| Author | Message | ||
| Ryan O'Neal (Horizonbound)
Registered Member Username: Horizonbound Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.142.130.21 Rating: N/A |
Hello everyone. First time posting but long time lurker. In the next couple of months we'll be buying a bus. The problem is I'm having a horrible time narrowing down which coach we want to look for. I'm hoping that hearing the thought processes you went through might help me make some decisions. For example, did you have a big list of what was important to you or was it just that lonely bus you happened upon that followed you home? Thanks in advance, Ryan | ||
| Tim Jones (Torquester)
Registered Member Username: Torquester Post Number: 102 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.218.185.12 Rating: N/A |
Ryan, The "lines" (style or look)and ride, sold me. Eagle | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.248 Rating: N/A |
For me, i knew i wanted an over the highway coach with the luggage bays - this was a must. I have loved and played around with old cars and bikes etc my whole life, so when i saw the pictures of my 4104, i immediately fell in love with those classic lines! It still makes me smile to look at it. I can't walk across a parking log without turning back to look at it! It is till pretty rough looking, but i am nearing in on having all the mechanicals brought up to snuff. Then i can work on the pretty stuff! Somehow, it just felt right! Good luck with finding yours! | ||
| Dilip & Zoe (Vintagehounds)
Registered Member Username: Vintagehounds Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 67.166.131.55 Rating: N/A |
Think of it like you were getting married and hope that you have chosen the right mate. You will be married to it whether you know this or not. Does it have like interests and can you communicate well . Is it a good looker to you or is the beuaty under the skin and you like it that way? I bought mine cause my wife picked it out. Americana and Freedom were the interests and so far we are still in love although there have and I guess will continue to be those little arguments that get you on through or over your path but the commitment is there and although as slowly as we go ... We do go. Good luck on this very personal decision!!! Always helps to have a best man available to bounce things off of. Thats why I joined busnuts.. Dilip and Zoe / PD4104 -3069. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 693 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 72.91.107.56 Rating: N/A |
Ditto what D & Z said Unfortunately as of now no one has created a pre-nup for buses - you might keep that in mind - | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
Registered Member Username: Tim_strommen Post Number: 266 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.169.47.134 Rating: N/A |
I always thought it was what was on the inside that mattered and how low maintenece she could be through the relationship (and yes, I'm speaking of the bus, but my girlfriend has been a heck of a find too!). I had a general idea of what I wanted to do with the bus first (in my case, traveling across the country a few times a year, and bringing a few friends - not full-timing). This directed me to look at what would fit on the roads I wanted to travel, and generally what size I would need for the type of activities/head-count I was hoping for. I ended up settling on a transit, with a mechanical engine/tranny so that I could do most of the work myself (and not have to rely on finding the nearest mechanic with a computer every time a light came "on" in the dashboard). I also made sure that the maintenance logs were included with the sale (the transit district I bought mine from at auction was very good at keeping accurate records - a major selling point). Some coaches have unique parts that may be difficult to find (this is especially true of 40+ year-young rigs). And some chassis may be beyond what one is willing and able to nurture to health (take the "rustless money-pit" as an example - get under your prospective rig and get dirty with a flashlight. Peal off some of that road grime and look at the metal in there). The same logic that goes for ladies (men too, gals) goes for a bus - if it's too good to be true, it probably is. AND - sometimes the head needs to kick the heart in the gut when it's just a bad deal (there's no shame in walking away - sleep on it at least one night). Once you have a rig, it'll be a little hard to get rid of - if you find major problems (and if you sell it knowing there are problems imagine the lost sleep). If you have family and friends planed to help you with a conversion - expect no help (except maybe from a few local "nuts" if applicable). This will make the reality of the ammount of work a little harder to digest at first but then you'll truly understand how resourcefull you can be to get jobs done. Try and keep your plans simple and reasonable - don't expect everything (anything) to go right the first try. Oh, and once you get the bus, go out and get the manuals if they're not included. Cheers! -Tim (Message edited by Tim Strommen on January 24, 2007) | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1171 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.127.101 Rating: N/A |
