| Author |
Message |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.37.92)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 12:40 am: | |
Since getting my bus 5 weeks ago, been tooling up. Got my 110V welder, my air compressor, and my compound miter saw. Compressor and miter saw are rated at 15A, but both want to trip the breaker on my 20A shop circuit when they start up. Welder manual says I can weld 1/8" tubing only if I supply 25A.
OK, so I go buy #8 AWG wire, conduit, and a 30A breaker to add a new branch circuit to the shop. Problem is, 30A receptacles aren't "normal". The only ones I could find at the big orange, Graingers, or a big specialty electrical supply house have special configurations and require a matching plug. Won't accept the "standard" 110V plugs on all my tools.
What to do? Is 20A the max receptacle size you can get that accepts "standard" 110V 3-prong plugs?
Elecrical supply counter guy says "cut off the plug" on the welder and splice on a new 30A plug. Figure that prolly voids the warranty... but will be trying to call the mfr tomorrow to see what they say.
How do people normally handle this?
Thanks for any advice.
John |
jmaxwell (66.42.93.217)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 3:06 am: | |
I would suspect that u have a bad 20a breaker if table top compound miter trips it. Do u have at least #12 wire to and from the breaker? Also, for 30a u only need #10 if u stay under 100ft, but u will run into a problem with plugs for 30 amp, although they are readily available, they will not be of the same config. as 15-20a. There are 30 a twist lock. As for the welder, if it calls for 25a, it should be equipped for 220v use |
DrivingMissLazy (65.207.109.40)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:47 am: | |
I would try replacing the 20 amp breaker with a 25 or 30 amp breaker and see if that solves the problem. It may only be inrush current that is causing the problem. Keep a very close check on the temperature of the cords of the different appliances. You may have to replace the cords with larger size cord.
The largest standard 110 volt outlet is 20 amp. If you cut off the plug and replace it with a 30 amp connector, then the wire on the welder may be too small to carry the 30 amps and could get hot or even cause a fire. Be very very careful in making any of these changes. You may burn down your shop and your bus.
Richard |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.37.92)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 11:20 am: | |
Richard - I think you're right about the surge current. I did try a 30A breaker and it doesn't trip. I'm going to try a slo-blo breaker next. Hopefully this will solve the problem with the miter and compressor. I don't like the idea of keeping a 30A breaker in there as a permanent solution.
As far as the welder, it's not capable of 220V, but the manual says I need 25A at 110V to get maximum service out of it. However, I don't think the stock cord and plug are rated for more than 15 or 20A. If I put in a 30A receptacle and replace the plug, I'll also replace the cord.
Thanks for the suggestions.
John |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (216.67.215.68)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 11:48 am: | |
Guys,
whilst we are on the subject, I have a couple of items, one is a battery charger, that sometimes trip the GFI in my workshop. This doesn't always happen, but does ONLY when I turn it off at the charger timer switch. Reckon there is a small short or could it be current surge or rather, the lack of it that causes it to trip? Thanks.
Peter. |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.37.92)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 4:27 pm: | |
Quick follow-up on my 30A circuit question.
Lincoln said go ahead and cut off the plug and replace it with a 30A plug. Won't void the warranty. This was on a phone call. I've followed up with an e-mail outlining my conversation and asking for confirmation that this is the best approach, and that they won't void my warranty. Letcha know what I hear.
BTW, after the phone call, I checked the power cord on the welder, and it's #14 AWG, which seems barely sufficient. So I'm inclined to take the cover off and see how accessible the wires are, since I might be better off putting in a new cord with #8 or #10 conductors. |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.161.122.53)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 5:24 pm: | |
Check the duty cycle on the welder at it's maximum output with the 25amp input. Leaving the 14ga cord or going to a 12ga cord may be enough if the welder can only weld 1/3 of the time and has to sit 2/3 of the time when using maximum output. Don't exceed the duty cycle or you'll buy another welder in short order.
Jim |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.37.92)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 6:11 pm: | |
Jim, you're right. The duty cycle is 20%. Guess that minimizes the load on the conductors, huh?
Same thinking apply to the outlet? i.e., should I be OK installing a 20A receptacle?
Thanks,
john |
DrivingMissLazy (65.207.109.104)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 9:37 pm: | |
John, I think you would be more than adequately safe to draw 25 amps from a 20 amp outlet for a 20% duty cycly. You still need the 25 or 30 amp breaker though. It is common practice in the electrical industry to oversize a breaker by 20% or more to handle starting or inrush currents.
Peter, GFI's are very sensitive devices and the least amount of difference in the hot and neutral conductors will trip them. Probbably some kind of an inductive kickback is creating the problem of nuisance trips.
Richard |
Mallie (208.165.105.93)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:11 pm: | |
Hello John,,, I have read your post and the others.
Starting amps, can trip a breaker, but so can over loading the tool. It is rated with the smaller cord, and the factory plug will be sufficient. Just wire a new dedicated circuit with a single pole 30 amp breaker and the 10 gage wire, and use a common 120 receptacle. Of course, don't use more than one of these device on the same circuit at the same time.
The 20% duty cycle,, what that means is you can use it 2 minutes out of 10. You will know when it is getting hot,, it will splatter worse. Good luck,, Mallie |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.37.92)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 2:50 am: | |
Thanks for all the good advice. I know what to do now.
Cheers,
John |
Jim Stacy (32.101.44.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 9:40 pm: | |
John,
Don't put a 30 amp breaker in a line set up for 20 amps. It probably has 12 gauge wire, overloaded at 30 amps. The slow blow 20 amp is legal. FWIW
Jim Stacy |
russearline (172.181.204.138)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 10:29 pm: | |
John as you and I discussed, run a separate line to your shop area using #10 wire and a new 30A breaker.
Russ |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.38.1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:49 pm: | |
Here's what I'm doing - putting in a new line with #8 wire (I know I only need #10, but I already bought the #8), a 30A breaker, and 20A receptacles. Another wrinkle -- they don't make receptacles that can handle #8 wire (or even #10, far as I can tell). Another electrical wiz friend (not on the boards) said it's common practice to run a pigtail with #12 wire at the receptacle. Makes sense to me, so that's my plan.
Thanks,
jb |
Roger (205.188.196.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 5:20 am: | |
John, how about running your #8 to a 30 amp outlet, then make a short #12 jumper to another box with a 20 amp outlet. It kills two birds with one stone.
Roger |
JayJAy (207.30.180.17)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 11:52 pm: | |
If you want to stay with a 20A. breaker, then get a "motor-load" type ,which is a slow-blow model to allow for the high inrush current of motors,welders, etc. Cheers...JJ |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.38.122)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 1:03 am: | |
Ahh... knowing the jargon is the key! I asked my electrical supply counterman for a slow-blow breaker and he looked at me like I had two heads. Said he never heard of a slow-blow breaker -- fuse, yes - breaker, no.
Anyway, I've done both. Replaced the old 20A breaker with a new one that seems to work much better (as pointed out by some, it was probably old and tripping below spec). Also put in the new 30A circuit.
Thanks for the advice.
jb |