:00 am: | |
Many of the new diesel noisemakers use the fine Kubota lawn tractor engine.
Others are from some other industry.
Many of These can be fitted with extra sheves in the front of the crank.
When used in marine use , this is very common for extra alternator , fridge compressor , belted bilge pump , ect.
ASK the mfg, not a local dealer about the option ,
and the factory RATING , for how much power can be taken out the front.
FAST FRED |
R C Bishop (128.123.88.39)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 10:49 pm: | |
OK. So FF, if the Generac is not in your repertoire, what is your recommended diesel genset? Since I have a diesel engine in the bus aw'ready, it makes sense to use one tank of fuel. Note the difference in $$$$$. Is it a personal thing OR? Argument, por a favor.
Thanx, RCB |
FAST FRED (209.26.87.86)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 9:30 am: | |
The intended use for the coach should detirmine the choice of gen set.
TEC { total electric coach}with 24/7 operation , a diesel is the only choice.
However the cost of a good fancy soundproofing system and exhaust must be figured as part of the start up costs.
RV use where the set will only see a 100 or 200 use a year ,
gas is easiest to live with, in terms of maint ect.The small difference in fuel cost will be returned in inital outlay , and maint differences.
For Snowbirds like my self , where a gen set hardly gets any use from year to year ,
the Propane makes the most sense.
Advantages are the carb doesn't gum up when inoperative , the P sets are the quietest , and do not have a poisonous or stinky exhaust.
Added P advantage is the service life is closer to a diesel because the oil stays so much cleaner.
{although wearing one out is hardly a snowbird problem}.
And P will start when its really cold with no heaters or other help.
Different choices for different usage.
The Kubota , and Yanmar are fine diesels.
The old gas OHNO 6 or 7KW is fine for gas, parts, service everywhere.
Many used ones only need a quick rebuild.
The new Honda RV 6KW can be had as gas or propane .
The water cooled units would be best for a serious winter boondocker, as the heat can be captured.
Also with a marine style domestic hot water heater , the waste heat can be used.
FAST FRED |
Bill Schwab (216.78.89.1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 4:19 pm: | |
RC;
To answer your question directly, the two most common sources for a diesel genset is WRICO in OR and POWERTECH in FL. A new one (to me) is NEXT GENERATION in JAX, FL.
They have a small (5kw) unit so compact, it is no larger than your 28 quart ice chest. Really cool.
Take care.
Bill |
Jerry H. (Coachconversion) (65.2.65.246)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 5:24 pm: | |
Another place that offes Diesel generators is http://centralmainediesel.com
Worth a look. |
R.C. Bishop (128.123.88.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 10:03 pm: | |
Guys, thanx to all of you we have done this thing from front to back and possibly back again..I really appreciate the input. And what a pleasure to see all the POSITIVE HELP and comments. VERY informative. This CONTINUES to be the absolute BEST board on the net. Thanx much to each and every one. THANX, Ian; and FF, I think you hit it on the head for me; and Jerry...the Central Main Site is great. Never saw so many generators that one could compare side by side. Noticed they posted "suggested retail price"....wonder if they beat that?
Keep a tight wheel & Muchas Gracias from the Third World, (NM).
RCB |
Bill Schwab (216.78.88.200)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 4:51 pm: | |
RC;
The reason they say 'suggested retail' is that they sell alot of their stuff on e-bay.
Search under 'generator' and you will find them. Happy bidding.
Bill. |
RC Bishop (128.123.88.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 9:43 pm: | |
Hey........thanx, Bill!
RCB |
R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.44)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 4:30 pm: | |
Bill, you mentioned the 5kw unit from NextGeneration... Is it quiet or typical? Honda supposedly now has a quiet unit. Only saw a pic of it in the Central Maine Catalog.
RCB |