Ryan - Have you checked out the "Articles of Interest" elsewhere on this site? There are several commentaries about looking for and purchasing a shell that will give you some great basics. If $$$ was no object, I'd buy myself a brand new Setra 417 shell to convert (very stylish). . . or a D4500 MCI. But I don't have the $$$, so I'll stick to my 4106. I like the '06 for it's good power-to-weight ratio, nimble 35-foot length, flat floor inside, low overall height, decent baggage bins, acceptable fuel mileage, and classic styling. (No fiberglass caps for me!) Might I suggest that you contact FMCA (www.fmca.com) and obtain a copy of their January magazine. In it you will find lots of bus-oriented chapters scattered all around the country, many of whom put on regional rallies. Go, attend a few, get a feel for what's involved. The big ones are Busin' USA coming up in July in OR, and Busin' 2008 next New Year's in FL. Over 100 coaches attend these events - well worth the airfare/hotel expense - but the local ones can be fun, too! Biggest thing, tho, is to make Mama happy - 'cause if she ain't happy, nobody's happy! Good Luck, and HTH. . .  | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Registered Member Username: Captain_ron Post Number: 655 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.174.79.240 Rating: N/A |
Right place wrong time | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 309 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.225.89.92 Rating: N/A |
Couldn't find an Eagle so I settled for a Prevost, and that's the truth! Everyone is different! I spent two years looking I'm well into my third year of this conversion, It has been an education to say the least! Pat http://prevostlemirage.blogspot.com/ | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 161 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 68.205.196.248 Rating: N/A |
Dilip & Zoe said: "Think of it like you were getting married " And aside from the "prenup" comment.... keep in mind, that unlike any normal relationship, your mate (that is in the form of a bus), will be taking the more aggressive stance regarding the "missionary position".... (you'll need proper lubrication for a bus) (not that there's anything wrong with that) I chose the MC9 for the luggage bay capacity, the ease of conversion, and the abundance of parts. For driveability, I'd have preferred an Eagle, a 4104 or 4106. Once you've been had by a bus, you won't go back to normal sex. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 588 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
also...your skills.. can you do plumbing,elec..mech. IF NOT..buy a coach already converted..and the size,two people can live comfortably in a 35 foot,four people need a 40 foot..and most important,I think, if you are going to do the conversion,it needs to be outside your door,if it's parked a mile or more away,it will take you MUCH longer to complete the conversion | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 272 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
We liked the '83 & up MC9. More stainless in the structure, wide selection of engines/ trannys, polished stainless, new enough to get new parts off the shelf, lots of others have one so answers are easier, lots available for selection & cost. Then, one day on eBay, I saw a 4501 & it was like a switch was flipped. No other bus for me. I hit the 'Buy It Now' button & the fun began. - Rare bus - Few new parts available (Thanks Luke!) - Best styling ever of a bus - Great support from other owners & enthusiast - T drive, so lots of options for engine repowers - dropped center asile - HUGE bays - 11 feet tall To convert one of these presents a host of difficult problems that most other buses don't present, but I wouldn't want it any other way. If you must have a bus conversion, logically, you will be $$$ ahead to find a custom coach conversion & just update/ remodel. They are well built on new chasiss, never a bus so the mileage isn't usually an issue. Before buying a bus, you need to analyze what you want from it; - the journey of the conversion process? - the destinations in a completed conversion? Some enjoy creating the conversion as much as others enjoy traveling. . . Good luck & welcome to the madness! | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 207.179.92.18 Rating: N/A |
A very important issue that has not come up is ceiling height. A bus with a curved roof will be smaller at the outside walls. If you're like me and only 5 ft tall, this is not an issue, but if your 6 ft 4, you're going to end up hurting. My GMC4905 is about 6ft 4 in the middle! Add an air conditioner in the ceiling and the big people get hurt. Also consider an automatic vs manual trans. Most automatics don't get as good fuel milage as manuals. I know everyone has a different opinion because everyone has different needs. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1080 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.166.205.187 Rating: N/A |
