| Author |
Message |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 1:06 pm: | |
Did the early MCI MC 102 C3 ever come factory with MUI injected 2 strokes? I know that some of the 102 A3 & A2 did. |
Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 5:34 pm: | |
Yes Truthhunter I know of a company who has quite a few C3's and none of them are DDEC, they were puzzled that my '89 Setra was a DDEC 8V92! As they didn't realize it was an option that early as far as I can tell MCI didn't allow/offer DDEC's until 92-93 (when Setra was already using the 60 series) and in late '93-95 phased in the 60 series (I recently saw a 94 DL3 with a DDEC 8V92 in it and I've seen some 93 C3's with just plain ol' 8V92TA's in 'm I may not be 100% correct on this but this is what I've actually had my hands and eyes on not read in a book ! BK |
Greg Peterson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 7:41 pm: | |
All my DD manuals show the last year for EPA automotive certified MUI 8v-92 was 1989. The books list everything after 1989 as DDEC. I am not saying your wrong BK but just informing you of what “ DA Book Says”.
I got one of the last MUI 8v-92 that was rated at 400hp. The over 400 hp certified engines were DDEC in 1989.
MCI in Chicago has a 1992 102C3 for sale with a 3176 CAT (325 hp) and a B500 trans.
Listed at $31,500. Is the 3176 any good and can the HP be increased? The B500 would be real sweet.
My old 8v-92ta with a turbo A/R of 1.39 and M15 injectors will put out 560 hp.
I would have to pretend it is a bus from the seventies in order to meet the EPA regulations. I might also need a fire hose mister or one of those famous electric fans to help cool the engine. |
Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 8:01 pm: | |
MCI may have had that many engines already bought up they had to use before switching or something, I could be wrong but I've personally seen '92 & '93 model MCI's with non DDEC as well as a couple with DDEC's (or previous owners could've replaced a blown DDEC with a non DDEC for simplicity and ease of availability for used engines! I only stated what I've seen. Not saying it's gospel, just what I've seen! EPA regulations? Ahh man that bus is so old it's what Noah used when they got of the ARC! LOL! That's what I'd tell'm! BK |
truthhunter@shaw.ca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 9:01 pm: | |
I now there out there as I have viewed a few while cyber"window" shopping. Just not sure if they came from the factory that way. My guessing was just as you have said Bk.
Perhaps this question is going to require some up close inspections for signs of modifications. |
Greg Peterson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 9:53 pm: | |
Truthhunter are you trying to find one without a DDEC? I wish my 8v-92ta were a DDEC.
I think the smoke control and overall performance at the high horsepower ratings would be much better.
Upgrading to high HP is a little more difficult with a DDEC. You need to change the injectors and probably the computer program. The DD guys probably will not like to do this because of EPA liability.
Here is the trick. You find a big buck Marathon with a DDEC 8v-92ta rated at 500hp. They seemed to put the high HP rating in these buses. Get the Serial # off that engine. Then take your engine computer off the bus and to the DD dealer and have them reprogram it to that S/N.
They may want to test your old computer so you need to tell them that BK was using a 1000 amp welder on your bus and burned it out beyond recognition. They will believe this because they have been trained like a dog to tell everyone to not weld on the bus with the elect. Hooked up. Tell them that the computer you brought in is a used one from a bone yard. Now you will have the 500hp program in it.
This will work and I will not say how I know it will work or condone this activity in any way. I will disavow all knowledge of your actions.
Oh ……BK no offense for using you as the guy welding on the bus in this example. Substitute any friend or foe for this example. |
JR
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 10:14 pm: | |
DDEC 1 was used first in 87 MC9s by NJT, and likely other "clean air" metropolitan bus systems.
DDEC 1 was around for two years and was replaced by DDEC II. As long as the wiring isn't gnawed up by mechanics that don't have a clue, the units are dependable.
DDECs are cool ideas for the electronically savvy folk...a nightmare for those who don't do wires.
They are a little more economical, much easier to drive with the "fly be wire" throttle, and the ATEC trans shifts in a more logical fashion...the trans communicates with the DDEC and makes a few intelligent decisions.
A few folk don't even realize that their coach is a DDEC controlled unit. As already stated, 89 was the last year for highway MUIs. They are still being supported for export and military use.
Bumping up the HP on a DDEC is doable as long as the program was used in highway equipment. A DDEC 1 is too easy to increae the HP. An EEPROM can be changed out. No other mods necessary. A DDEC II and up must be reprogrammed by a DD dealer. They'll do it, but you'll pay a buck per HP, starting at zero. Most DDEC injectors are capable of injecting much more fuel than factory settings would indicate. MUI HP upgrades may require larger injectors. Depending on the intended use of the coach, both MUIs and DDECs may be way down on HP if used in transit service (NJTs). Most 6V92TAs used for highway were around 300 to 330 HP. 8V92TAs started about 350 HP and could make upwards of 500 HP if it could be cooled. Buses ran lower HP settings than trucks with similar engines.
JR |
Bryce Gaston (Busted_knuckle)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 10:31 pm: | |
Hey Greg no problem use my name all ya want! I love my 550HP DDECII 8V92! Vrrm Vrrmm Gone! Dad says I'm probably the only bus that's been pulled over for speeding up Mont Eagle in a fully loaded bus for runnin 60-65 MPH all the way up in the left lane pass'n 4 wheelers in the right lane obeying the 55 MPH speedlimit! "Hey if they hadn't been hogging the right lane officer I'd stayed over there but the cars were not going as fast as I was!" He didn't give me a ticket just scolded me for about 5 minutes while waiting on my MVR to come back then let me go and called the owner on me!LOL! (Dad) Killed him for a week waiting for me to mention it before he finally asked If I had somethin to tell him! About my trip to FL? LOL! That's why they've nicknamed my Setra "the Hotrod!" BK |
Greg Peterson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 11:23 pm: | |
Hey BK with 550 HP somebody might want to get your engine S/N.
I almost got all the parts for my MUI 8v-92 to go to 475hp. I am not going to race you but you might want me in the back for a "smoke screen". |
Ray Jensen
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 12:53 am: | |
I have a 1990 MCI 102 C3, It is factory stock and has DDEC II 8v92 and a electronic controled Allison trany, |
niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 2:12 am: | |
BK - why so slow? - I usually do Mont Eagle at 70-75 - you just need to wind your turbo up before that sharp right just before the climb - move over your slowin me down - Niles |