| Author | Message | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.107) Rating: N/A |
Lots of folks are always looking to burn more fuel , to go that tiny bit faster up the hills. Turbocharging is one answer , but requires a complete rebilld. Propane injection works , but may cost the lower end, or overheating and a cracked head replacement. SO heres a "modest proposal" build a PRT. A PRT is a Power Recovery Turbine that does not pump air , it pumps power back into the engine. On 3350's there were 3 at 150 HP each , that added some power all the time. So its a 50 year old proven tech. All it would take {he said} is your exhaust hooked to a big , say 50HP worth of turbine, a reduction gearset , bolt on to one of the power pads on the DD. The old angle drive that used to power the air cond on GM's 06 and newer should work. A belt can handle 10 HP so a 4 shive pulley will work to add the power to other engines. free power? At least it shouldnt add much to the fuel bill, an extra 50 hp from engine hop up would cost an extra 3 gal per hour . Who will be the first on the block? FAST FRED | ||
| Oaepalmer (Oaepalmer) (208.164.102.152)
Rating: N/A |
Between you and my wife, like I need another OPTION..! She wants to explore the LNG power, because the transit buses here use it and they "smell sweet", plus she is smart enough to know that gasious(?)fueled engines are cleaner inside and run longer w/o problems. THEN she read an article about some Prof in NH who collects and distills vegetable oils from resturants, tosses in a couple of Newt eyes...and PRESTO fuel for his Dodge diesel PU and his wifes Rabbitt. The guy sez the exhaust smells like french fries or doughnuts depending on the source! She wants to know why we have to smell like a Kenworth for money when we could smell like Doughnuts for free?.....(women and logic, it a good thing they don't have ego's) I have to resort to the "don't tinker with stable operation" rule, whose transparency equals chicken soup in OK in the 30's. I can see us tootling down the concrete ribbon, smelling like WAFFLEHOUSE, our little vege-still on the trailer behind the bus pumping fuel into the tank as we roll on into the night followed by a thousand Homer Simpsons, all of them with fixed eyes and chanting..DOUGHNUTS MMMMM DOUGHNUTS MMMMM DOUGHNUTS MMMMM Back to reality....I like your idea Fred...but hers smells better and is cheaper...free HP!!  | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A |
OaePalmer - Then don't let her visit this website: http://www.veggievan.com Might end up smellin' like Mickey D's. . . ROFL RJ | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A |
FF - Let me see if I understand the concept of a PRT: Exhaust gases routed thru a turbine housing, conceptually similar to the exhaust side of a turbocharger. Instead of turbine attached to another fan to pump air, it's attached to a reduction gearbox. Reduction gearbox is bolted onto the DD near the current A/C PTO, with output lined up. Belts connect the two. As exhaust gas temp climbs, turbine spins faster, overcoming idling reduction gearbox being driven by PTO/belts. As gearbox is now being driven by turbine, rather than belts, it starts reversing the power flow back into the engine thru the PTO, rather than out, thus imparting additional HP into the crankshaft and thereby the rest of the powertrain. Conceptually, is this pretty close? RJ | ||
| Scott WHitney (24.205.239.26) Rating: N/A |
It is an interesting idea. However, I would think there would be some difficult hurdles to overcome. The first that comes to mind is the friction introduced in the gear box in order to get the turbo speed down to engine-accessory-drive speed. The other question is how linear the turbo speed is compared to engine RPM. In other words would a fixed gear ratio work so that the turbo was always contributing to engine output rather than being a defecit. Possibly some sort of variable pully size could adjust gearing based on RPM. But again, I wonder if friction introduced would outweigh the power gained. It is an interesting idea, though. What I would like to see is a device that can use the waste heat blown out the exhaust, too. I wonder if some sort of turbo/heat exchanger could somehow recover some energy. The other thing that occurs to me is that turbos help an engine run better at high altitude as well as adding HP, so they might be just better suited as a normal turbo rather than trying to recapture rotory energy. Scott | ||
| CoryDanes RTSII NE/IL (4.17.253.122) Rating: N/A |
OH FF How DO you come up with these things? Well I have my hands full just trying to get the coach conversion underway much less trying to take back power lost from the engine and reapplying by the PTO. * Hmm the PTO, that is a ratio'd output by the trany, how would that work to put it back? You sure it would let you go the other way? As I said, I just discovered I had to go with ONE combined black/grey tank instead of the single grey and black tanks in order to make things work. Hmm Recouping HP, I will thankfully standby and watch this one. Just too darn much to do in the conversion itself. * BUT you know, going back to the cooking oil for fuel theme, if you went merrily down the road smelling like Dunk'n Dounuts, you'd have a parade of robust cops following you where ever you go, like a private escort but they are really trying to get to the dounuts. LOLOLOL cd | ||
| Jayjay (207.30.115.199) Rating: N/A |
OH MY GOD,NOT AGAIN!!! Let's not open up this stupid rapeseed oil fuel mess again. Here are a few reasons why not: 1)It requires a Federally licensed still. 2)EPA approved storage areas for rapeseed oil. 3)It's the diesel equivalent of gasohol, with all the fuel-system problems of corrosion and rubber break-down. 4)Byproducts of the distillation process are caustic. (where you gonna' dump it)? 5)Lower hosepower from engines. 6)Most restaurants recycle their oil, not sell it. 7)How much can you take with you on a trip. 8)Truck/Trailer/Insurance/CDL to deliver it to your still. 9)Not cost efficient unless the oil is free. Yes I know, several cities have their transit buses on it, but that is because the Fed (you and me)paid for the special buses. Stainless fuel tanks, special storage facilities, shorter engine life. Talk to the folks in Cincinnati,OH for the straight scoop.I can go on and on but won't, try Fusion, or Hydrogen or a windmill,or something else that's more practical. Cheers...JJ | ||
| TonyW (152.163.206.209) Rating: N/A |
"A Modest Proposal" as I recall was authored by Jonathon Swift (Gullivor's Travalls). He proposed to provide a small stipend to poor Irish women in return for provideing "fat 6 yr olds" for English tables. He worked out the math as to solve all the social/economic problems of the day by simply adopting cannibalism. Swift wrote satire as does sometimes FF. FF owns a bus. Swift got busted(for his proposal).The words "fast"and"swift both mean rapid(transit?). My guess is this: They are the same person!With an English bounty on his head,Jonathon Swift aka FF has been living in Florida for over 250 years! This would also explain FF's love of sail and adversion to electricty: nogistalgia!It also accounts for FF's vast knowledge base:W/ pals like Issac Newton to shoot the breeze w/, well the world can't hold a lot of mystery. So what do ya say Fred? Have I pulled the mask off the Lone Ranger? TonyW | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A |
Tony W - That's funny. . . RJ | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.84) Rating: N/A |
RJ, You have the concept,hopefully at idle there would be little power loss if there was not enough exhaust gas, BUT underway some bit of energy in the exhaust would be recaptured. IF 1/3 of the heat / fuel goes out the exhaust 1/3 goes out the cooling and the rest pushes the bus, thats a lot of power to be regained. The stumbling block is a tranny that takes 50,000 to 100,000 RPM in one side and outputs 2000 RPM or less on the other. Havent seen that one in my Northern Hydraulics , however these puppies WERE built . On the aircraft version a quill { breakable} shaft connected directly to the crank. AS any turbo , it would quiet the exhaust too. FAST FRED | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.84) Rating: N/A |
Tony , I'm not talking while the flavor lasts! FAST FRED | ||
| Henry van de Graaf (Hcvdg) (12.13.226.21)
Rating: N/A |
You may want to check out the turbodyne 2500 and the dynacharger (on the turbodyne webpage). I think Uncle Sucker helped pay to install these units on some transits (I wonder if they are now in some boneyard). Food for thought. http://www.turbodyne.com/products/2500.html http://www.turbodyne.com/ | ||
| Jayjay (207.30.115.155) Rating: N/A |
We're working on a modified Webasto boiler to power a steam turbine, to feed a 13.8kw generator, that will run four 100 HP, 3-phase motors. That's one on each corner of the coach. It's a four wheel drive 'natcherly, for all you boon-dockers. I'm currently soliciting cash as seed money for the development of this venture. Now's your chance to get in on the ground floor of a whole new adventure. That's cash donations only. After the IPO you will have to go thru a broker, and lose part of your money to his fees. So send your cash now. Cheers...JJ | ||
| Sam Trammell (152.163.201.212)
Rating: N/A |
The PRT idea is good eacept for a few areas, the PRT drives the crankshaft thru a fluid coupling. This keeps the engine from powering the PRT. The other area of problems is that for the PRT to be effective, a large exhaust flow is needed. . Bye the way, I'm glade to see that some one else knows of R3350 engine and its PRT's. | ||
| rhbelter (206.55.254.59)
Rating: N/A |
Ho, FastFred, and Busnuts, Yuh, Curtis Wright 3350 Turbo Compound Engines !!! I flew the first ones that the Navy had in 1952. Serious horsepower!!! ---- 3850hp Serious unreliable too. I believe the turbine hung into a diesel would only be effective at highest power. NOT an easy task to integrate. I thought that I was the only person left who knew what a 3350 Turbo compound was. BTW, my 400hp Cummins M-11 in my -01 Eagle also has serious HP. enjoy/s/bob | ||
| Mrbus (152.163.195.203)
Rating: N/A |
Like Fred & Bob, I also had experience with the 3350s and their PRTs, mounted in the Willie Victors,(super Connie early warning VW3) the biggest difference is that you are comparing a basicly constant RPM situation with one that is constantly changing (ie Bus engine). I also had the questionable pleasure of driving one of the largest turbos ever used. The turbo was 28 inches in diamater, mounted behind a RT2800 in a North American AJ2P. Weird old bird, 2800 on each wing, and a J33 in the tail. Ah the memories. Gus Haag | ||
| Oaepalmer (Oaepalmer) (208.164.102.86)
Rating: N/A |
JJ, I would be willing to seed the venture with several thousand shares of a WELL KNOWN energy companys stock, this companys name would give your project plenty of press exposure as well as providing you with a company affiliation with world recognition not to mention reputation. Does your ventures office have wallpaper yet? (actually I keep my investment in Seeley or Serta) | ||
| Scott Whitney (24.205.239.26) Rating: N/A |
Lets see, 3000 shares at about $0.67 ea. I'd say we can expect to see that 4WD, EMS (electro-motive-steam) coach pretty soon, eh! | ||
| Oaepalmer (Oaepalmer) (208.164.96.75)
Rating: N/A |
OooppPPs....In the BIG Bidness world yuh hafta move fast boy....by hemmin and hawin, you have already lost 1/3 of the offer....!!! http://finance.northernlight.com/quote.asp?ticker=ENRNQ So my question to you is... are you going to honor the offer or get off with honor, because either honor or offer, time is a wasting. | ||
| Bill Sloan (209.240.222.32) Rating: N/A |
Hi Men. How about the R4360 ,4 rows of 9 cyls.It also was a compound. USAF used it in the B36. How about hooking up to the rear axel? Good Luck Ole Bill | ||
| Oaepalmer (Oaepalmer) (208.164.102.252)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Ole Bill, I have news for you. As a matter of fact, I am a personal friend of Calvin Maye, the man who started chopping US aircraft into recyclable shreds of amuminum in Tucson in 1949 and retired in 1999. This ONE MAN did more damage to the aircraft of the US armed forces than did all of our enemies in all the wars since the invention of the flying machine! From P47's and 51's to B-17's, 29's 47's 52's, 77's, 58's to the entire production runs of the century series fighters..... Ol Cal has killed them all. He told me, the USAF sent in special containers for the shipping of ALL the R4360's removed from the B-36's, back to Wright-Pat, where they were stored and NEVER used again for anything. FWIW...Ol Cal said it broke his heart everytime he had to tow another Peacemaker to the gillotine crane for sectioning. Get yourself a "backstage pass" to WPAFB and see if you can "liberate" one of the several thousand they recieved from Allied Aircraft Sales in the 60's....and let us know how it went ! | ||
| Jayjay (207.30.115.70) Rating: N/A |
I used to live near WPAFB, and several other EAA members and I made several trips there to attemp such a liberation. They were nearly all went overseas to foreign "friends". Obstensibly for military use, but who knows. I saw one on a 21 passenger airboat once. 'Bout 1985 I think, and somewhere on the S.E. coast of Georgia. Cheers...JJ |