Welcome, Ryan - I'm surprised you have having *such* a horrible time deciding. I didn't have that much of a time making up my mind, and there are lots of lists of Pros & Cons amongst the brands out there on the net. If I had more time right now I'd post some links. Perhaps you should list what's causing you consternation, then it might be easier to help you steer to your your own best solution. For me, I knew that I didn't have the extreme skills OR facilities that some of the best converters have. Like a shop full of air tools, welders, a dedicated space to work on it, or the time and inclination for a complete, total reconstruction almost from the frame up. I wanted *great* condition, parts availability and proven performance at the expense, perhaps, of best looking, arguably best-riding, or status. I looked at nine MCIs before I got the one I had... about five minutes into seeing the one I now have for the first time, I knew it was the one. Period, no question. (I did take the time to verify that first impression in the following hours/days/weeks) And though not on the topic of your question, I'll echo what Bob said. If the bus ain't located where you spend the little other time in your life, it will take a *lot* longer and be much less convenient during the conversion process. So give us some clues what's causing your brain-cramps and perhaps give more directed answers. The fun is in the hunt! | ||
| Ryan O'Neal (Horizonbound)
Registered Member Username: Horizonbound Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.142.130.37 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for all the replies so far guys. Great insight. Love the marriage comparison. There are two sides to the coin in this decision for me. The one side is the logical "buy the newest, best shape coach you can find" and then there's the side of me that wants something classic and unique. The MC9 is probably the logical choice. Parts still available, higher roof, lots of pluses. Negatives for me is "everybody has one" and they don't push my buttons in the looks dept. Eagles don't push my buttons much either, don't know why. The front runners are probably the GM coaches. The buffalos have always been near the top of my list for looks, 4106's are right there too. I know where there are a couple 4905's and a few older MCI's. A stick is probably the way I'll go, I like rowing my own, while no doubt there are positives to an auto. Probably a no for the 4104 because of the lack of power. Recently I noticed the 4501 at I-44. This thing haunts me. The problem is the logical side of me screams "money pit". Like Kyle said there are many other more logical choices out there and I may still go that direction but in a few weeks I'm going to drive over & take a closer look at her. I'm close to Lawrence, KS so it's about a 3hrs away. Little background about me. Every car I've ever owned was wrecked or had a blown engine or transmission when I bought it. Same with houses, remodel every thing. I design aftermarket aircraft parts for a living. The bus will sit 30ft from the house so easy to make time for. My mom works for Detroit Diesel Remanufacturing so parts and expertise are very available to me. I'm 6'4, banging my head is the only thing I'm really good at. So, a coach that I have to bend my head down a little probably won't be that big of a deal. Then again, it sure would be nice to stand up... Mostly, I just like hearing how people make decisions and come to the conclusions they do. Thanks, Ryan | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1081 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.166.205.187 Rating: N/A |
"My mom works for Detroit Diesel Remanufacturing" Sweet! Your background is helpful, and knowing that, the answer is.... <drumroll> 102D3! Bending your head down a little WILL be that big of a deal. Next! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1173 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.127.101 Rating: N/A |
Ryan - Chuck left out another excellent candidate, the MCI 102C3. The "C" series was the first to raise the roof an additional 3", so headroom for you would be less of an issue with a C or D. Prices are dropping on the 40-foot Cs & Ds, so these are good candidates. Suggest you might contact the charter bus operators in your area and see if they've got any coaches about to come out of service. Might find something interesting this way, before heading off to the bus dealers. And the opportunity to obtain the service records, too! FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 71 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
Don't Beleive the Hype............ Not all stock 4104's are slow or lack power. Most are jsut tired enngines. Last time I had my 04 out for a tool around I overtook and passed a Newer Van Hool and a pair of MCI DL Hounds......after passing them, the attempted to pass me......a bit more throttle and that was a no go. true they would get me on a grade. Things to consider: Cost Maint records maint costs parts availability shell or converted already intended use duration of use how fast vs MPG | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 75 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
I think he's got the bug! Welcome Ryan. Joe. | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member Username: Kristinsgrandpa Post Number: 286 Registered: 2-2003 Posted From: 64.24.208.236 Rating: N/A |
Parts aren't getting more plentiful on the older coaches. If I were to start looking for another conversion candidate it would be an MCI 102 C3 based on several reasons, but the biggest would be the head room, next would be the 102 in. width. The first 102in. wide coach I entered I could tell the difference immediately and knew I'd neve be happy with a 96in. wide coach. Knowing your height I'd only look at coaches that could have the roof raised easily or a C3/D3. I based my purchase on price, low miles on engine and looks. Ed | ||
| Christy Hicks (Christyhicks)
