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steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 8:02 pm: | |
Anybody use this por 15, Ive heard alot about it and so far its all been good. Got any ideal whats in it that makes it fight rust so well? Ill soon be introducing my 69 eagle to yall and youll know why im inquiring about this stuff. Opps I gave it away when I said eagle. lol Steve |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 164 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.107.160
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 8:16 pm: | |
An Eagle? Yee gads, man.... You'd need enough to dip the entire bus..... (jus funnin' wid youse!) (HAR) |
jim morrison (Jim_morrison)
Registered Member Username: Jim_morrison
Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.142.29.218
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 8:29 pm: | |
like to hear about it to , ihave a 68 eagle , and yes they all rust, but what a ride lol...jim |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:03 pm: | |
jim, I been cuttin rust out for a month, I decided since the sills were all gone, while I was at it, Id just put in 4 slideouts. Yea, 4. I know I know Im crazy, But the wife says make it as big as possible. Shhh dont tell her its even possible to lengthen and widen em or im in deep caca....lol...raised the roof 12 inches and Im in the process of completly.......rebuilding and engineering both walls.....raised drivers area with roof (high driver) Will build custom cap for the rear and I think Im goin to modify an eighteen wheeler cap for the front with a stand off light valance. I think Im doin pretty good since my bus was delivered dec. 4 o6 fully seated and its just a skeleton now. Working by my self and carrying a fulltime job. I know I burn out soon but im trying to get as far as I can before I have to stop and take a break. This is my first bus but Ive built some rods in my time. Ill keep yall up on things to come. Steve |
JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047
Post Number: 122 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:07 pm: | |
Whatever you coat with POR 15 must be protected from the sun...may not be a problem on frames and such...however, coating the outside of a frame with POR won't do much for the "other side"...the inside. Unless the paint has been altered to include UV resistance, the sun burns it right off. Otherwise it dries hard as a rock and adheres, and inhibits rust, very well. Similar to expoxy finishes in appearance. It's too expensive to use over large areas. Anyplace that road hazards like rocks and gravel get to it will chip it off. POR is ideal for semi-custom frame and trunk panels on indoor stored car restorations and such...not sure about a bus frame. Have no idea what makes it a rust inhibitor...lots of low tech finishes have similar rust inhibition...Rustoleum for one. Rustoleum is no where as "hard" a finish as POR. Gary Labombardo talks about something like "Rustbullet"....don't know what it is, but likely cheaper than POR. Haven't priced POR lately, but I was buying it for $100 plus per gallon a few years ago...may be cheaper now. Post pix of what you want to do... BTW, Gary L should be considered a reference on Eagle rust. He knows a lot about rust. Best, JR |
jim morrison (Jim_morrison)
Registered Member Username: Jim_morrison
Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.142.29.218
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:19 pm: | |
omg you bought a job lmao, get some pic's let us see what your do'n, sounds great from what you said, and the wife said make it bigger , wow size does matter lol', i haven't had to do a thing to mine yet , but i know i will in time , and my lady says leave it alone , for now lol, the pic's will be fun to see , and to see the head ache's i have to deal with in the near future , thanks .....jim |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:30 pm: | |
JR, I been readin in on yall, for about 6 months or so now. I bought Garys cd before my bus, Id been surffing ebay for about a year for the right bus.....lol..... and one day as a kinda joke I made an offer on this bus, and to my surprise they took it. FYI It was in charllote, nc when I bought it. Offer on bus........2,200..............Cost to get it to Lexington.....................1,500 on a rollback...........Anyway, water under the bridge. I got it and I cut out the bad and Im welding in better now. When I por the frame Im goin to cover it with sheet aluminum and undercoat that with "rustbullet" in the wheel well areas. Im just real curious as to whats in the stuff. Thanks Steve |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member Username: Kristinsgrandpa
Post Number: 287 Registered: 2-2003 Posted From: 64.24.211.107
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:37 pm: | |
Look at Rustbullets website. They advertise that they are better than POR 15. The last two quarts I bought were Rustbullets. Both the POR and the Rustbullets are great. Get some of the acid etch stuff called Ospho or the stuff from Lowes is Jisco. It's supposed to convert the rust from iron oxide to something else(I forget exactly what). Then put the POR/Rustbullets over it. Both are impervious to everything except sidegrinders and military ball ammunition. Ed |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:44 pm: | |
where, if anywhere can I buy por 15 and rustbullet, off the shelf? Steve |
jim morrison (Jim_morrison)
Registered Member Username: Jim_morrison
Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.142.29.218
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:45 pm: | |
