| Author |
Message |
pete hyser (4501pete)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 6:02 pm: | |
hi,
i have a friend who came from minnisota to buy my genset..he just picked up a 95 Dina yesterday...today..it is overheating intermittenly.flat road it overhears and has to back it down to 40,,just went threw a tunnel and it cooled right off. rad was checked, levels are good..besides the clutch on the fan..any ideas to tell him when he checks in? 6:04 EST
pete |
Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 6:13 pm: | |
Ahh boy I sure hate hearing about this! Even more so since I know who it is! Uhm well I'd say for starters to see if he can stop by a do it yerself car wash and wash the radiators out from the fan side out! To check out the belt and clutch and see what else could be restricting it! I'll make a call or 2 but really don't ahve much to go on yet! He's got my # and I might have his! I'll see what I can come up with and either call opr repost! Knuckle |
pete hyser (4501pete)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 6:27 pm: | |
ill tell him to call you..
we went over the belt, tranny overheating..air restriction...im waiting for the next call
pete |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 8:23 pm: | |
He uhhh... He does have enough water and coolant in the system, right? |
Pat Racine
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 8:47 pm: | |
This has happened to me before. It might be your fan clutch that the problem. The fan is turning but not up to speed. You need to insert the temporary bolts and go home. Then, you have the fan clutch checked. It might need replacing. Good luck!
Pat |
james dean boggs (Jd_boggs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 9:44 pm: | |
Check the temp in the engine compartment and see if the mechanicaL gage reads the same as inside. You may be getting intermitent false readings. I had to put a video camera aimed at the temp gage and displayed up front to see if it was accurate. In my case it was off by 40-50 degrees. |
pete hyser (4501pete)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 10:00 pm: | |
he was thinnin about the fan clutch to,all the bells and whistels went off..i told him to stock up on water and antifreeze.gauage hit 230 or so
i think he has a puter with him..im hoping he is reading this....whatever..im going to pfone in what you all said..see if that might help
pete |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 10:01 pm: | |
yep go for the $ bolts to do mechanical lock up and eliminate many possible causes till you can scan for fault codes and verify sensor input and control outputs$ as I recall reading in the $factory roadside procedures for the operator to due to safely finish the run$. At least your computer idiot protection is working. Of course you have confirmed the fluid levels and look for leaks and collasped hoses abnormal coolant pump noises that might stop you "cold-on-the -road" the road before resuming the limp home (or to a repair shop) |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 10:03 pm: | |
ps give the fan clutch a wobble to make certain it isn't suffering bearing failure as you don't won't a catastrophic failure to cause big time damage to other components before continuing on. |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 10:36 pm: | |
Oh hey...
"it is overheating intermittenly.flat road it overhears and
has to back it down to 40,,just went threw a tunnel and it
cooled right off"
Ok, this may sound presumptuous, but has he driven a bus
before? Is he lugging the engine, getting the heat up there..?
When he slows down it goes back to normal, as it should, so
how is it doing at 55-65 mph on flat road, without pushing it?
How is it, running in third, against the governor? Stays cool? |
Doug Wotring
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 10:52 pm: | |
Where's he at now? |
Brian Elfert
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 1:16 am: | |
I am at a hotel near Youngstown, Ohio right now. I am planning a trip to a local Detroit Diesel dealer as soon as they open in the morning.
This bus has a Series 60 with B500 auto tranny in it.
No, I have not driven a bus before. It does seem to like to stay in overdrive far too long before downshifting when going up a grade. I would think a modern computerized automatic tranny would downshift as necessary to protect the engine.
The manuals I ordered didn't arrive before I left so I didn't know about bolts to fix a bad clutch. Maybe I'll just do that and skip the Detroit dealer.
My trip is taking far longer than planned due to having to go slow to avoid overheating the engine.
Brian Elfert |
Brian Elfert
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 1:27 am: | |
Another note:
I did take the bus over to Western Branch Diesel in Roanoke, VA to get it looked over before heading out on the road.
They spent four to five hours going over it. They adjusted the front brakes, changed the oil and fuel filters, changed some DDEC settings, and generally checked it over.
They didn't find anything wrong that would prevent driving it home and certainly no cooling issues. A few minor things need doing when I get home.
Western Branch Diesel is a a Detroit dealer. They also have a branch in Canton, OH, but I don't want to drive the extra 100 miles out of way.
Brian Elfert |
John MC9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 1:42 am: | |
Ok!!
"It does seem to like to stay in overdrive far too long
before downshifting when going up a grade. "
Manually keep it in normal driving position, and out of
overdrive for the duration. Once you overheat an engine
that size, it takes quite a while to get it cooled. Doing
70 mph in overdrive uphill, can cost you 40 mph for
quite a few miles, to cool it down.
Your problem may only be you!
If you have it scheduled to be checked at a competent
garage, do it. It's best to play it safe.
We're wishing you good luck and fortune, man! |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 5:47 am: | |
Sounds from here , like a hunk of garbage hose that only destroys the coolant flow intermittantly.
Could be collapsing , could have a torn internal section that flaps part closed.
Could just be a poverty stricken ex charter bus that has a never serviced mostly plugged radiator that is full of green slyme.
