| Author |
Message |
Dave Hartshorne (Yeeolde48)
Registered Member
Username: Yeeolde48
Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 24.209.222.82
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 10:46 pm: | |
Hi all, I expect this has been asked before but could not come up with anything in the archives. Can anyone recommend the best method to store bus batteries over the winter. I have both the bus and house batteries removed and at the house in the garage. Should I keep a steady charge on them, check them and charge every month or so, or? I have charged the house batteries with no problem, but having trouble getting a full charge on the 8D's. All cells check the same with hydrometer, but can not get the charge up where it should be. Batteries appear to charge fine in the bus, but loose charge over a couple of weeks even when the disconnect is thrown. Appreciate any ideas, especialy if I need to replace the 8D's, want to make sure I maintain the new ones correctly.
Cheers, Dave
PD4501-304 |
Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member
Username: Oonrahnjay
Post Number: 123
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 69.143.43.3
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 10:57 pm: | |
I can't add a lot, but maybe others can. I was once having problems storing a couple of batteries and an experienced mechanic saw me put them down on a concrete floor. He told me that that was what my problem was - that that would draw the charge from the batteries. I *knew* that this was false but to humor him, I got the batteries up and on a rack. To my surprize, batteries that replaced ones that lost charge and sulfated up in 4-6 weeks (even with trickle charging) would go for months on only an occasional trickle charge and would then take a full charge quickly and then run fine for the warm season following.
Everything I know tells me that this can't work (at least I can come up with no electrical or mechanical explanation for this) but I've seen it.
Maybe my experience was too few data points and there were other uncontrolled factors but I was amazed at the difference. |
Dave Hartshorne (Yeeolde48)
Registered Member
Username: Yeeolde48
Post Number: 54
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 24.209.222.82
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 11:28 pm: | |
Hi Bruce, I was told the same, also not sure why, but I have the batteries stored on a wooden rack off the floor. Thanks for the post.
Dave
PD4501-304 |
Arnold J Molloy (Ayjay)
Registered Member
Username: Ayjay
Post Number: 42
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 151.203.103.166
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 12:01 am: | |
Hi:
I believe that battery myth was true back in the days when battery cases were made of a bakelite materiel, not plastic like todays batteries. and there was weepage (sp) to the concrete
I've stored modern batteries on concrete, wood and macadam and found no difference.As long as they are fully charged, tops are kept clean and free of moisture they should retain almost all of their charge over the winter. there is some self-discharge, but it should be minimal.
AyJay |
FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member
Username: Fast_fred
Post Number: 34
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 4.235.205.26
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 6:01 am: | |
They could be shot , or simply need an equalizing charge.
If there much over 4 -5 years old shot is best chance.
You may be able to borrow a GOOD (about $300) battery checker that will tell you.
FAST FRED |
Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member
Username: Boomer
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 12.180.53.193
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 1:07 pm: | |
You should never store batteries on the floor. At least place them on wood or rubber matting, if not on a rack. You may be able to purchase some electrolyte and add to the cells and extend the life of the battery some. Also, if you do not have a battery equalizer on your coach, it is a good idea to rotate battery positions once in a while. |
James Smith (Tomcat)
Registered Member
Username: Tomcat
Post Number: 29
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 3:43 pm: | |
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm#concrete
Jay
87 SaftLiner |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1755
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.108.82.163
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 4:14 pm: | |
What a great link. Everybody should save this.
The home page is:
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/index.htm
Thanks Jay.
Richard |
Ray Lala (Rayshound)
Registered Member
Username: Rayshound
Post Number: 80
Registered: 8-2003
Posted From: 68.201.216.135
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 8:30 pm: | |
I actually watched earlier this year on myth busters the same question. Answer was just a myth. It seems back a long long time ago when the case was made of wood and the cells were in jars the battery would drain down if on the floor. The modern day battery cases made out of plastic it makes no difference according to the show. Ray |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member
Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 126
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 66.217.107.46
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 9:27 pm: | |
Jay's "myth-busting" link said clearly:
"Large differences in temperature could cause electrolyte
stratification within very large batteries (>250 AH) which
could accelerate it's internal "leakage" or self-discharge
if the battery is sitting on an extremely cold concrete,
stone or steel floor in a warm room, boat or submarine."
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm#concrete
A wooden pallet is so damned much cheaper than an 8D, ehh? |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member
Username: Pvcces
Post Number: 1020
Registered: 5-2001
Posted From: 65.74.65.54
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 10:47 pm: | |
Dave, what you report about your batteries makes them candidates for a desulfator. The desulfator will bring up the hydometer levels when successful.
To be a candidate, the cells need to be fairly uniform for a good recovery. A single desulfater costing around $50 to $75 should take care of both batteries. It takes several weeks for them to do their work.