i know what a side grinder is but military ball ammunition ????i admite im not the sharpest tool in the shed but , militarry ball ammunition, please inform me , sorry to sound dumb but ... |
Ray Lala (Rayshound)
Registered Member Username: Rayshound
Post Number: 85 Registered: 8-2003 Posted From: 68.201.216.135
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:48 pm: | |
Por 15 is a 3 part process. First you use marine clean it takes any oil out of the surface, next you use metal ready this is a rust converter it is similar to ospho or naval jelly. Then you use por 15 it adheres to the metal and keeps the moisture out. It is sensitive to light but like it reads in the instructions it will not hurt the protection of the paint only fades it. It also explains how to coat with primer and regular paint while the por-15 is still wet if you don't like the faded look. Been using it for years a little bit goes along way compared to regular paint. The biggest thing is to follow there procedure and not substitue any of the processes example laquer thinner instead of marine clean or using ospho instead of metal ready. This is proven stuff! Ray |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:51 pm: | |
awe come on jim, Its a lead ball you know, like the ones you have to have goin over the mountains with a bad compressor thats wantin to quit on you at any down hill grade.....lol.... I think ed is talking about lead balls for a powder gun like daniel boone had.. Steve |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:02 pm: | |
Ray, Im sand blastin everything but the insides of the tubes, as I dont even want to see any rust. So I guess I can skip the "metal ready", right??? Im also curious as to whether I need to use some etching primer before the por 15. I think It would be cheap protection against the rust. Im goin to alot of lenth to get rid of the rust, and want to put good inhibitors back on but, I want to get it right. Steve |
jim morrison (Jim_morrison)
Registered Member Username: Jim_morrison
Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.142.29.218
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:05 pm: | |
well i under stand the down hill thing i've drive'n the west coast of Mex. and that was an eye opener , but i'm a canuck and we as a genereal don't mess with powder guns lmao but as for Daniel Boone didn't he use a knife alot , lol we as Canadians are always miss lead... jim |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:09 pm: | |
naaaaa that was Tarzan.....lol.... |
JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047
Post Number: 124 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:10 pm: | |
Steve, you're not too far from me. I'm just South of Charlotte (Matthews area). Your Eagle was in my back yard and I didn't know it! Hope you git-r-done soon! Since you've made contact with Gary, not much to ad... While this may have changed recently, POR was only available from East and POR via mail-order. I was buying it directly from POR. As Ray says, a little goes a long way...get a little on you and you'll wear it for weeks. Never mess with that sutff before and important meeting! You'll be sorry! When you gonna have the Eagle on the road? Regards, JR Charlotte, NC |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:26 pm: | |
Jr, Well have to hollar atcha sometime, Lex is 5 hours away but were nascar fans and go to alot of races, and well have to stop and see yer bus sometime when were at the charlotte race. I scratch built us a stick and staple for a tide me over till the bus is done. I took a 76 moterhome off my dads place and built it from the frame up. Dad sold it to me for a couple of grand, but after I got-er-done he offered me 40 grand for her back but no way.....lol.....He dont know it but itll be 50th wedding present for them when I get the bus done. Oh when, Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mabeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm........5 .......6.......years???????????Hope fully 3.....Hows that for a bus nut answer. Oh as for getin shiiiii on my hands... I build solid surface tops for a livin and keep that stuff on me 24 7. Steve |
Michael Sheldon (Msheldon)
Registered Member Username: Msheldon
Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 68.230.115.166
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 1:15 am: | |
Military ball ammo refers to full metal jacket ammo. Doesn't actually have to be ball-shaped. |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.13
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 1:23 am: | |
Hello Steve, I guess everyone is waiting till I make my comment on your thread and this is the first I seen it today. I hope my CD gave you some help and ideas on your bus and also that you check my web site occasionally for any updates I am making ever since I made that CD you bought. Rustbullet, I can't say enough about, you did not have to sand blast your bus but I do understand your wanting to and I also grind my metal clean from habit I guess but I have coated some surfaces without grinding, I only scraped off the loose stuff and used the Automotive Rustbullet that can be spray painted over the frame and it loves rust. I do not know what the ingredience is, that is how they got their patent and I am sure will not tell you what is inside. But What do I care as long as it does as they say. I have a test piece still on a brick wall attached to my bus shop that is exposed 24-7 in all weather in the open and this test strip is about 8" X 10" and 1/2 of it is coated with only 2 coats of rustbullet and the other has none at at all. This has been on this wall for since last March, the rustbullet side is still coated and looks real good, the non coated side has rust nearly 1/32 in depth I would say. The only rust on the coated side is one edge I did