FAST FRED |
Brent Coursey (Busboy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 11:03 am: | |
Or it could be as simple as what happened to me...a radiator hose laying on top of the temp sending unit...
-Brent |
mel4104
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 11:43 am: | |
you might like to check all of the exaust parts because if you have even a small leak that hot exaust gas will cause your engine to heat up as it gets traped in the engine compartment and at hi speed it is like having a cutting tourch pionted at the block. this is one thing that a lot of people over look and when they do fix it they have been working on it and do not give the leak credit for being the trouble. |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 4:59 pm: | |
Hello.
Series 60 and B500 are a great combination.
Modern 4 stroke power plant, where the power is lower in the rev range, not at the screaming top.
The B500 is doing its job properly by leaving it in a higher gear longer than the 2-stroke crowd is used to, taking advantage of the pulling power of the motor and getting better fuel economy in the process. No harm will be done to a Series 60 by loading it up lower in the revs, the way the mythology suggests that an older 2 stroke will.
In doing some side by side "testing" with another coach, whether you force the tranny to shift, or leave it to make up its own mind, there is no practical difference in when you reach the top of the mountain. These B500 have the smarts and the power in front of them to take care of you with no more thought than push the button marked D.
The only time I've had trouble with a Series 60 and B500 combination was when the fan clutch was misbehaving....
For instance, climbing Fancy Gap, normally it will pull at 50 mph in 5th gear. When the fan clutch was misbehaving, manually selecting 4th, still at 50mph, the temp came under some control.
Sorry, can't remember the revs associated with these.
Interestingly, my stock equipped MC8 with 8V71 and HT740 in conversion trim (vs full of passengers) climbs the same hill at 44 mph in 3rd.
My suspicions mimic the others: fan clutch, plugged rad inside or out, rad topped up.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Brian Elfert
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 7:59 pm: | |
The Detroit Diesel place in Youngstown couldn't really find anything wrong.
They said the DDEC showed two overheats at 219F. They then took it for a test drive and figured out that the temp gauge is reading about 8 degrees low. The mechanic basically said to drive it and pull over to cool down if the stop engine and check engine lights come on again.
The mechanic checked the electric fan clutch and it seems to grab fine. They did find that the air filter was pretty plugged so I had it replaced for $100.
The temps are staying down fine now that I'm out of the grades in Pennsylvania. I am going to have C & J Bus Repair in Minneapolis check things out when I get home.
Brian Elfert |
Pat Racine
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 10:12 pm: | |
You can also use the MODE button on your Allison. This will take the revs higher before shifting helping you to climb those hills. Same in the city, I prefer the MODE button selected.
Good luck!
Pat |
Doug Wotring
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 10:42 pm: | |
Hopefully you didn't do any significant damage to your engine.
219 is getting close....I think the dash liughts should have come on by that point.
and hopefully everything was reading correctly.
It really doesn't take much to crack a head....which is likely big $$ on a 60.
I would think even with an underperforming fan cluttch with the ambient temps in PA over the weekend under 80 degrees....that there is someething pretty much wrong.
First thing I would do is drain your coolant. Refill it with water and run it around till up to op temp...then drain it again. Do this a few times.....and catch all the water......what is crapping up your cooling sytem will come out....some of it anyways.
then you can make the call on getting your rad core cooked, replaced or rodded |
Doug Wotring
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 11:27 pm: | |
Another possibility.
One gallon of green coolant on top of Orange/red coolant makes a nice snot like material which can easily wreck havoc on a radiator |
Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 11:34 pm: | |
Brian you hit the nail on the HEAD! Take it to C & J ! Tell JD "Busted Knuckle from TN said hello!, & I will be call'n him sometime soon to stock up on some parts as the shop is stay'n busier than it used to be!"
Knuckle |
Phil Dumpster2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 5:21 am: | |
Check to see if you are getting any exhaust gasses in your coolant.
One way to find out is with a cooling system pressure tester. With the engine cold, install it in place of the radiator cap and start the engine. If you start reading pressure before the coolant gets warm then you have a head gasket leaking between a combustion chamber and a cooling system passage.
If you have a clear plastic surge tank, see if there are any bubbles rising in the coolant.
An engine that heats up very quickly under load and cools off rapidly when the load is removed is one classic example of a blown head gasket. The 2000 degree combustion gasses can take an engine running at 190 soaring beyond 210 very quickly. |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 12:46 pm: | |
Phil has a Bingo! |
Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 9:29 pm: | |
Brian did ya make it home? Had a chance to learn any more? Just curious, as I'm sure the rest of the gang is! Let us know. Knuckle |
Brian Elfert
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 12:35 pm: | |
I just made it home literally 15 minutes ago.
Since I was going through Elkhart yesterday during the morning, I went RV surplus shopping. I ended up not leaving RV Surplus Salvage until 5 PM.
219F is the temp that the stop engine and check engine lights come on. The Detroit Diesel dealer said he couldn't make it come on sooner.
The Detroit dealer didn't do real extensive testing that I could see.
I'm not sure if I want to have C & J fix the overheating or leave it at a Detroit Dealer.
Brian Elfert |