| Author | Message | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.124.111 Rating: N/A |
I’m getting ready to set up my bus with a propane fueled forced air heater and range. I’m keeping the coach heat and AC for OTR operation. I’m thinking about setting the system up so that the LP tank will be removed from the coach and hooked up outside the coach with a hose when appliances are in use. It seems that this would get around many of the venting issues of an onboard tank…I think… My question is, if the tank is disconnected and shut off does it still require the same type of venting as a tank that is hooked up while on board? I’m guessing it does which would make my whole scheme moot but I thought I’d ask. Also, has anyone tried using brushless box fans to ventilate an LP tank compartment? I’ve read on this board that some folks do it for battery compartments to evacuate equally explosive hydrogen gas. I know hydrogen is lighter than air vs. LP which is heavier. Thanks, Hank | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 68 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Yes, Any propane tank, including portable types. eg barbeque will vent if the pressure inside the vessel becomes too high. this could be caused, if the tank had been filled greater than to the 80 percent level. Joe. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 547 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
no advantage to haveing a removeable tank.. I just drilled a hundred 3/8 holes in the rear bay floor,where the 66 gallon tank is... | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: N/A |
I would not want to have to unload and hook up a tank just to use the range or any other LP appliance. You need to have the tanks secure to travel anyway. Might as well hook them up and vent. Does not take much more than securing the tanks. A partition and a few vent holes. My parents had a tank over filled and it vented going down the interstate as it warmed up. It was an external tank on a class C and did not cause any problem. Just mention it to show you it can happen. | ||
| Henry 96A3 (Hank)
Registered Member Username: Hank Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.129.124.111 Rating: N/A |
That's what I figured, thanks for the input. I'm boning up on LP systems and safety. There's a lot of good info in the archives and bus conversion mag. Can someone recommend a good source for larger horizontal DOT LP tanks now that it will remain in the coach? Thanks, Hank | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 69 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Hank Propane was widely used here for motorfuel a decade or so ago, hence we have an abundance of tanks. If that was the case in your area, you should not have difficulty finding one. Remember a tank mounted in an enclosed space must be rated for 312 Psi if memory serves. ie permanently mounted. Joe. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 151 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 68.205.196.248 Rating: N/A |
I had planned to use 2 conventional bbq size tanks, rather than a permanently mounted tank. It's easy to carry a couple spares, and even easier to find refilled replacements. Not all towns have a place to get a liquid refill for a big permanent tank, but filled replacement bbq tanks are carried at 7/11, etc. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 70 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Another point I have used threaded elbow that mounts onto the relieve valve witha reinforced hose directed tothe outside through a hole in the floor. In all the years that i used that system never had any venting take place, but I also had a mechanical 80 percent stopfill valve installed inside the tank. Joe. | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 443 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.212.168.62 Rating: N/A |
I don't know! I use the small bottles that are what about 20lbs of propane for my vending business and one 20 lb bottle will last about 80 hrs and that's using it at about 25-30lbs pressure which is pretty high. The open flame is about 14 inches in diameter and about 10 inches tall to give you an idea of how hot the flame is. Not sure if this relates to the heaters you guys are using but 20 lbs of propane does last a long time in my opinion and like John said, they can be replaced almost anywhere even wally's! Ace | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 71 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Hank If you could locate, try and find the tank that was used on school busses, they are about 80 us gallons capacity and would be ideal to also run a propane generator from it. They are mounted with 3 brackets 18" diam? I think and rated 312 Psi. Joe. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 95 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 4.235.200.71 Rating: N/A |
my bus with a propane fueled forced air heater and range. The range will use little fuel, you can go months on a 20# tank, if not too much baking is done. There is only 4.3? gal in a 20# tank, so thats not much fuel for a furnace, for very long. Mount a BIG tank , remote the fill pipe (a kit)so its really EZ to fill and vent to code. Its not THAT much area for floor vents, remember 20,000,000 motorhomes/travel trailers over 75 years have few problems , why would you? FF | ||
| Arnold J Molloy (Ayjay)
Registered Member Username: Ayjay Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.160.171.199 Rating: N/A |
Hi: I have one of the 80 pounders permanently mounted, But I have an "Extend-a-stay" by Marshall Gas, installed. I can run the bus off of the 20# (or 40# even 100#) that are readily available when parked, or off the 80# tank when traveling. It's much simpler (and cheaper) to go to Home Depot and exchange tanks than to pay the additional money charged for home delivery in my area. I have an auto-switching regulator between the two 20# for an automatic switch-over when one runs out. AyJay | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 153 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 68.205.196.248 Rating: N/A |
