| Author | Message | ||
| Mark & Michele Blake (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.34.231.150 Rating: N/A |
Our 1964 PD4106 bus ran fine before losing a starter bolt; it’s been sitting for a number of months now. Michele and I have been working leisurely on the bus since last week, trying to start it. We have now installed two batteries both fully charged to 1100 CCA each. Typically when we are starting the bus we would set the start controls in the engine compartment to normal, turn the ignition dial to the night (or day) position (at which time you will hear the low air alarm buzzer and see exterior lights), toggle the start switch from normal to the start position and then listen for the engine to start. This afternoon we heard the buzzer and saw exterior lights as normal, but the bus did not start or even crank when the start switch was toggled to the start position. We used a technique we gained from a previous PD4106 where we were able to get the engine to crank by activating a relay in the rear electrical panel. The motor turned several times while we were doing this but it never start. We checked for fuel & oil; fuel filters, power cables, battery connections and all appeared to be ok. Even though the temperature was in the high 60s; we also applied starter fluid twice and still couldn’t get it to start. At one point Michele suggested holding the rear start switch in the down (start) position, while activating the relay. We did this and the engine ran about three cycles on it’s own as if it had started, but as the rear start switch was released back to the middle position (off) the motor stopped. Needless to say we tried so many times that the batteries were getting weaker, so we decided to call it a day. We are not sure what to think of all of this or what to do next. We certainly will not quit. As usual we are confident that turning to BNO to find help is the right decision at least at this point. We are looking forward to all your comments, tips and advise; be them positive or negative all are encouraged. Thanks in advance! Pics of start controls à http://www.geocities.com/busnut_pd4106/4106StarterProblem/index.html | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 337 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.226.78.98 Rating: N/A |
fuel solenoid...the one that kills the bus when you turn the key off,the starter is a very wonderful thing,but,overuse,is very bad,they cost 400 to rebuild,5 second use followed by 15 t0 20 second rest, if you ran two batterys down with the starter,you abused the starter. The detroit engine hates cold,you did not say how cold it got the night before,that's how cold the engine block is,the ol' two cycle will always love you if you plug in the block heater about 3 or 4 hours before you wake her up. (Message edited by bob greenwood on November 12, 2006) (Message edited by bob greenwood on November 12, 2006) (Message edited by bob greenwood on November 12, 2006) | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 390 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 76.186.181.86 Rating: N/A |
Mark, make SURE that the stop cylinder isn't holding the rack in the stop position. I'm attaching a shot of my old 4106's governor. The arrows show the stop cylinder and rack lever. The cylinder should NOT be extended and the rack lever needs to be up, not down. I suspect a wiring problem might be causing the stop cylinder circuit not to engage. It will never start with the rack shut. It's also good to know where the rack shutoff is in case you lose air and need to kill the DD. Take it easy on the starter AND the start fluid. I had to remove the starter on my 4108 yesterday. It was NOT fun! Doing rings would be even worse. BTW, did you replace the starter bolt? HTH, Brian Brown 4108-216 w/ V730 Longmont, CO presently stuck in Dallas, TX  | ||
| TOM SHALLOW (Tvdad)
Registered Member Username: Tvdad Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.31.82.33 Rating: N/A |
MARK GIVE ME A CALL 603-329-5399 I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM I'LL EXPLAIN WHAT TO DO | ||
| Sammy (Sammy)
Registered Member Username: Sammy Post Number: 62 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.213.178 Rating: N/A |
Mark, check the emergency shut off,or "dump".Might have been "tripped" accidentally. This large electric solenoid controls a metal "flap" or "door" under the air intake housing , on top of the blower.You'll see long shaft on this solenoid and it connects to a piece of linkage that will hold the blower air intake door in the open position (normally).You can manually reset this piece of linkage. Look at the great picture Brian has posted, it's the solenoid mounted on the air intake housing - electrically operated. Good luck. Sammy | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 338 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.227.2.15 Rating: N/A |
correct.very good thought,I forgot about the emergency kill flap,that could be the reason either had no effect,please do not use either | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1105 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.163.170 Rating: N/A |
Either ether, eh? They're, their, there. . . To, too, too. . . Read, read. . . Lead, lead. . . Huked on fonics wurked fur me. . . Dontcha just luv the English language!  | ||
| Mark & Michele Blake (Busnut_pd4106)
Registered Member Username: Busnut_pd4106 Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.34.235.193 Rating: N/A |
Michele and I both agreed that we did not abused the starter, but we will use the 5 sec use 20 sec rest method next time and every time. Only a small amount of starter fluid was applied and only twice. Brian we did replaced the starter bolt, and I observed the stop cylinder fully extended and the rack lever in the down position. I basically left them alone. Sammy we will check the emergency shut off, I believe I know the switch you are describing. Tom I'll give you a call before we try again. The temperature here in GA should be OK in the upper 50s possibly in the low 60s. We may try again tomorrow. Thanks again to everyone for all the tips and advise. | ||
| Brian Brown (Blue_velvet)
Registered Member Username: Blue_velvet Post Number: 391 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 76.186.181.86 Rating: |
Mark, the RUN position for the rack is the stop cylinder IN and the rack UP. If you observed it OUT and DOWN, then that's the no fuel position. When you rotate to the DAY or NIGHT position on the front knob, you should hear a bit of air escape (if there's any in the tanks) and the cylinder retract. Again, she won't start in the no fuel position. For the emergency flapper, look for a tab where the wire hooks into it near the bottom left side of the blower as you're facing it. This is not as obvious, but it should also be UP and not down. Trigger it yourself manually (it's got a little detent), to make sure of this. Better yet, pull the bolts around the circular rubber air boot (just above the words GMC on your DD) and look down into the blower. You can see the flapper there. You'll also be able to inspect your blower screen for debris (bird nests, sticks, etc.). HTH, Brian (Message edited by blue_velvet on November 14, 2006) |
