| Author |
Message |
Bob cox
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:26 am: | |
Is it realy nessary to run 8D batteries? If not what are some ideas for replacements? |
dougtheboneifiedbusnut
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 11:07 am: | |
Hey Bob,
Not at all, I have 4 group 31's that give me over 3k cca. Starts my Cummins in a hurry and they are a lot easier to handle. |
Bob Cox
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 11:30 am: | |
Hey thanks, You are so correct abot the weight and size. Another bustnut friend as also told me about everstart batteries that have 1000 clod crank A.H's each and he only uses two. |
bgs4104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:10 pm: | |
Have you look at Odyssey batteries
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/
Look at PC2250 for size like 8d
Call Frank at West Coast Batt.
888-521-1266 for more info
he is using the odyssey's in his
eagle bus for more that 10 years! |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:12 pm: | |
Interstate's 31 series, 950cca - two for the 24v mci works dandy. |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:21 pm: | |
If you still run the factory air you'll need the 8 D's, if not then you don't need them. A lot of people are just using two group 31's.
Ed |
Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 1:05 pm: | |
Using only 2ea Grp 31's is okay until the weather turns cold or you have a fuel problem requiring turning the engine many times. I have 4ea Grp 31 starting batteries, they don't take that much more room or cost that much more and they give me that extra assurance of a successfull start in trying times.
--Geoff
'82 RTS AZ |
Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 1:11 pm: | |
If you're trying to start a cold dd 2-stroke, The 8 D's will be better. If you're using an engine preheater or are in warm climates, it may not matter.
8 D's are a heavier built/ constructed battery. A lot of us don't need them, but some do.
Also, make sure your cables are good & the connections corrosion free.
kyle4501 |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 2:37 pm: | |
Size in my opinion means less than the cold cranking amps of the particular battery. All batteries of a certain size are not rated the same. |
Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:09 pm: | |
If you expect to start your engine at 35F or below, get the two 8d units. Otherwise, two or three group 31 batteries can get you by. A key to a quick start is spin speed and the two 8D batteries will win that battery in cold temperatures. |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 6:54 am: | |
CCA amps is measured as how long (30 seconds) the batts will hold up to a discharge at a certain temperature.
IT DOES NOT measure the ability to recover and do it again , and again, as our 2 strokes need to start unassisted in really cold weather.
WEIGHT is the only measure of the batteries ability , for this servcice.
8D were chosen for a reason, If you Do not need the ability to start in REAL cold ,tiny batts will work.
FAST FRED |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 1:52 pm: | |
"WEIGHT is the only measure of the batteries ability , for this servcice."
You may be right Fred, but battery companies don't agree with you there. I do agree that it is a GENERAL indicator of ability. I have seen some very heavy 8D batteries that would not light a flashlight bulb.
Incidentally, when talking to a battery manufacturer last month, they claim that lead, the main cost of batteries, had just taken a LARGE jump in cost, new batteries will contain less or cost more as a result. Now might be the best time of all to buy what you need. |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 2:41 pm: | |
uhm perhaps ask them again if you get a chance DTX- was the battery manufacturer expecting to sell you some overstock at the time he made his commodities forecast on strategic metal reserves or was he just ad-(vert)-libing on there own stockpiled futures' supply? Usely as domestic mining operations finish gearing up (as has been the trend up here over the last 18 months) the "by product" metals that often trickle into the industrial stockpile usely cause a downward trend in spot pricing as a result of oversupply until old futures' contract qoutatas are renewed and adjusted with the mainline producer of singular bulk commodities extraction. Or so I have observed over the last few decades of macro economic trends of cyclic supply & demand. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 2:55 pm: | |
truthhunter, could you say that again slower so that I might understand it?
Richard |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 3:11 pm: | |
Always consider the source and what there motive is for giving you the information. Any other truths you may chose to gleam (between the lines) or what you chose to invest in as a result is not my liability as my observations were only implied requiems that I am mandated to share in order to obtain more specific data clarification. ("making accurately informed decisions" processes)
Hope that helps as dogs have just ordered me to get off the computer (they have decided it is time to take me for my walk) while the sun is still shining and before the snow gets to melty (they don't like wet fur). |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 3:39 pm: | |
I think he is saying to pitch my plans for a chicken house that I had a Fox draw up for me. |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 6:09 pm: | |
Not at all, just qualifying why it does not make sense that the price of lead should be expect to rise. Hoping there may be opportunity for that battery rep to perhaps ad a wee bit of useful detail "such as our supply demand is projected to outstrip our current production quotas due to the upsurge in the photovoltaic systems demand" or something at least believable and not contrary to most likely market trends (and for those that are doing the stock market, a little extra outsider tipping speculation). If my eccentric request should garner some further detailed facts beyond "the price of lead is gong to skyrocket and push the manufactures cost up $3 per 8D battery (= $189 at the retail level) I might be able to justify an adjustment to the proqurement schedule for the house battery's (with age parish /necessity schedule of use =factored into the bottom line) Hope that clarifies the mud for you fine and respected gentleman. ( I was not intending to suggesting the battery rep was trying to above atmospheric pressure sell you, something was lost in the translation process fear) |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 12:28 am: | |
What scares me..... is that -I- understand TH!