I lived most of my life in the Northeast. We full-timed in our Winnebago for one winter, in our driveway, prior to going full-time after selling our home. Yeah.... it gets damned cold on the side of a Massachusetts mountain; -10 at times. Both 30k btu propane heaters going 24/7, adding 2 AC strip heaters and 2 ceramic heaters for the sub-zero nights.. The built-in tank ran about a week before refills, and I had to drive to Vermont (abt 30mi), to get to a refill station. If our mountain road wasn't plowed, we had a major problem, since the rig wasn't winterized for storage, and if I made it down the mountain with the RV, I'd never make it back up. I ended up installing an adapter to utilize portable propane bottles, since I could exchange the empty bottles for refilled bottles at our local convenience store. Don't get me wrong.... There's nothing wrong with having a BIG tank, but the concept of making things easier should be fully explored. It's not "always easier" to find someplace to refill a big tank. A friend mounted his bottles in the MCI battery compartment after moving the batts to the engine compartment (the battery compartment is already vented, btw). (That's what I had planned to do as well!)  | ||
| Frank Allen (Frank66)
Registered Member Username: Frank66 Post Number: 46 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 Rating: N/A |
i use two 30 lb with auto crossover, that way i can take em out to fill, works well for me Frank allen 4106 | ||
| J.C.B. (Eagle)
Registered Member Username: Eagle Post Number: 95 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 74.130.42.250 Rating: N/A |
Propane has ABOUT 105000 BTU's per gallon. This should give you an idea how long a 20# tank will last with a 45000 BTU furnace. If the burner stayed on continuously one gallon of propane would last a little over two hours. We know that the burner will not burn continuously so your guess of how long a 20# tank will last depends on the weather. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1799 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.79.170 Rating: N/A |
Along that same vein, the most fun I ever had driving was when I spent one winter in Minnesota. The lakes froze over 40 or 50 inches thick and we used to drive out on them and then just giving the car a little gas we could do donuts forever with no danger of slipping off the road. Great fun for a kid! Richard | ||
| Arnold J Molloy (Ayjay)
Registered Member Username: Ayjay Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.160.171.199 Rating: N/A |
J.C.B. You're about 10,000 BTU's hi on your statement, unless you're talking about Imperial gallons. My book has Propane at 95,502 BTU's per US Gallon. That's even less time, to make matters worse a 40,000 BTU furnace will probably burn at 90-95% effeciency. :-(. AyJay | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 82 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.29.25.175 Rating: N/A |
Back in the late sixties I lived and worked all over the country and lived in a 30' travel trailer. My assignments were usually 2-4 weeks at a time. Whenever I was in cold country (Jamestown NY in Feb) I would have the local gas company install 2 - 100lb cylinders. The two thirty pounders on the trailer were about useless in very cold weather. Len | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.80.150 Rating: N/A |
I side with AyJay on the BTU content of propane. Some of the books show 94,600BTU/gal. Propane weighs 4 1/2 pounds per gallon, which means that a 25lb. cylinder holds just over 5 gal. The rating on furnaces is input, which is what the furnace will burn per hour of continuous operation. At 85% efficiency a furnace or water heater becomes "condensing" which means it has to have a condensate drain, and be vented in PVC, as the exhaust is wet, and the condensate has the acidity of vinegar, which would rust metal pipe fairly quickly. To get 80% efficiency out of a furnace requires an induced draft blower, and 90+% requires an inducer plus a secondary heat exchanger. 60-70% efficiency is a much closer number for RV appliances. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.40 Rating: N/A |
I'm in the process of doing just exactly what John's photo shows. I don't have a furnace so the two 20lb will do fine plus I am using one other 20lb in a different location to fire my portable LP heaters. I got really tired of trying to find a place to fill the permanent tank, it only held 6 gl and took more space than the two 20s which hold 4.7gl each. Even when I could find a place to fill the permanent tank it was always a pain to get to the fill station. Now I can find the 20s at most any gas station, drug store and etc. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1031 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.69.234 Rating: N/A |
I have noticed that Suburban rates their furnaces at 75% efficiency, both large and small. The only difference that I saw is the larger units got there with a smaller current draw. I read that to mean that it doesn't take as much blower power to get the same efficiency with a larger heat exchanger. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| J.C.B. (Eagle)
Registered Member Username: Eagle Post Number: 96 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 74.130.42.250 Rating: N/A |
Fellows I think I used the word "ABOUT" for the amount of BTU's per gallon.. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 154 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.108.46 Rating: N/A |
Kinda' reminds me of the time I said water weighs "about" 10 pounds per gallon! Whoooooooie!! -That- was one helluva debacle !! (Har de har har) | ||
| Bill Keller (Busnut104)
Registered Member Username: Busnut104 Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 71.31.76.222 Rating: N/A |
I can carry 5 20lb tanks in the old A/C condenser compartment. Iam using a tankless water heater for coach heat and for domestic hot water and a eng pre heat. I also keep the old bus heat for use while traveling, plus I have heat strips in the roof a/c and a electric heater if needed. | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 308 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.131.40.18 Rating: N/A |
John that's a nice neat installation clean and simple...........just the way I like it! Pat | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 155 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.106.98 Rating: N/A |
Muddog- It's not my installation, it's a fellow busnut's installation. (Message edited by john_mc9 on January 17, 2007) (Message edited by john_mc9 on January 17, 2007) | ||
| Robert & Debra White (Rob_n_deb)
Registered Member Username: Rob_n_deb Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 166.195.7.200 Rating: N/A |
bill your using a tankless water heater for coach heat and for domestic hot water.....my question is how does the coach heat work and the setup...could you enlighten us please.....thanks,Rob | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 77 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Bill I also sent an Email to try and get more detail . Would like to hear... thanks Joe. |