not coat with two coats I believe in an area about 1/2" and all it would need is to be recoated and she is better than new. I would recommend watching their test results, this paint cannot be purchased in a store, but you have to also use precautions when using it, you have to protect your lungs with a respirator when applying Rustbullet and be sure to use chemical resistant gloves to prevent getting any paint on you as it will be 8 days of showers to remove it. This paint has been tested against 319 other rust preventing products, I cannot offer any more information than what the test results offer other than I am very pleased with the results. Buy it in the quart size to minimize any waste, try to use the entire can at once if possible as this stuff will glue the can top on for good almost if you do not clean off the top real, real good before putting on the top of the can. When hard on the surface you paint it on, you will have to grind it off to get off. Good luck with the conversion, I assure you that you will be happy with Rustbullet after applying on your nice clean material but again this is not really necessary I assure you of that also. Spend time at their site, www.rustbullet.com and you can order directly from them on line or by phone. I am enclosing the photo of the actual piece test piece I put on my concrete block wall nearly 1 year ago to be in the weather 24 hrs. per day for you to see. It still looks like this except the rusty side is way worse now. All I did was wire brush this piece before coating with Rustbullet. Hope this helps, You coat that Eagle with Rustbullet like I am and she will last you another 4 decades or more. Gary |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 7:48 am: | |
Gary, your cd was instrumental in making many of my design changes in my coach to accomodate the removal and repair of the rusty areas of my wheel well areas. It also gave my some insight on some ways of keeping the rust at bay. Is it just me or, would all rusty eagle owners agree that if they had put a sealed double wall skin at the factory, in the wheel well areas, we wouldnt be seeing all this rust now. Again I was glad to have your cd for insight. Just wondering, did your test piece in the above pic have rust on it before the coating. Id like to know what happens when this stuff is coated over rust, just for piece of mind in the areas that I cant possibly get to with the blaster. Again thanks for the insight Gary, well be in touch, Steve |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 593 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 8:15 am: | |
It sticks to rust BETTER than clean metal |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 110 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.13
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 9:32 am: | |
Hi Steve again, This test piece above was rusty before I painted it with rust bullet. This is how it actually looked when I wire brushed it only, then painted right over the rust. As Bob says, this paint loves rust, it actualy makes the paint adhere and react better mixing with rust?? Who would of thunk it?? That is why I said it is not necessary to strip it to bare metal, let it work as it is designed, you will be very happy with results & do a whole lot less work, I promise!! I am enclosing a photo taken a few moments ago on January 26, 2007 of my test piece on the block wall I told you about. I over exaggerated about the thickness of todays rust, it if about .010 or more but very rough. You have to be sure to put the same amount of Rustbullet on every surface, corners, edges etc. or you will get a bleed through but only in that area undercovered with the rustbullet application, then you just put another coat on that area as you discover it in your inspectin in weeks down the road. There is no 3 parts application, just put 2 coats "BUT" 3 coats is best of rustbullet, one right after the other if possible, if the paint just barely sticks to your gloves, shoot her again and get the full thickness bonded together as one as they dry. You can get a very small sample can package from them to test for yourself, not sure of the price but worth trying for yourself instead of just words from me. Put it on the worst, rusted piece of metal you can find, only wire brush the high loose meaterial and leave the rest, then paint her by hand 3 coats on your own test piece as I did mine. Put 1/2 painted, 1/2 still rusted, do not wire brush the part that is to be left rusting to be sure that the process is burning hot like it was before you worked on it. Place it in the worst wet area, in all weather and let her sit for weeks and see for yourself. You will have proven to yourself what the Rustbullet test results and my results show. I am almost burned out here and do not want to bore you to death any longer but try it as I suggested for yourself, date it and wait a few weeks to see results. Hope this helps, just ask for any information I can help you with, might be lengthy but as thorough as I can muster. Gary |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member Username: Kristinsgrandpa
Post Number: 288 Registered: 2-2003 Posted From: 64.24.211.117
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 9:41 am: | |
Bob iis right, it does stick to rusty metal better than smooth metal. If you read the directions, it will tell you that the lid will not stick to the can if you put a piece of saran wrap over it first. this works. Once opened it will harden in the can if not used soon. By using the saran wrap it seals the lid pretty good and I've had cans of it last for over a year. Ball ammunition is copper jacketed steel. Ed |
R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb
Post Number: 59 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.144.243
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 10:56 am: | |
FWIW..this has been a very informative and helpful discussion. Thanx for starting the thread and thanx for the excellent comments. RCB |
Arnie Molloy (Ayjay)
Registered Member Username: Ayjay
Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.160.153.191
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 10:57 am: | |
Hi; The following has nothing to do with POR which incidently works best over wire brushed rust. Ball ammo is "OLD" military lingo for a bullet, when ALL bullets were round balls, today, it's used to distinguish a "Lead" filled solid, non-expanding projectile from other types like hollow point, incendiary, armor-pirecing and tracers. AyJay |
jim morrison (Jim_morrison)
Registered Member Username: Jim_morrison
Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.142.29.218
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:57 am: | |
well now im informed thanks some of us Canucks just don't play with them toys...jim |
Leland Bradley (Lee_bradley)
Registered Member Username: Lee_bradley
Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 140.178.68.117
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 12:02 pm: | |
Ball ammo refers to the powder not the projectile. The powder is shaped into little balls as opposed to sticks. |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 595 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 1:24 pm: | |
I knew somebody would get it correct....eventually |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 2:51 pm: | |
Hey Gary, whats the rusty piece of metal look like after you remove the rust bullet? Just curious what it does to the rust to stop its action. Ever try any por 15? If I can ever figure out how to down size the pics from my digital camera Ill post yall, some of my rusty pics. If anybody can help me there Id appreciate the inside info. Sure would like to introduce the ole bus to yall. |
Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus
Post Number: 290 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.26
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 3:49 pm: | |
In a nutshell Por15 & Rustbullet forms a barrier between the metal & air/moisture. If you take away the moisture/air from the metal the corrosion process stops. "Regular" paints and primers can't do this as well. Epoxies can get close, but the metal has to be sand blasted or rust ground out. Back before the invention of this stuff, we used to use fiberglass resin on & in the areas we couldn't get to. "Anyplace that road hazards like rocks and gravel get to it will chip it off." A neat trick to keep the Por15 from chipping off the frame is to get the spray on bed liner in the spray cans at about $8 a can. Works great and will take alot of abuse. |
Arnie Molloy (Ayjay)
Registered Member Username: Ayjay
Post Number: 65 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.160.153.191
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 4:16 pm: | |
Sorry to disagree ! Ball ammo is as I described Ball powder refers to the shape of the individual grains of powder, flaked, cylindrical, etc. |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 111 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 6:06 pm: | |
Steve, I am not sure what the test piece looks like underneath the Rustbullet after all this time, I will have to grind it off of coarse but when I do I should be right at the bare metal so I still will not be sure. To satisfy this question, I will try and carefully remove some of the rustbullet off my test piece you see here and see what is happening, this is a good question and I will do this tomorrow, too tired after working on Eagle today. As far as this product chipping, I rather doubt it but I can't swear to it. Even it this happens and is seen on your inspections, a brush with a dab of the bullet stuff on it will again prevent any continuation of the rust. Perhaps coating your wheel well with the bed liner after you coat it with rustbullet will help, I am not sure, but I do know that it will not break down the Rustbullet. I like the gray and this is what I truthfully did. I coated my wheel wells with 3 coats of rust bullet, then one coat of black bed liner and then it was too dark in there, so I shot the bed liner with a light coat of rustbullet to make it gray again. Here is a couple of photos to show you. One more thing, I believe someone asked why the manufacturers of these Eagles in particular did not enclose all the framing like I have done to prevent this Eagle Rust situation. Well I am told that these buses are intended to last only 12-15 years originally and then be scrapped out or replaced. Now this is not etched in stone by me but makes sense, that is the reason for short changning the wheel wheels from being completely enclosed back then to save $$ of coarse like all compaines do now. These buses were not intended to be turned into motor homes etc. after their service was done under their planned use. Hope this helps out Steve, I will grind that piece tomorrow, if I don't forget. Gary
|
Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus
Post Number: 291 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.22
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 6:14 pm: | |
Military Ball Ammo refers to the projectile. The older ball ammo was a steel ball coated with a copper jacket and was able to shoot through light armor plate, but not that great a "one shot, One kill" round because it will go straight through the enemy. The newer ball ammo is a lead bullet surronded by a full metal jacket and is designed to bounce or tumble around inside the enemy to inflict the most damage. That was the way it was explained to me during my stay at Parris Island. Dale |