If you do search on eBay, using only the word "desulfator", you will find some to look at.
If you should buy on eBay, I recommend that you try to buy from people with greater than 99% feedback rating and pay by credit card.
Many desulfators use the 555 stamper IC, so the behavior is pretty similar. They're really not very expensive for the good that they do.
You really should run down the cause of your battery discharge; it's very damaging to lead acid batteries to have a chronic undercharge condition.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member
Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 384
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 4.90.5.52
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 5:42 am: | |
YES BUT........
if the batterys are 5 years old...they are just OLD batterys,that need to be replaced,no need to waste 50 on something you are going to throw away anyway.
My 'next time'.the 8D's will be replaced with 4 car batterys |
Dave Hartshorne (Yeeolde48)
Registered Member
Username: Yeeolde48
Post Number: 55
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 192.88.212.43
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 9:44 am: | |
Thanks for all the posts guys, these are over 5 years old so most likely are shot. I will research the desulfators as I am interested in what they do.
Cheers,
Dave |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1757
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.108.82.163
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 10:13 am: | |
Several people have reported a change to group 31's successfully. They have a better warranty and are a lot easier to handle than the 8-D,s. I changed from two 8-D to three group 31 and never had any starting problems even in below freezing temperatures.
Richard |
Steven D. Braud (Steve77amg)
Registered Member
Username: Steve77amg
Post Number: 40
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.144.4.182
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:43 am: | |
Richard Bowyer, Can you be more specific about the batteries you use ie: cca, a/h, weight, cost, brand. I need to replace my two 8d's as they have died. Thanks, Steve |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1758
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.108.82.163
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 1:17 pm: | |
Steve, I do not recall the specific details. I probably got them from Sams club. Suggest you buy the highest rating you can get in the Group 31 size case. As I recall, generally three group 31's, in parallel, will equal or exceed two 8-D's in parallel, For 12 volt systems. For a 24 volt system you would probably have to use four. Also, the warranty on Group 31's is generally much better than is available on the 8-D's.
Richard
(Message edited by drivingmisslazy on November 28, 2006) |
joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member
Username: Joemc7ab
Post Number: 51
Registered: 6-2004
Posted From: 66.38.159.33
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:54 pm: | |
Tom
I looked on the e place and they had about a dozen different ones available. Are you or anyone else familiar with any of those, to be able to give a recommendation? Or would it be a crapshoot? I recall that Jerry Liebler had great succes with a home made one, but scrounging the parts would probably cost as much or more.
In order to minimize sulfating , I bought two battery maintainers for the start batts made by Schumacher. I connected it to a new fresh car batt and it cycles on for about four seconds from 12.9 to 13.9 volts and then repeats the proces about every 3 to 4 minutes. I also Looked at a maintainer that provides a fixed 13.2 volt output which is ofcourse the float voltage for wetcell batts. I have the option to switch if I want to, and am wondering what results any boardmembers may have had . |
joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member
Username: Joemc7ab
Post Number: 54
Registered: 6-2004
Posted From: 66.38.159.33
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 6:55 pm: | |
Had a second look at maintainer I bought yesterday. Not overly impressed. The instruction sheet has the charge indicator opposite from what it actually does. I found that, after putting an Amp meter on it because I was curious what the charge current would be. The sizing of this one might also be too small. According to Wm Darden the output should be more than 1% of the AmpHour capacity of the battery, which for an 8D makes it about 2.1 to 2.5 amps. So tomorrow we will checkout the other one. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member
Username: Pvcces
Post Number: 1021
Registered: 5-2001
Posted From: 65.74.65.54
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:14 pm: | |
Joe, we are currently using Solargizer, Battery Life Saver and Sulfa-Tak units. They all seem to work.
The Sulfa-Taks make quite a bit of interference in the AM band, but I haven't noticed that with the others.
One reason that I said to try to buy from someone with a feedback of more than 99% was that if you have trouble with something you buy that is not working, you often can return it, unless the ad says otherwise.
We returned one unit to the seller of Battery Life Saver and got a replacement, no problem. He just told us that we ordered the wrong one for what we needed and apologized for not being clearer in his ad.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska |
joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member
Username: Joemc7ab
Post Number: 55
Registered: 6-2004
Posted From: 66.38.159.33
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 12:32 am: | |
Tom
I exchanged the battery maintainer, and the new one works the way it should. Also ordered the Sulfa-Tak from the manufacturer in Ontario.
Joe. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member
Username: Pvcces
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 5-2001
Posted From: 65.74.65.54
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 8:43 pm: | |
Hi, Joe.
I'm glad you got set up; these units seem like snake oil when you meet them, but I've had a number of very valuable saves with them.
Good luck with your new units.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska |