| Author | Message | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 75.179.158.67 Rating: |
Hello all. Man my lug nuts are tight.. I have a 24 inch breaker bar on the 1-1/2 six point socket and can't budge them. Is there a trick or do I just need a long piece of pipe? BTW.. are they all standard right-hand threads or are the drivers side left handed threads? Thanks | ||
| Dilip & Zoe (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 67.166.131.55 Rating: N/A |
is there any stamping on the ends of studs to i.d. left or right? | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 528 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
ya' need at least a six foot cheater pipe | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
if you can break them loose with a 24 " bar you missed your calling......and they were too loose as well at least a 4 foot cheater and you standing on it | ||
| busbouy (Busbouy)
Registered Member Username: Busbouy Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 63.193.211.225 Rating: N/A |
I missed the background, so maybe these already got answered... (a) PD-4104 not lots of power compared to a car, whatcha used to driving? (b) Fuel starvation may result in sluggish but not misses (still gets plenty of fuel at idle, just not enough for running full-out) (c) Some buses have a screen on the tank fuel pickup which can get clogged. (d) Dirt/sludge in fuel filter bad... tanks can grow algae (yes, in diesel!). Without knowing anything, just guessing: maybe drain the tank and look at the diesel coming out. If it has crud, filter well before reusing (at a minimum) and/or add some biocide and/or clean the tank (better). If you do get junk and don't clean the tank, carry spare filters and be prepared to re-prime when you change them. | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 75.179.158.67 Rating: N/A |
[if you can break them loose with a 24 " bar you missed your calling......and they were too loose as well] I'm glad it's just not me then. Cause I'm a not little guy... and I was pulling hard. I've seen axle nuts that were twice as big in diameter not be this tight. Wow!! I'll get me a cheater bar. I do beleve I saw an R on the passenger side ones...so if the drivers side has an L, I assume they are left handed threads. Thanks all. | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 159 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
You're correct. An MC-8 has stud piloted wheels and will have right handed threads on the passenger side and left handed threads on the driver's side. DaveD (Message edited by DaveD on January 05, 2007) | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.124.111 Rating: N/A |
If you can't crack em manually it might be worth bringing the bus over to a truck garage and having them try with an impact wrench-will save you a lot of elbow grease. Just make sure they know about LH threads if that's what you have. If the lugs are that tight make sure the studs aren't stretched out! Hank | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 969 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 64.231.200.116 Rating: N/A |
Hello. Just been through this with my parts bus. Left or right hand thread depends on which style wheel system was spec'd by the original owner, and whether someone has been messing around swapping things since then.... Hub pilot, with the fasteners with the built on washers are all the same right hand thread, both sides. Stud piloted with the auto style front nuts and the two piece rear ones, will be different, with the backwards left hand ones on the street side. As noted in other posts, check the end of the stud for something stamped into it. Use lots of penetrating oil, if they don't come free easily with a longer bar, find a heavy truck place to use their big gun to break 'em free, tighten them back up using your breaker bar, and off home to do what you need to do. A round of coffees and some pastries might be all it costs. The shock involved when they break free by hand isn't pleasant on the wrists and shoulders if you have to start really hauling on them. And Hank is right, if they won't come off with a long bar, good bet the threads are pulled, which makes them junk. Look closely, if the threads are leaning over they are stretched. They should be fairly symetrical both sides of each thread. Stretched studs won't hold proper torque, and are more prone to snapping off. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 375 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.126.56 Rating: N/A |
Are you using a 3/4" drive breaker bar to loosen them? A 1/2" drive breaker bar flexes too much and is more prone to failing. Of course, you may already know this. If you are using a 3/4 drive, slip a four foot piece of pipe over it for the necessary leverage.Left hand studs have a "L" on their ends. | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 75.179.158.67 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, I do have a 3/4 drive breaker. I just wasn't aware they torqued that tight. I understand that rusty and old and never been off can be a bear to break initially. What is the torque specs when reinstalling? Do you lightly oil them and torque to what...I think the highest torque spec I eve had to do was on old VW rear axle nuts..I think it is minimum of 250ft/lbs. Thanks again to all. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 970 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 64.231.200.116 Rating: N/A |
500 ft/lbs for the big boy toys. And no lube on the mating surfaces, save for a drop or two on the end of the stud before spinning them on happy coaching! buswarrior (Message edited by buswarrior on January 05, 2007) | ||
| Dilip & Zoe (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 85 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 67.166.131.55 Rating: N/A |
Im not sure on the coach lug nuts etc. but on my vehicles a slight tough of anticease on the lug threading , just a dab is enough keeps the threading fairly clean and the grafite resists picking up dirt etc and also allows a good torque set. I do know that using anticease will also change your torque setting because of the ease it allows torquing. I once heard that you need to torque to 45% more when using the anticease. I could be and probably am wrong but I have never stripped a thread on any of my lt or passenger vehicles using this and also my lugs have all held proper torque using the product. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.214.132.80 Rating: N/A |
Last spring i had to pull all of my wheels and borrowed a 12 to 1 ratio geared lug wrench to do the job. It uses a 1/2" square drive ratchet that is 14" long that also extends to 22" for easier use. Also has a 1/2" drive torque wrench to put the nuts back on. I was so impressed with how easy this was to use even on lug nuts that were over torqued that i ended up buying one of my own. Cost was just over $700 but was well worth it....i need to pull off a front wheel soon and know it will be an easy job now. Their phone # 1 800 332 4450. TIA Products 97 Holly Hill Drive Candler, NC. 28715 | ||
| Phil Dumpster (Phil_dumpster)
Registered Member Username: Phil_dumpster Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.112.104.215 Rating: N/A |
If the lug nuts are tightened to 500 foot-lbs, and you try to remove them with a 24 inch breaker bar, you'd need to apply at least a 250 pound force to the end of the wrench. If they are tightened to 1000 foot-lbs, then you'd need 500 pounds of force. Rust makes the problem worse, but threads in good condition should fit tightly enough so that moisture doesn't get in. Read this on the perils of overtightened lug nuts. http://www.wheel-check.com/mta_sunspot.html By the way, you should never need to use an anti-sieze compound on wheel lugs, or for that matter when the nut and bolt are made of the same or similar material. Save it for the spark plugs that go into an aluminum cylinder head, or head bolts that go into an aluminum engine block. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 376 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.126.56 Rating: N/A |
Over time, antiseize tends to dry out and remain in the root of the thread. Because the threads are so fine, dirt and old antiseize buildup can create more wear on the threads, causing evential breakdown of the threads on the nuts. Also the lubricating quality of new anti-seize will result in over torquing of the nuts if you use factory specs, which will also cause evential breakdown of the threads, and distortion or cracking at the seat area on the wheel. Alcoa does not recommend the use of anti-seize. you can check their website.BTW, fine rust lines or streaks on the wheel coming from the lug nut is a good warning of a loose lug nut | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.214.218.220 Rating: N/A |
To break loose a lug nut torqued to 500 ft-lbs using a 12 to 1 torque multiplier with a 22 inch ratchet you only need to apply 41.666 lbs of force. They advertise that a 12 year old child or a 100 lb. woman can bust loose any truck or bus lug nuts, no cheater bar needed. When i used this last spring i was still recovering from a dislocated right shoulder. I had tried to bust them loose with a 3 ft. cheater bar on a 2 ft. ratchet with no luck. If you have ever jumped on a cheater bar and had it slip off and whack you in the shins you will know that it is not much fun. This thing can deliver as much as 3000 ft. lbs. of torque by hand. We will be at BusN'USA again this summer and i will be glad to show it to anybody that wants to see it in action. Or if you are in the Yuma area this winter the same offer applies. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 278 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.24 Rating: N/A |
Make sure you understand that to loosen a L nut you turn it to the right (CW). I know this is basic but sometimes there is confusion on this. Don't assume that LH wheels are L studs. They're supposed to be on most but mine were reversed when I got the bus! Torque for most trucks and buse steel wheels is around 400lb-ft. Al wheels may be different. It takes far more then 400lb-ft of torque to remove a 400lb-ft torqued nut that has been on for a long time-or for a short time for that matter. When I stand on my cheater bar I support the outside of the lug wrench on a short step ladder even with the lug nut. This keeps the wrench from slipping off and ounding off the nuts and keeps me from falling off the bar. | ||
| Jeffrey Smith (Greenhornet)
Registered Member Username: Greenhornet Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 69.171.184.27 Rating: N/A |
I haven't tried it myself but had been told that a bottle jack under the end of the bar will give you enough ooomph to break free a lug nut without having to climb onto it. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 977 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.48.193.243 Rating: N/A |
Hello. I would offer a strong word of discouragement to jumping on the breaker bar. Too easy to slip off and harm yourself. If pulling on a long bar doesn't do it, jumping isn't adding that much more force, just greatly increasing your chance for injury. The only time you should have a problem is the first time after owning the bus, due to the previous owner and their maintenance or lack there of. Get a longer bar, and remove your wheels annually for preventive maintenance. That way, you know they will come off whenever you need them to, and you have easy access to the grease points and easy to inspect the brakes. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| WILLIAM D. WATKINS (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.164.197.32 Rating: N/A |
My 2 pennies!!! Almost all of the commercial tire shops that I have used, uses anti-seize!!! | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 533 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.229 Rating: N/A |
almost all auto tire shops only use the air ratchet to snug the nuts & now use a hand torque wrench for final tightening.............BUT.....most truck tire repair places still get stupid on the air wrench when tightening (Message edited by bob greenwood on January 08, 2007) | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach)
Registered Member Username: Lukeatuscoach Post Number: 212 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 71.125.139.25 Rating: |
Hi Folks and Happy New Year!!!! There is some poor info. being fed into this thread which has to be corrected, in my opinion. I just went out into my shop and grabbed the first 2 maintainence manuals that my fingers touched and here is what I found!!!! GMC"S RTS Manual C7921A on page 10-1 states, and CAPS are intentional, by me: SEE THAT STUDS AND NUTS ARE FREE OF GREASE OR OIL. DO NOT USE OIL ON STUDS OR NUTS. From MCI's MC-8 Manual 3R-15-413, page 15-2, and CAPS are intentional, by me: WHEEL STUDS AND NUTS MUST BE KEPT FREE OF GREASE OR OIL. NO LUBRICANT, WHATSOEVER SHOULD BE USED. For those reading this Board who are just learning and want to be properly informed, I hope that FACT, as presented by bus manufacturers, will convince you to carry out proper procedures on your coach!!!! Your life, and that of those around you on the highway, could depend upon it!!!! Happy & SAFE!! Bussin to ALL. LUKE at US COACH | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 978 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.48.193.243 Rating: N/A |
Hello. A wheel installer course for Arcadia next year sounds like a fine idea! Or an article of interest.... Installing wheels for compensation here in Ontario requires certification. Course covers the manufacturer recommended practices and tries to dispell the myths popuarly passed on out in industry. happy coaching! buswarrior |