jim morrison (Jim_morrison)
Registered Member Username: Jim_morrison
Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.142.29.218
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 6:15 pm: | |
thats it , you sold me i really think you should be in the realestate market, but can you get it in Canada?...jim |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 112 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 9:31 pm: | |
Jim, I do not know if they have any dealerships in Canada or not, but if you are interested I am sure after you try this product and love it like I am sure you will I believe that option is open. I do not know the particulars but email them from their web site, ask if they mail to you and I am sure they probably will, why wouldn't they really, $ is $. You might become the Canadian dealer and the profits would be yours. Good luck and stay warm up there. One reason I left upstate NY, could not stand the bitter cold any longer but I do miss the beauty up there. Gary |
Tim (Timkar)
Registered Member Username: Timkar
Post Number: 59 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.67.246.135
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 10:23 pm: | |
Jim...Yes you can get it in Canada . Go to their webage, international and then Canada. Distributors in Alberta and Ontario. |
Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc
Post Number: 295 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.17
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 12:12 am: | |
I stopped removing rust years ago when I discovered latex base rust converter. It changes the rust to a hard black substance that can be painted or left alone if you want black. The best part is that it stops future rust. The problem with removing rust is that it just comes back unless you use an elaborate metal treatment process. Rustoleum is worthless, no better than plain paint. Latex rust converter is so easy to use. It is relatively expensive but nothing like POR and is available at WM. WM has different brands but it must be latex base. Look in the auto body repair section with sandpaper and body filler. Their current brand is Kleen Kutter I believe, another brand is "Extend" and is made by Loctite Co and can be found in hardware stores. Latex base rust converter is very thick and a creamy color. The rust does not have to be removed unless it is very thick and scaly. Isn't that great? The converter requires rust to work so it is no good on clean metal. I discovered this stuff about 15 years ago after many years of struggling with Naval Jelly and other worthless methods. If you must remove rust the acid that is used in swimming pools, Hydrocloric I think, works very well and is inexpensive. It is, however, very dangerous and the metal must be washed thoroughly and treated immediately because it starts to rust instantly. |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 26 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 4:53 am: | |
Thanks everybody, this has been an interesting venture on this por 15 issue. Ill have to do some test on this rust issue before I go to the trouble of sandblasting, as that may be way overkill. Steve |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 597 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 6:50 am: | |
I sure hate the thought of sandblasting anything,if ALL the sand is not cleaned out,it promotes rust,I would prefer wire brushing,......sand in ALL kinds of places where you did not want it,includeing air intake,....nasty stuff |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 7:17 am: | |
Steve, Bob's point should really be considered also, you will have no real control of the areas you send this sand at the speed and intensity it is shot. Granted, it will clean the metal but I assure you with Rustbullet it is not necessary to do. You may cause yourself a lot of engine damage and cake up the brake system etc. so please reconsider doing this for those reasons and if you do shot blast it, better have a can of some kind of primer ready to go because that nice new raw meterial will immediately recoat with rust faster than you can change TV channels. Get that test kit from Rustbullet and at the same time get a couple of the others products mentioned in this thread, make a few test trips of each but use rusty material to start with and the rusty-er the better, leave one side rusty and paint the other side, place in the worst area for wetness you can find. Try this, even bury them in an area after the paints are all dry in a small hole, fill with water and leave alone for a week or two. Get back to me after those results. This is a test I am sure not conducted by rustbullet themselves. No better way to test than the worst scenerio you can imagine. Do 3 coats of each brand. Do them all in the same conditions. Use safety precautions, gloves, safety glasses and respirator if you paint in a confined area of any kind. Let all the test strips dry before putting in a hole in the ground and bury. Ok, I believe we whipped this horse to death. Hope it all helps. I will watch for your test results, be sure to coat all corners the same as the flat areas. Gary |
Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16
Post Number: 310 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.224.189.5
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 9:01 am: | |
I purchased some Rust bullet, I pulled the old 8v71 this past week I'm going to get rid of the oil and grease then go to work in the engine compartment. I'll post some pictures of before and after! If it looks as good as Gary's I'll be satisfied! Pat http://prevostlemirage.blogspot.com/ |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 599 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 9:42 am: | |
nice lookin' craftmanship...I sure would rent a steam washer for the engine compartment |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 10:27 am: | |
Great looking work Muddog, here is another tip for removal of greas build up that may help in the future. Use a scrapper to get deep amounts of grease off the area to be cleaned for paint etc. Get a 1 gallon can of (WD40) and a plastic spray bottle to apply the WD40 right on the greasy areas left after scraping of the bulk stuff. Saturate all areas to be cleaned for painting etc. with the WD40, let it sit for about 10 minutes, saturate it again and let sit the same time about. Then either rub off with a cloth, paper towel or wash off with your pressure washer. Plan to wash this same surface with a spray bottle of (Dawn Dish Soap mix, maybe 2 0z. to a quart bottle of water, add the soap to the bottle last or it will foam all up and etc. Wash all areas twice for a good clean surface for painting. Let dry completely though first. TIP #1: Do all this cleaning in an area that you do not mind getting all greasy etc. and not on your nice clean driveway, it will be a real mess. TIP #2: Place a sheet of plastic under your bus before cleaning to catch most of the greasy stuff, this will help control the mess and you can roll it up after and throw the filthy plastic sheeting away. That was the reason I choose to do all my cleaning by hand with spray bottles only to control the mess but if you have an area that you don't care about by all means go for it if it will be easier for you. Good luck, you bus will be awesome, heck it is now. What did you do with your 8V71? I am looking for a spare for mine, (Just In Case) and hoping to find one in good shape for the amount of time I will be using mine. Good luck again, Gary |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 10:42 am: | |
Im kinda stupid when it comes to building my bus guys. Im not rich by anymeans, just cant seem to get my desires for perfection under control. But Im working on that as I end up spending way to much effort and money where I shouldnt. I only concidered sandblasting as I have a blaster of my own and since I use play sand its cheap and I have every Piece of sheet metal off the bus at the same time. I wasnt worrying about the sand issue staying as I can see straight through the bus. Picture an eagle with absolutely no sheet metal on it other than the roof. The power plant goes for a rebuild out of the bus similair to muddogs situation. Now given all this, what would you all do (to blast-or not to blast)??? Any opinions wecome here. Buy the way this pic to the left is inside in the mid dec right after I raised the roof. A lot has changed Since. Steve |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 115 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 10:56 am: | |
My vote, No blasting, scraping and painting only. No expense in elbow grease or wire brushing. What ever you think is right and good for you is all that matters, that is the only way I do thing on my Eagle so do the same and you will be happy too. Again, good luck. Gary |
Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16
Post Number: 311 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.224.243.62
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 11:05 am: | |
Many good idea's, I'm like Gary I want to control the mess I'm sure power washing would be the best but the mess is spread everywhere, so I will clean and scrape and I do agree I keep Dawn dishsoap in the shop its better than regular hand cleaner! As for the 8v71 its for sale, it ran great didn't smoke when pulled out but it has been sitting for two years and, its take it as it is! Thinking back I probably should have kept it in the bus, but my problem is I want it to be reliable, clean and functional! I'm sure there are many things that I have done that are over kill! When I went into this I realized I would be spending a considerable amount of time and money (the time thing I really missed)! Being able to do 95% of the work made it affordable for me, believe me if I was loaded I would have bought a ready made! I'm going at this just like I would restoring a street rod or collector car......its a challenge! Just don't expect to see this on the block at Barrett Jackson! Pat |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 11:34 am: | |
Yee Haw, no blasting, I hate it anyway, found sand in corners of the garage for a year after my last build out. Last week end I started to let the rust really start to depress me, UMMMMMMM I thought UUMMMMMMM, cover it up, off to the shop to borrow a stack of particle board for the floor, stopped at lowes, (100ft roll black plastic) and curtain draped all the walls. You woudnt beleive how quick it healed the blues. Guess, outa sight outa mind, really works! Bonus I can work in there without two pair of coveralls on as the salimander heater will run you outa there. Thanks Guys Steve |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 166 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 68.205.196.248
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 11:56 am: | |
Hmm... "Dawn Dish Soap"....... I thought for a minute that I opened to the Oprah website by mistake.... Seriously.... If you mix a spoon full of common table sugar in your palm, with a like amount of any liquid dish soap, you'll have what works better than "Go-Jo". It'll take any kind of grime or crud off your hands (including paint, etc), without doing any damage. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1808 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.87.155
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 7:20 pm: | |
I have found that WD-40 is a great hand cleaner also. Richard |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 116 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 7:24 pm: | |
You know we got to put a post up one day of these little tips so we can all get this experience of you guys with the longivity of being a true bus nut and all your little secrets. I did try to grind off a bare spot on my RustBullet test piece to satisfy Steve I believe and as you know this stuff is so hard now that the grinder had a time of doing it but I could not see any separation of materials to recognize anything going on but I believe it just encapsulated as the directions say it will do. You cannot peel this stuff off if that is what you may think. It's on there and no doubt very difficult to even chip from any road debris off tires. Muddog, on the 8v71, send me email and where you live also and maybe we can talk turkey on that engine. Do you have the engine preserved and sealed off in any way for protection of it and is it stored inside our outside? Mine may be alright but with my luck for the past 4 years being in the crapper, I can't think positive about nothing on my Eagle except I am in deep poop at times. Have a good Weekend, Gary |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 8:43 pm: | |
Gary, thanks for all the info. Im satisfied with your results, also I been reading the rust bullet website since I got home from work awhile ago. My only concern was applying it over rust and having the rust still active under it, and having major structural problems 10-20 years down the road as, Deb and I are planning to full time in 5 years and I really dont want to get in a pinch years later after weve burnt our retirement savings in diesel. Im goin to try to load a pic of what I hope to avoid: |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 8:52 pm: | |
Gary,notice the angle brace completely gone. Also the sill is about 90% deteriorated. I dont mind fixin all this now but with a finished interior I would think it would be a nightmare. This is typical of all areas above all 6 fenders. Ive worked my way through 2 of them now. That is thanks to you and Dave Galey. Anyway this is busin at its worst. Again thanks. Steve |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 117 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 10:26 pm: | |
Steve, with your frame exposed like it is you will have it so much easier to remove and replace any old stuff that the rust has eaten. Now this Rustbullet is good stuff but it does not add metal to what it is applied to, if your metal is rotted through in areas there is no doubt it has to be removed and replaced one piece at a time. Test all your areas of concern from your inspections by using a air chisel with a sort of sharp tool at the end. Let your air chisel take a rap for about 4-5 hits and then stop, if it is rotted out it will cave in like mine has in 90% of the areas I tested. Our living space cabin of our bus at this time is all done and will stay that way for some time before I remodel inside. I want to use this rig for a little while and have some fun, I hope. Don't let the Rust overwhelm you, start at one end, test it all in the corners and in the center of each piece, mark it with a marker good or bad. Then I recommend you use a grinder with cutting wheel to remove one piece at a time and reinstall the new piece completely before going on. Using a acetlyene cutting torch is alright but a mess to try to salvage and have clean areas to securely weld to, the grinder is slower but you can control what you are cutting out easier, it may be a little safer by not worrying about a fire etc. but again this is your choice of how you want to work. Just because I suggest something sure does not mean it is the best way to do anything, your ideas may be better and try keep thinking of new ways to to something your own way. Oh, be sure to have your bus securely sitting on blocks to control any warping from cutting out and welding in new material. You want to minimize any sagging or moving of your rig with all this rework. You don't have to show me rust, I have been nicknamed Rusty now because of my situation and all the rust I had but no more. As far as painting over the rust, please do not let this be your biggest worry, but removing rotted through metal discovered through your air chisel inspection has to be done, the Rustbullet can only stop surface rusting you may now have. I have been 4 years just replacing my undercarriage, that's a long time out of my life but want to enjoy my fruits one day soon like you do. Just got to keep plugging along and keeping focused. Email me anytime with problems I may be able to help you make a decision on for your framing, Keep us all informed of your progress. Gary |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 12:12 am: | |
Gary, dont get the wrong ideal about what im doing with the rust bullet. I have to replace 100% of both of my outside passenger and drivers walls, as im engineering 4 slideouts into them. Im rebuilding them with 2by4 and 3by ect. new steel to accomplish this. After looking at what I had to cut out for rust repair and what I had to do to install the slideouts, thats when I came to the conclusion that I might as well replace everything. That is why it is so important to me to get the rust under control, as I have some areas in the innercarriage of some concern. especially around my torsion springs.I know Im gettin close to rebuilding the whole frame but thats just the way things have fell into place. As far as the ole cutin torch goes, well let me put it this way. Ive been a professional cabinet maker for over 25 years and I havenot yet to use a chainsaw to build a cabinet.....lol.......I have a torch, outa gas, and havent seen the need to fill the tanks yet. Ive got 1 wall half done, no primer yet so my pics dont come out so good, you know how black new metal is, and all the tarps and black plastic block out the sun light. When I spray my temporary primer on in a couple of days, Ill get you guys some before and after pics of an eagle with some big ole slideout holes in it. My machinist is still working on my slides so my slideouts wont be goin in for a month or so yet. By the way Gary did you spray or brush your rust bullet on? Well be in touch, Steve |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 118 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.13
