| Author | Message | ||
| Larry Mackey Rating: N/A |
While doing my homework on oil By-Pass systems I found a very comprehensive article on BioDiesel on the Luber-Finer home page.It is a must read for anyone considering using BioDiesel! Larry | ||
| Bob Wies (Ncbob)
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There has been much discussion lately about this topic on this and other boards. I for one am not going to risk the expensive repair bills which might be associated with using anything other than what the Engineers designed my engine and generator to burn. Considering the initial cost, mechanical repairs plus the cost of conversion and figuring that I might drive just 2000 miles a year at a cost of say..$3.50 per gallon I cannont justify the difference in cost for Bio-Diesel (and all the work and equipment required to produce it) vs. #2 Diesel. It makes me shudder to think that if after all that messing around I had to not only pull my tank to clean it but a set of rebuilt injectors to boot....sorry...color me gone! | ||
| JW Smythe (Jwsmythe)
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Larry, what's the link to the page or article? I'm planning on doing the SVO on my bus. It'll be in a seperate tank that I'll be able to switch back and forth between. Everything looks very good on doing it so far. It seems the biggest things on it are 1) Be sure you really filter it well, which I'll probably be doing overkill on. 2) Preheat the fuel. Some places are indicating that the fuel rails are already taking care of that well enough, if the engine is already warmed up. 3) Legally collect the oil, which is seeming like the hardest part if I'm on the road. I'll have at least a couple good places to collect at, but outside of that, I may be screwed. Still, if I can squeeze an extra 100 gallon tank in, that's up to 1000 miles for free, which will definately cut down on any driving bills. I'm the type of guy who will try things, and tally up any mistakes to experience. If I put the extra tank, filtering, fuel switch valves, etc, etc in, and it doesn't turn out to work for me, well, it's something that didn't work. The whole bus is that. A friend of mine is doing something along those lines with two cars, and has a group in Florida doing others. That reminds me, I need to write to him.  I know Diesels are strong engines, and thrive in adverse circumstances. I used to start an old diesel tractor on WD40, when it refused to start in cold weather. It was 40 years old when we sold it, and I know I abused the crap out of it. It's hour meter never worked, so I have no clue how much we drove it. | ||
| Charles Seaton Rating: N/A |
Bob, Are you confusing bio-diesel with the used cooking oil some are touting for use in diesel vehicles. If you are thinking about the used "grease" and the separate fueling system that has to be installed, I am right with you. For the distance we drive, might as well stick with the real stuff. | ||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
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I agree with Bob & Charles...Most of my trips are long (high milage)..that's what I have a bus for. The way I see it is, bio works great in a commuter car that stays near home so you can find (establish a relationship with businesses with waste oil)and process the waste oil to fill the car up as required, this is near impossible on the road, and for me it is impossible. I don't want to be driving a 40' bus around every other town, to every McD's, to find oil, then look for a place to setup and filter it or what ever is req'd... for what a few hundred bucks on a trip... no thanks Ron | ||
| Dale Fleener (Dale_mc8)
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Ron, you seem to be confusing Bio-Diesel and WVO/SVO systems. The Bio-Diesel is a direct replacement for regular diesel with no extra tanks, etc. needed. It will mix with no problems that I have heard of but might get a little thick in very cold clime's. Dale MC8 | ||
| Dale Fleener (Dale_mc8)
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I posted the above before I read the article recommended by Larry. I just read it and though it hasn't changed MY mind about such, I agree with Larry. It is a MUST read for anyone who wants to be informed about either side of the issue. | ||
| chris dusty (Chris)
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I have been researching this for about 3 yrs now and shortly will be constructing a processing unit for WVO. That is the product at the end of the article that they highly recommend against using. I am suspect of a scientific type article on the website of a for profit company in a related industry. | ||
| DMDave Rating: N/A |
Buried in the back of our local paper today:Cheveron buys stake in bio-diesl co. Chev spent 3.5 million to aquire 22 % of a Galveston Tx that is building a plant to make diesel from veg oil. BioDiesel LP's facility will produce up to 100 million gals of bio a year from soy bean oil. The plant will boost the US bio output by 54%. Also in todays: Raw sugar futures up 8.80 a metric ton on speculation higher energy prices will spur demand for crop based fuels. How come its always buried? | ||
| Kevin Hatch
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I'll have to stick with the good (expensive) regular old diesel. My wife works in the oil industry. They're the ones who put food on the table while I burn diesel traveling around playing music (trying to put food on the table). It's a catch 22 for me. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