Registered Member Username: Christyhicks Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.77.66.1 Rating: N/A |
I agree Ed, that my ideal coach would likely be a 102 C3, but we never had the budget to pay for that shell, so we had to choose between the MCI 7-9 units and the Eagles and GMC's. We are driving a 35' GMC 4107, while converting a MCI-9, and we don't regret our choice at all. There is something that I think might be important to point out, when discussing ceiling heights. As some of you know, we recently had to have our 4107 landalled (hauled on a trailer) in Tampa, FL on New Years Day. If we had been over 11'4", sitting, deflated, we could not have been hauled. Now, sure, they could have pulled the tires off and stuff, but I don't think that option would have been presented to us on New Years Day. The rules on hauling and permits did not allow a tow company to haul an oversized load on a holiday. . . maybe a weekend too, don't remember and would require permits, unobtainable on New Years Day. I was talking to the largest towing company in that area, after having exhausted all other leads, so although I'm sure that SOMEWHERE, SOMEONE would have had a lower trailer, the fact is I didn't have a few days to come up with names and numbers. Pretty much the dispatcher made it clear that it was up to the driver whether he could proceed with the haul, and that they don't carry the tools and equipment to pull tires and axles. After seeing that bus take up every square inch of that trailer. . . only an inch or two to spare on the sides, I can not imagine ANYONE trying to remove tires and axles safely. The other option would have been to try to tow us pulling the drive axle and such. . . not a good option. Our TempBus is a GMC 4107, factory roof, low profile rooftop a/cs, and he had to drain the airbags and let the air out of a front tire to get us low enough. Larry is 6'1" and never has had a problem walking around inside our bus. Although many people insist that your bus isn't worth anything without a raised roof, I disagree and would be inclined to point out that everyone insists your bus isn't worth anything anyway, ha ha. At least, not anywhere near what you've got into it. We will not be raising the roof on our 9, for many reasons, one of which was shown to us personally on New Years Day. Now, like I said, I agree with your choice of a 102, but that would be my "first" choice if money were not an object. Heck, if money were not an object, I guess I'd have to go study the whole subject again. As it is, for the price, in my opinion, you can't beat the price of an MCI 8 or 9 shell. Just wanted to pass that tidbit about roof raises along, ha ha. Food for thought. Christy Hicks | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1807 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.79.170 Rating: N/A |
Cindy, I don't understand your lack of time. Seems like you sat in Texas for a few days just shopping and with nothing else to do. LOL Richard | ||
| Christy Hicks (Christyhicks)
Registered Member Username: Christyhicks Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.77.66.1 Rating: N/A |
Well, yeah, I had LOTS of time for sure waiting for the stupid snow storm to get out of our way, and I put it to very constructive use. . .just ask the shoe and dress stores in Grapevine Mills Mall! tee hee hee But, when we were "parked" along I-75 in Tampa, on New Years Day, for some reason, I just felt it was necessary to get us somewhere else pretty quickly, ha ha. Christy Hicks | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 453 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.200.244.251 Rating: N/A |
Hey Christy I guess if I was to be on the side of the road I will be there for a while because my bus is 13'5" to the top of the sat dish! 13'4" to the top of the ac's and they are low profiles. Take them off and you have a stock H3 prevost. I think the low profile a/c's are around 12 inches high give or take so what do all the busses higher than mine (yes there are some) do when they brake down? Even at stock height without the ac's and sat dish it's still pretty high up, so say it has seats inside and nothing on top, what do they do then? Ace | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.125.9.251 Rating: N/A |
Mine was love at first sight. ( i do have to wear glasses) and my fate was sealed when we fired up the diesel from the engine compartment. That was cool. I knew nothing about hiway coachs but this one had bays and a diesel.I still love our bus but probably never would have got her if this board had existed. | ||
| Christy Hicks (Christyhicks)
Registered Member Username: Christyhicks Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.77.66.1 Rating: N/A |
Well, Ace, that's the rub. Here's the info I have: our rooftop a/c units are low profile and they measure about 9" tall. Our rooftop vent covers are 9" tall also. The reason I know this, is because when we were purchasing an automatic satellite dish, we knew we wanted to stay no taller than the a/cs and vent covers. None of the domes were less than 10 1/2" tall, so we ended up going with the A7 Tracvision, which is only 5 1/2 tall. I call it the "stealth satellite" because it is so low and wide and black, ha ha. We are about 11'9" give or take, fully aired up, we're not exactly sure, so we'll measure it one of these days for exact. I do know that when we back into the garage, we barely clear on a 12' door, so it's possible that we could be a little taller. You do raise a good question. I think it would be wise if we could come up with a list of companies that have the drop-bed style landalls, I just don't think they are common as people think they are. I bought a boxcar, that was around 12' tall, and I couldn't find anyone in the OKC area, anyone, that could haul it and clear our power wire at the driveway. I think the power wire was up about 14' tall, but even the lowest bed on a trailer was going to put us too tall. At the very least, they would have to had permits and escort. Well, we could have scheduled something like this, but if you're out on the highway, broke down, you don't have time to arrange all this, plus permits and escort add quite a bit to the cost of the ride. If we couldn't have found anyone to get us off the road, our options would have been to pull the drive and drag it, (which is not a good option IMHO) or we would have had to remove the oil pan, do a temporary fix or find someone with a portable weldor to do a good repair (we did have offers) and re-install the pan, laying under the bus, along a busy highway. Neither of these options was worth the $600+ we paid to be hauled, but if we had been taller, we would have had no choice. It's just that I've always heard that you "just call someone with a landall", but I didn't realize how hard it can be to find someone, especially on a holiday. Even in the OKC area, I spent hours and hours contacting different haulers and moving companies, and in the end, we had to leave the boxcar sit where it was and walk away from a heck of a deal, because the only way to get it in our driveway was to also hire a crane to lift it off the trailer, over the wires, and set it back onto the trailer. . .so the cost just became prohibitive. I felt this was important info for people, not only when they are waffling over raising their roof, but also to perhaps start a dialogue on getting more information on who exactly can haul the tallest units, what is the maximum that they can haul without permits, what the rules are for getting permits, options for escorts when the permits are required (i.e. since most of us have a toad, with proper gear, i.e. lights and banners, can we be an escort?). What's your take on the matter? Christy | ||
| Jeffrey Smith (Greenhornet)
Registered Member Username: Greenhornet Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 198.136.32.74 Rating: N/A |
I still haven't found mine yet. I am a firm believer in "the right one will find you". That is how most of my toys have come along! Personally I am leaning towards a Prevost Champion or an MCI-8, based on looks. | ||
| Ryan O'Neal (Horizonbound)
Registered Member Username: Horizonbound Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.142.130.37 Rating: N/A |
I think the MC-9's would be about the newest bus that appeal to me looks wise. I just can't do the plastic look of the newer models. Granted the interior space would be welcome. I guess if I really thought it was crucial I could raise the roof on a -9. We'll see though. I'm leaning toward a classic coach. Douglas, I probably should have specified when I was talking about the 4104 being slow I meant on the hills. A large percentage of our time will be spent in the Rockies. Basically our travel plans include everywhere from Alaska to Mexico and anywhere in the lower 48. Christy, ironically enough both of my parents used to work for Landoll Corp. It's based in Marysville, KS where I grew up. The lowest trailer they offer has a detachable tongue where they unhook the tongue of the trailer from the lower portion and the truck moves out of the way then you actually drive on the front of the trailer and then they hook it back up. Take a look at http://landolltrailer.com/ and click on the trailer page and you can see what I mean. They really need a better web designer... Ryan | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 160 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
I picked an MCI because of the stainless steel in its structure, the styling and the parts availability. I bought an MC-8. I picked the particlar bus I bought because it had been operated in an area of the country where it wasn't exposed to any signifcant amount of salt and becuase it looked and ran great. It looked like it had been well cared for and has been an excellent bus for the 5 years I have had it. The low key, easy to talk with approach of the dealer helpded as well and the salesman's statement, "This is one bus I wouldn;t hesitate to get in and drive across the country" didn't hurt either. That's eactly what I did when I picked it up. We drove from Milton, WA to Ogdensburg, NY and then to Spencerville in southeastern Ontario in the beginning of December with no problems whatsoever. If I were to buy another one, I'd likely go to the same dealer and see what I could get in an MCI 102A3. I think the extra width would be nice and those models are now more reasonable in price than they were at the time I bought the MC-8. FWIW Dave Dulmage | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 274 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
