| Author |
Message |
Greg Peterson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 10:09 pm: | |
I finally was able to obtain a Field Service Data Book for the Detroit Engines. This is a wonderful thing that has all the technical info on the two stroke engines. All the injector and horsepower configuration are listed with the turbo and other adjustments required. Exhaust temperature; exhaust backpressure, and manifold pressure limits are also given for these engines. Minimum fuel line requirements and air system requirements are listed.
This is really a design engineering guidebook for installing the engine into any application.
It shows you how to get 375hp from a 6v-71T. I see how Fred Hobe’s 8v-71ta gets about 420 hp at 2200 rpm with N80 injectors. He could get 520hp at 2300 rpm with N95 injectors and a TV-8513 turbo.
The 8v-92TA can do 560hp at 2100 rpm with M15 injectors. Also interesting is some of the industrial 8v-92 engines were rated at 2300 rpm.
Good old book with way more info than the service manual. |
Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 10:49 pm: | |
Where in the world did you find one? I had one years ago after I went through the DD school in Detroit...but many cities and a few wives....well.
I'd love to have one for the 71 Series.
Info? Do they still have a red cover?
NCbob |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 1:07 am: | |
Yes it would be wounderful if some day there was a repository of some sort attached to this excelent resorce (BNO's BBS) were we could place safe "copies" of these types of data in "public storage" for posterity much like a museum resource or a library and not infringe on copy right intent. (and of course some corresponding assistance to help Ian with yet more "work" do to for the conversion community) |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 1:47 am: | |
Your book sounds awesome, Greg.
When you get a chance, see what the DD data gurus think of my current "smokemaker":
'78 8v-71 rebuilt with N65 brown-tags & standard timing
If there is any add'l. HP from the injectors, I swear it's all going out the tailpipe! At least at my altitude.
Brian Brown
Longmont, CO
4108-216 w/ V730 |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 5:31 am: | |
Perhaps the book contains an explanation of "Brown tag injectors" green tag , white tag ect?
Have seen these terms for decades , but no one has had a good explanation for the terms.
FAST FRED |
Greg Peterson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 8:43 pm: | |
I will try and answer some of the questions.
I found out about the book from one of the “ old guys” at DD. He said the book was out of publication and that it would be difficult to get a hold of the information. I started watching ebay for it and was lucky enough to get it for 1/3 of the price I would have actually bid for it. Probably not too many people are aware of this book and don’t know how valuable it is for a DD engine. The book has a white cover and has many pages. It was printed in 1995 and has data on the 53,71,92,149,8.2l,S40, S50, and S60 engines.
The 8v-71N with N65 injectors is rated at 283 or 294 or 304 HP at 2100 rpm depending on what cam is in the engine. I think this must be the old 318 hp rating you always hear about. In the whole list I do not see a 318hp rating anywhere. Maybe it is how they measure the horsepower.
I do notice that there does not seem to be any bigger injectors listed then N65 for the 8v-71N engines. The bigger injectors are all used with turbo charged engines. The coach engines had N60 or N55 injectors. This must be the biggest injector an 8v-71n can take and get enough air to burn the fuel. At high altitude the N65 injector would probably smoke more. The N60 injector would put you at 285hp.
Check your air box pressure minimum is 5.0 in.Hg at 2100 rpm. Min exhaust pipe diameter is 4” with 3.0 in, Hg max exhaust backpressure.
Here is interesting thing the average oil consumption in quarts at 10 hours of operation. The 8v-71n is 1.1 quarts at 1400 rpm and goes up to 2.2 quarts at 2100 rpm. The 8v-92 is 0.8 quarts at 1400rpm and goes up to 1.8 quarts at 2100 rpm. Some how they made the 92 series use less oil?
For FF there is no mention that I can find about the color bands. The N65 injector is listed with an assembly part # of 5228900. The book shows that the calibration can be from 64 to 69. I am guessing the band may grade this range into boxes to allow you to get a closer matched set of injectors. This is just a guess.
One cool thing I found out from the book is that my 1989 8v-92 engine was only built with a fuel modulator not a rack delay. You may have seen from other post how slow a rack delay is and how superior the fuel modulator is at controlling smoke but giving good throttle response. I think my engines fuel modulator is probably just misadjusted. The book shows the proper way to calibrate it. This kind of info is priceless to me but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My wife got home before I did and she said “ you got some big stupid book in the mail” |
Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 9:37 pm: | |
Great info, Greg. Thanks for taking time to do the research and type out the data. And for buying that "big stupid book" in the first place. *grin* Sounds pretty darn handy... and not stupid at all.
I'm tired of the smoke and heat from the N65's, so I'm saving my pennies to pay for some new N60's and having the racks re-run. When I read my DD Service Manual, it sounds well beyond my abilities to "shade tree" something like that.
Regards,
Brian Brown
Longmont, CO
4108-216 w/ V730 |
Dallas Farnworth (Dal300)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 10:24 pm: | |
I have an older copy of the DDFSM that lists the 8V71N with N65's like Greg says,
But the 8V71 listsinjectors all the way up to 70's. with the N70's the HP rating is 275@1800, 298@2000, 307@2100 and 321@2300.
Dallas |
Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 2:26 pm: | |
I got two of the Field Service Data Books on ebay some time ago and gave one of the away. I was told they were for road service as they are pretty small but thick.
One problem is that they have many, many change sheets so I have no way of really knowing if the book is up to date. But, my 671 is not exactly new so I guess it isn't much of a problem. |
Geoff (Geoff)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:31 pm: | |
My Field Service Data book is in a small ring binder, around 6-7" in size, that went out of print back in the '80s. I bought it when I worked for DD and I was supposed to get free lifetime updates mailed to me. That only lasted a couple of years, then I had to ask for them, then they came out with a new and bigger book, and cut me off.
BTW, you get 318HP w/N65 injectors by turning the rpms up to 2500 no load, 2300 full load. The only highway vehicles that could do this as stock were firetrucks. All the truckers that used to say they had a '318' actually only had 304HP. Unless they put bigger injectors in, and they used to do that all the time-- there were no smoke tickets back then.
--Geoff |