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For those of you that are interested, Anchorage has got some WVO conversions in the works. A couple of days ago, there was a big splash in our paper about one of our city trucks being converted to run on MacDonald's waste cooking oil. In both of these cases, the fact that the waste had to be shipped south because they didn't want to landfill it here, increased their interest. The local conversion was said to cost about $1,500 for parts. This included a tank, heater and plumbing. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Kevin Hatch
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Wonder if the COLD will be an issue up there in Alaska? | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
With tax dollars there is never a problem. If you need heat, you just burn up more dollars. | ||
| Kevin Hatch
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LOL! | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
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__. Whoa, guys. We're talking about three different systems here -- 1) Running on "Waste Veg Oil". This is the "take the oil from McDonalds and put it in a separate tank, heat it up and put it into the engine" plan. 2) "Converting the waste oil". In this one, you take the stuff from McDonalds and put it in a tank in your garage. Then you put in NaOH ("lye") to precipitate out the glycerin then add methanol to react the NaOH. What you get out -- if all goes well -- is plain light-ester fuel oil. It's very similar to "dino-diesel"; only problem is that it's a little heavier in weight at ordinary temps and *much* heavier at colder temps. It also "gels" at a higher temp than dino-diesel. Sometimes this causes problems but the big drawback with this stuff is if the chemical part goes wrong. If you don't get all the glycerin out it's left in as a soapy mess; you also have to be careful to get any water out of the resulting fuel. Are you feelin' lucky?????? 3) Taking raw oil (such as from soybeans) and processing it in a commercial factory setting with competent chemical controls. The result is a fuel very much like #2 -- it has the same viscosity problems but it's much less likely to have the chemical contamination -- NOTE: not "never has contamination problems" but is less likely too than the "homebrewed stuff". __. Straight "WVO - Waste Veg Oil" seems to go through some engines/fuel systems OK. In other engines, it doesn't work well with injectors and results in bad spray patterns; this sometimes causes such bad combustion that the engine is damaged by ash/soot or raw fuel pooling in the combustion chambers. Not unknown is raw fuel washing the oil off cylinder bores resulting in failed rings or siezed/broken pistons. __. Problems with #2 & 3 are usually related to the viscosity problems but these light ester fuels also are pretty good detergent agents and they've been known to clean old deposits from fuel systems and clog filters, pumps or injectors. __. As an old econ professor used to say, "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". BH, NC USA (Absolutely NO connection to any industrial company or commercial group.) | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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No Free Lunch...factor in the cost of planting, cultivating, harvesting and getting beans to market and the only way it's viable is backing by the good old Taxpayers buck. It's not economical at all, just another way for Big Oil and Big Business to rape the public. ...JJ | ||
| Gary Carter Rating: N/A |
Bio diesel has the potential to be a positive BTU fuel. Means more BTU out than put in to obtain it. Ethonal from corn on the other hand is not yet close to being a positive BTU fuel. But, it looks like Brazil ia making positive fuel out of sugar cane. It is providing 8 BTUs for every BTU put into it. Another huge problem is if we devote the acrage needed to provide the fuel needed our vehicle will be fed, but leaving us without food. | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
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Hmmm, I can just hear some guy telling his old lady: "but Hon, we can still take a vacation, and you said you need to loose weight anyway"! Har! ...JJ Do the Brazilians burn the 'cane fields like everyone else? | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
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I would agree that Bio-diesel has quite a bit of potential for creating an alternative to dino-diesel. My only concern is how much dino-diesel is the farmer going to use to create the bio-diesel? The numbers I have heard indicate it takes 5/4 gallons of dino-diesel to make one gallon of bio-diesel. Hopefully the technology will catch up and make it a net gain and not a net loss. Using WVO as an alternative fuel source is an elegant way to use what has been in the past a headache for every user of a deep fat fryer. But the potential for wide spread use will be determined by the supply. Even now one of the locally owned burger chains is in the process of setting up each of their stores with an easily accessed 24/7 pump out for their WVO. They are going to be "leasing" the vegetable oil and the WVO will be going back to the owner for re-use. In other words, the days of free WVO is fast coming to an end. Now if you want to talk about some really way out there fuel sources go to www.eagle-research.com/ and check out Brown's Gas. One has to wonder if the claims are for real or not. If the claims are for real the potential would seem to be fantastic. The technology to make our dependence on foreign oil is out there but some of the really way out there stuff has yet to make it to the mainstream. One has to wonder if the oil companies and their lust for obscene profits are getting in the way of bringing the way out there technology into the mainstream. In any case, those are my thoughts on the subject. Mark O. |