Ace, If the load is over 13'6" tall, that is where problems start (paperwork & obstacles). I've had 3 buses towed & the driver said that over height isn't usually a real issue to get the bus off the road to a place where a mobile service can repair it. It depends on the route & what crosses the road. Most new buses are interstate cruisers & most newer overpasses are much taller than 13'6". But over height permits ARE required & it takes time & more $$$ to get them. The 45' coaches also present a length problem, so more paperwork & a longer trailer is required. Since my bus is 50+ years old, I like having plenty of options for moving it if it takes a dump somewhere. Too many might think it abandoned (my wife hopes so & keeps her fingers crossed). Just know there are special needs that accompany tall busses. All that extra headroom comes with some hidden costs. Let's hope we never discover them all. | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 72 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
ryan, believe me an MC-9 with an 8-71 will be slow in the rockies too...... Suggest you get somethjing newer with big HP if that is a concern. but to put it in perseppective..... cross country trip from PA to CA accross 70 Pickup alone.................1 hour faster than the 4104 towing the same truck loaded with 2 motorcycles. thats incllusding all stops which were identical. | ||
| Christy Hicks (Christyhicks)
Registered Member Username: Christyhicks Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.77.66.1 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the info, Ryan, and you are right, they do make some landolls that are lower, but our problem was that by the time the trailer arrived, we were completely out of oil, so starting the bus to drive it up onto the trailer would not have been an option. We were winched onto a rear-load landoll, the type that tips the rear down and gets up most of the way up, then rolls the wheels back and levels you out. When they dropped us, again, we knew we wouldn't be able to start the bus to get up on ramps, so they dropped us with our rear wheels right on top of the run-up blocks, which meant that we spent the night "on the slant" until they could get us repaired in the morning. It sure was an adventure! Christy Hicks | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 454 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.212.179.72 Rating: N/A |
Kyle I am well aware of the needed permits it takes to move a vehichle of sorts but remember my headroom is not what you think! My coach though it's a H model has less headroom than the H model that is pro converted. The difference is I have taller bays where the VIP coaches have shorter bays and more headroom. The height of each are very close and there are LOT of VIP coaches on the road! Just ask Prevost, Vantare, Liberty, and all those other high end pro conversion companies! I got the cheap model you might say! Ace | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 393 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.126.56 Rating: N/A |
For all you people with 6'4' height or more or less, it might be cheaper to have your legs shortened so you could get around in a GM, instead of having to buy one of those expensive shells. | ||
| Ryan O'Neal (Horizonbound)
Registered Member Username: Horizonbound Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.142.130.37 Rating: N/A |
Douglas you must have one slow pickup Kidding kidding... I'm probably selling the 6-71 short. I would expect a MC-9 w/ 8V-71 & 4104 w/ 6-71 to be comparable in power to weight ratio, if the -9 had a 6V-92TA that would upset the equation a bit. What�s the top speed on level ground of your setup (not over a cliff) and your rpm at cruising speed? Mpg? (I can hijack my own thread right?) I'm a bit of a hot rodder by nature. If I end up with a bus with an 8V-71N at the least it will end up with a low pressure turbo system on it (5psi) to maintain sea level hp levels up to about 10,000ft. A "smoke turbo" if you will. I figure if God wanted things to stay stock he wouldn't have left the door open for aftermarket folks like me. Ryan | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 275 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 68.159.68.254 Rating: N/A |
Wasn't knockin' your coach, Ace. Just tryin' to answer the question you asked "what do all the busses higher than mine (yes there are some) do when they brake down?" | ||
| steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225 Rating: N/A |
well as far as I see it, If Ive got to be towed its major problems anyway. I just said what the hell and raised my roof 12 inches. Hope I never have to double think (why). Steve | ||
| jim morrison (Jim_morrison)
Registered Member Username: Jim_morrison Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.142.29.218 Rating: N/A |
they pull the drives and use a wheel lift , or they disconnect the tranny on automatics.. hope this helps........jim | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 123 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200 Rating: N/A |
One additional tidbit (maybe a couple tidbits!) on this well covered subject....an MCI is hands down, the easiest coach to repair and find parts for. This is especially so for MC 8s and 9s. The engine has good access (from the outside, not under the bed!), and the later versions drive well. Most have 6V92TAs which is adequate for homegrown conversions. There are larger engines that will almost bolt in...8V92TA for instance? MC9 T drives will allow use of heavy truck transmissions and engines...since RH drive. Prevost and Eagle also benefit from a T drive layout...V drives are LH (GM, Flex) and are LH drive. Downside is that most MCIs will be automatic...bummer. A caveat, buses are geared rather tall, and you may find that working a bus around in tight quarters is rough on a clutch. There are a lot of trans options that could overcome this problem. There are a few sticks around and the price should be lower for those. I bought my bus because the body was pretty straight. I can change engines, but don't do bodywork...looked at a lot of MC9s, and as Chuck sez, once I walked around this one, and checked all the bay doors and floors, told them I'd take if they could start it and it moved. It started (25* that day), and I drove it back to Charlotte. Got it from Sawyers Bus in Va...based on my experience, I'd recommend them as a source for a used coach. As with all bus purchases, the buyer had better beware. They all have issues...the game is to figure out if you want to deal with the "issues." All the above is why I bought my bus. The only thing that I'd change is the next one would be 102"...I've been very happy with my 87 MC9. Best, JR | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 58 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.238.70 Rating: N/A |
Well, JR. Can't say I absolutely agree with your first line...the Crowns are "over the counter" on just about everything. And pretty easy to find most anywhere. Of course, there is always that possibility,right? RCB '64 Crown Supercoach | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Registered Member Username: Sffess Post Number: 683 Registered: 1-2002 Posted From: 67.142.130.33 Rating: N/A |
I liked the GM 4905 better than anything but when I could not convert one I bought a used professionally converted Prevost LeMirage. I believe Horizon has a sister coach to mine, with the mid door (only 6 built). If you buy a shell, it probably does not matter what you get, as long as it is in good shape. i don't believe the privately converted Prevosts are going to command a premium over other coaches in the future because now there are enough used Prevosts on the market that were never in commercial service, professionally converted new. It will be like owning a large boat or airplane, easier to buy than sell, so fall in love with one. Buy the way mine will eventually appear in BNO buses for sale, but I bet you can get the Horizon mid door Executive Coach Corporation mid door Prevost conversion for less than I would sell for and less than you think. That mid door is wonderful, and I fell in love with it, but it is still a negative feature in selling, meaning the buyer should save more. | ||
| Rob Leight (Robleight)
Registered Member Username: Robleight Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.13 Rating: N/A |
I realize that there are tons of posts on this one, but........... DON'T Get an Eagle!!! Everyone told me that, & I ignored them because of the way I liked the look and ride. Parts are way too expensive, and the probability of rust is horrible! $80K later in repairs and renovation, we finally had to cut and run. Prevost - we're very blessed to finally we have one, they are awesome, but pricey. MCI - Best bang for your buck (cheaper in parts and availability, and MCI mechanics are everywhere (transit companies all use MCI) | ||
| Jeffrey Smith (Greenhornet)
Registered Member Username: Greenhornet Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 198.136.32.74 Rating: N/A |
JR, just picking yer brain here but why do you like the stick shift over the auto transmission? I don't have a coach myself,yet, but have seen a few with the stick shift. Aren't they harder to drive, overall? Is there really that big a difference in clutch life to make it worthwhile? I have a stick in my Healey and enjoy that for occasional pleasure driving, but would think a bus would be a pain over the long haul. Any thoughts? | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 594 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
The pain ....with an auto...will be felt when you install one ..or have one rebuilt, | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 276 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
Auto VS manual is a personal choice. I can drive a stick, just don't like to. The pain in my knees is bad enough as it is. Also most buses with manual trans have 4 or 5 speeds which are for hiway miles, not jockeying around in a camp ground. Get what you want in your bus that will suit your needs, after all it is your bus. | ||
| norcal kyle (Kylexisxrad)
Registered Member Username: Kylexisxrad Post Number: 111 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 216.220.208.125 Rating: N/A |
Rob, why would you tell him to stray away from a certain make because of one bus? all buses rust, undeniable fact, but it has much more to do with proper care and area of operation than any particular brand. OTOH, Eagles do have lots more steel than say MCI, GM, Prevost, etc, but if you search hard enough and long enough, and pump your brain with all the bus knowledge you can handle, you can find an Eagle that is just what you need, and in beautiful condition. I can speak FROM EXPERIENCE(that's key here) that my bus will be 27 years old this april, and is still on her ORIGINAL set of torsilastics, with mounds of adjustment left, and rides better than my honda accord. sure, a new complete set of torsion bars is in the area of $12,000 plus, but when is the last time you heard of an Eagle in RV service that had all the torsilastics fail at once?(unless of course they were bad from the start, which is where my first point of shopping long and smart comes into play). also, I have found that no parts on an Eagle are more expensive than I could handle(and I do NOT make loads of money, I mean c'mon, I'm just a cook), and the "new" Silver Eagle Bus Manufacturing is fabricating brand new torsilastics that can be very easily fitted to all models of our beloved birdies, plus numerous other small parts. the only real trouble I've had finding parts if my motor, only because almost every shop besides a DD dealer doesn't carry filters etc for the old 2 strokes. also, being near 30 years of age, my bus has almost NO rust at all. she was operated by Evergreen Trails(Seattle Gray Line) from her birth in 1980(older than me, haha) up until 1998 running Holland America Line cruise passengers from Seattle to Vancouver, Canada all week long. luckily Gray Line took very good care of her and treated her right. I know that there are lots of rusty Eagles(I've seen tons of them), and those buses really are money pits, but there are lots of beautiful conversion candidates out there that should be considered. don't get me wrong, I love all the makes of buses and didn't actually become a true Eagle lover until owning one, but I do think they have a bad wrap. I've driven MC-8's and 9's(and I really do like the look), and they drove wonderfully, and I think prevos are beautiful coaches, but there's nothing like driving an Eagle down the hiway @ 70mph. you really do just glide down the road, almost like floating. its the original movie star bus. where Driving Miss Lazy? he always jumps in to defend the texas ladies. sorry to write a book....lol kyle in norcal 1980 Eagle 10 #30223 ps: I have an auto, only because I'm a fan of the "stomp and steer" system. | ||
| steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225 Rating: N/A |
Rob what the h**l did you spend 80,000 dollars on, in repairs for on the eagle you have. It sounds to me that you should have had a brand new drive train and suspension for that. What else was left to do????? Sounds like you cut and run away from a dandy good bus!!!!!!Us, we love our eagle to death, even if we can, hear her doin a little rustin in the back yard, shes ours, were proud of her ,and shes paid for. Sorry buddy, you just hit my soft spot. Steve | ||
| Manny (Buscrazyinfl)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazyinfl Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.185.35.73 Rating: N/A |
Steve, I'm with you. I have an Eagle 05 and I love it, and the more I read about the Eagle history the more I love it. No doubt, there are other great buses out there, such as the MCI and the Prevost, I suppose it's a matter of individual preference. Eagles are known for their excellent ride and their stylish design. My first encounter with an Eagle bus was back in 1973 when I was a teen and a Southern Gospel group came to our church to sing. They had a brand new Eagle that had been converted to a coach and it was so beautiful! Very plush!! I fell in love with that coach and have never forgotten it. By the way, the name of that group was "Eternity Express" maybe someone out there has heard of them. Eagles have my vote but I'm partial. | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 125 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200 Rating: N/A |
Jeff, my idea of a nice "stick" is one of those rare '95 MCI 102D3s. They are easy to drive..easy clutch. However, my wife couldn't drive it (she can easily drive our MC 9/auto out on the big roads), it would not be an ideal conversion shell for most operators. Older coaches without an air assist clutch are a bear to drive..same is true if the air assist isn't operable or not correctly adjusted. This would keep a lot of folk from driving them. The linkage on older shifties may be so sloppy that driving them is seriously tiresome. In answer to your question, most bus owners that have OTR trucking experience are comfortable with shifting...non drivers are not usually inclined to wrestle with, or learn to drive a bus. Unlike a truck, a bus is geared tall and isn't designed to dink around tight places at low speeds...you'll see new owners smoking clutches. Expensive learning curve. The downside to autos, as has been mentioned, is the cost of repairs. If an auto fails, it's gonna get your wallet's attention. However, a good auto will outlast most bus owners. An auto bus will bring more bucks, buying and selling. Thay make the best conversions for most folk. I've got an auto, and it works fine...the only reason I like manual trans is the concept of simplicity...it's easy to fix. Cheap (relatively speaking) to replace. I will probably continue to use automatics in my bus. Still, you never know?? Some of the shifters avail in the trucking industry are no longer "simple"...things like "AutoShift" Voith, ZF, are very complex items and with the exception of the Eaton, nothing I'd be interested in. A old RoadRanger is more to my liking. A RR transmission will overcome the problem of low speed moving too with its ultra low forward and reverse gears. A book could be written on transmissions potential in various coaches. V drives aren't allowed in this argument. Now, about that Crown being easier to fix and find parts for??? What's a Crown?...Where did you say the engine is mounted? Sorry...! ;) REgards, JR |