The CCA (cold cranking amps) is really all that matters
regardless of battery case size. The *D's* have an
overwhelming CCA advantage due to the amount of plates
inside that massive container.. 8d Specs (1200 avg)
But the 31 series have 950 cca, and weigh in at less than
half the 8D weght.
Will it suffice in sub-zero weather? Well.... I'd rather add two
more 31's, than deal with the 8D's. The damned 8D's don't
last. I got less than six months out of the last new 8D I bought.
And a 6 mo guarantee is about all you'll get, with an 8D.
With conventional 31 series, they're rated a 12-18 month
guarantee.
My truckin' pal, with a DD 8v92, using a 12v system,
has 31's..... Why would I need more?
Like Ed Jewett said... If you're not running the OE air system,
you don't need the 8D's. |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 1:11 am: | |
Over the past dozen or so years, I have also noticed a change. When I went to gp 31 batteries, I got a pair at 1150 cold cranking amps with a 36 month free replacement warranty. The best 8D was about 900 cold cranking amps, and the warranty was only several months - prorated! Last month in shopping, I have yet to get my hands on a gp 31 with over 1000 cold cranking amps, and yet the 8D size has upped their CCA to beat the gp 31. I would still take the grpup 31 option, you simply get more battery for the money. |
T. (Bluegrass)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 10:58 am: | |
Donald
I bought a 1100 cold cranking amp 8D some years ago for my MCI-7 at Sams Club and have hade no problems with this battery |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 1:38 pm: | |
What is the free replacement period and what was the total warranty time?
I have also found in the last month or so, getting a 1000 or better cold crank battery down here in the Rio Grande Valley is nearly impossible, but up in the far North country they seem to be common. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 9:12 pm: | |
At Melbourne, Fl., Walmart and Sams had the same two year
unconditional replacement for all their batteries. Walmart didn't
carry the 31 or 8D, but Sams did. At Sams, the 8D had a
six month pro-rate replacement, while the 31 series had the full
two-year thing.
Interstate Battery, and a few other distributors also gave a
six month pro-rate for the 8D, but free replacement (year or
more) with anything else.
As most here said, using four 31s, if you really need cold
weather starting, still beats using two 8D's. |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 6:21 am: | |
" using four 31s, if you really need cold
weather starting, still beats using two 8D's."
For the same winter service , 6 gp 31 would be required.
FAST FRED |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 9:58 am: | |
Here we go again. Why would it take four 1100 cca batteries equal two 8D 1000 CCA batteries? I have replaced the silly 8d batteries with two group 31s in several buses, and that was far from what happened in real life. ALWAYS the bus cranked faster, snd started better with the group 31 batteries, with the far better warranty and less cost.
Big class 8 trucks came from the factory with two group 31 batteries routinely, and were started in the coldest parts of the usa without problems. I know, I owned and drove one of them. |
Dallas Farnworth (Dal300)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 10:45 am: | |
Donald,
I agree with your analysis of group 31's v: 8D's. 8D is an old technology.
However, I must disagree on the 2 battery system you mention for class 8 trucks.
Since the '70's, Most 8's have been spec'ed with 4 group 31's incorporating a series/parallel switch that starts the engine with a 24V starter and leaves the rest of the system at 12V. When the starter button is disengaged the whole system returns to 12V.
I've run everything from GMC's to Mack's, Pete's, KW's, Ford's, Sterling's, Freightliners, Emryvilles (IH), IH Navistar's, Internationals, Marmon's, White's, GMC White's, Volvo White's, White GMC's, White Freightliner's,(a really neat restoration PIE cabover), Volvo's, even a Chevy; and the majority were 12/24 with a series/parallel.
Even the newer heavy equipment such as Terex, Euclid, Komatsu, Cat, etc. uses that system.
Dallas |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 11:42 am: | |
You must be as old as me and dirt. Class 8 trucks dropped the series parallel stuff long ago to the best of my knowledge, most current mechanics don't even know what that is.
My 1989 Kenworth W900 with Cat 3406 came with two Group 31s, pure 12v system. Most everything else in that era did the same. I have a relative that is fleet service manager for a fleet of 350 class 8 trucks, ALL of them came with and currently use two group 31's and a 12v system. I have not kept up with the newest stuff myself, but a trip to a Pete or KW dealer will prove me correct I believe. |
Dallas Farnworth (Dal300)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 12:05 pm: | |
Hmm,
In 2001, when My ex took my trucking company, I had a '95 FLD 120 and FLD 132
, '90 IH 9700, IH9670, '89 KW K100-E,
'97 Pete 377, and my favorite, the venerable Pete 359.
All of them had series/parallel.
Most were Cummins powered, NTC 400 or better, or Detroit 12L.
The 359 had a beautiful 12V71T ran like a top, would pass anything but a fuel stop.
The FLD 120 had a Cat 3406e @ 400hp. Fritz Freightliner was a hard worker with that Cat. GOod power, good economy.
Dallas |
Donald Lee Schwanke (Dontx)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 12:17 pm: | |
I would sure like to drive the 12v71T 359 Pete, a 3406b cat is still my favorite, 450 hard working horses there! That is most interesting, wonder why some used series parallel and some did not? Come on some of you young mechanics, what gives here? I still feel sure that they stopped the series parallel stuff in the 70's for the sections of the country I lived in at least. |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 1:47 pm: | |
What vintage was that 12v71T 359 Pete? Was she factory ordered that way or did you remake her. At least you have some good memories hey? Last I saw of that was a late 60's Hayes for BC logging. Lots of very welcome engine braking for it's day! |
Dallas Farnworth (Dal300)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 2:40 pm: | |
My 359 was actually my stepdads for years before he gave it to me to play with. I got it after it sat in the yard for about 8 years.
It started out life in 1971 for Renfro Logging in Idaho, got traded in for a replacement in '73. Sat on the lot until '74 when My step dad bought it.
It was specd with the 8V71 and 4X4 two stick transmission.
When it needed overhaul, my stepdad rebuilt it as a 8V71T with a 13spd road ranger (RTO 9613). The transmission didn't hanle the torque real well so it got put on the back lot.
Whe I got it I inframed the 71 and installed a RTO14613 After relocating all the mice, I worked on it for a few years off and on until I figured it was ready to work.
Twin 6" straight stacks would really make her beller coming off a grade.
About 2 years after I got her on the road I put in a new Jake, and then she really bellered!!!
Lovely truck, lovely engine.
Dallas |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 7:24 pm: | |
Dallas, Did you mean to say it was specd with the [12] v71 instead of the 8V71 and your stepdad converted to a "T"?
Or did he pull the 8V71 to replace with the 12V71?
One of the last jobs the DD rebuilder next door to my shop completed was a 12V71 for a irrigation system, IIRC. |
Dallas Farnworth (Dal300)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 7:04 am: | |
Marc,
Sorry about that!
It was speced with a 12V71 and when my step dad rebuilt it, he built it back as a 12V71T.
I must have had a senior brain flatulence event.
A 12V71 for a irrigation system? WOW, that's gotta be some system.
They just installed an emergency generation system where my wife works. I saw and heard them test run it, but couldn't get close enough to see what engine it was. I know it is big though. The metal container it's in is larger than most peoples garage and probably 14' high.
Twin stacks coming out of it really screamed when they lit it off.
It almost sounded like a 6-149, but, with twin stacks that wouldn't make sense.
Dallas |
Jarlaxle
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 6:42 pm: | |
2 healthy Group 31's will start a 6V71 or a Cummins M-11 in sub-zero weather. 8D's are drastic overkill. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 11:15 am: | |
When I was a desert rat we always put 6 volt starters on the sand rails we built which was a 12 volt electrical system. We started them hundreds of times and never had a starter failure by putting 12 volts to a six volt starter. Sure cranked those high performance VW's great.
Richard |
Jarlaxle
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 6:59 pm: | |
That was common on street rods---6V Ford flathead or Chevy Stovebolt six started with a 12V system. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 8:12 am: | |
Shoot. And I thought that was my original idea! LOL
Richard |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:56 pm: | |
I used a 12 v on a 24 volt Chrysler flat six in a M 37 had 20 years back. Made it almost startable in the -30 weather (with a hair dryer stuck in the intake, block heater and battery blanket). It endured well , just be conscious about overcranking, especially when the starter is already warm or hot. |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 5:21 am: | |
"just be conscious about overcranking, especially when the starter is already warm or hot."
Actually DC starters don't fair that badly when given doubble the voltage.
Long cranking at low voltages will overheat them with far greater consequences.
FAST FRED |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:12 pm: | |
Tanks muchly FF, you are so right about that $in real practice$ fact, even when the oil was thick as molasses from cold or the engine was hot soaked and flooded from the faulty primer pump (making the starter effectively underpowered for the increased job demands). As I was very self conscious about monitoring ( back then we used our fingers as we did not have laser thermometers) the modified application of doubled DC voltage and it really never did get hot as I was told to expect (I use to listen to others to much when I was young, but in the end that makes one think for themselves and discern belief from fact)A think corect with fact is a thing worth spraying! |