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 12:48 am: | |
Some coats were brushed and some sprayed. You get twice the coverage with spray on and easier also to apply. Some was brushed on as I would just dab it on to get coverage on new metal in particular so it would not start rusting right off and I just wanted some coverage while I continued to "Cut & Paste" the new stuff back on. Now when all the framing is done, I will be going around the areas not shot with 3 full coats and will do the complete framing all at the same time that did not get 3 coats as I moved along. I hope you are following what I am saying here. Note, is you choose to spray, you will need no smaller than a 1.8mm nozzle, I recommend a 2.0 if you can get one. If you try a nozzle any smaller than that you will be disappointed as the paint will not apply very well. Doing it as I did I suggested you get quart cans, and yes after cleaning your cans, and you are done for the day please remember to put a layer of (Saran Wrap) inside of the can to cover the rest you did not use as this will do much to preserve the remainder for some time. But if that can is not clean, forget it, you will have fun. If you are putting in those slide outs and changing the entire framing struture of the bus be sure that you got good metal in the support areas in particular. You have taken on a big undertaking there, hope you have some help at times. I look forward to your photos of our slide outs, I am just too old to get any more involved and do that to my bus,let my wife's next husband worry about it!! Time to go to bed. Gary |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1809 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.87.155
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 12:48 pm: | |
"Some was brushed on as I would just dab it on to get coverage on new metal in particular so it would not start rusting right off and I just wanted some coverage while I continued to "Cut & Paste" the new stuff back on" Gary, I thought it needed to be applied to rusty metal to perform properly? Richard |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 119 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 1:58 pm: | |
Richard, Rustbullet performs best on rusty metal for sure, I just did not want to work in anymore rust than necessary is the reason for using before it did rust. It will perform good on new metal but "BEST" on rusty stuff like Steve's and what I do not cut out on mine. My only suggetion on this is that it is not necessary to grind rusty metal clean to be as effective as on raw material that is new. 3 coats is necessary to have a guaranteed 10 year success of no rust. I certainly did not want to wait till she did rust but if it did I would of painted right over her. I just hate "Rust" with a passion you do not believe working in it or looking at it and it is better to photograph in pretty silver for my conversion CD and website. Just remember thanks to Richard catching this, that putting this on new metal is absolutely fine for all metals, putting it on Rusty metals is even better and will stop the rusting from continuing for a very long time. My goodness, this has got to be the longest time running thread I have seen, hope we have not lost any of you because of it but hope it helped in your decisions on this subject, especially Steve now but am sorry for the continuation of this, I think. Gary |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1810 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.87.155
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 3:26 pm: | |
Maybe I should try and get I@N's permission to copy it and past it in one of my Help topics on the other board. Or is that really asking too much? Richard |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 120 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 5:49 pm: | |
Richard, I am not sure of Ian's response, not sure what part of this thread in fact you want to salvage for "Help" section but what ever you need done I will do all necessary to assist. I am not sure this would be considered a help item but that is up to you guys. As I stated earlier today this thread went the length I have never seen before and hope it helped some and did not bore others. What ever I can do if you feel you want something I said or posted here let me know if I can assist. Gary |
Gary LaBombard (Garylee)
Registered Member Username: Garylee
Post Number: 121 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 5:54 pm: | |
Richard, I am not sure of Ian's response and not sure either of what part of this very lengthy thread is that you want to include on the "Help" section but what ever it is that I said or advised I do not have a problem with resubmiting it if it helps anyone. Feel free to ask me to assist in any way I can, and it sure isn't asking too much in any way. Gary |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1811 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.87.155
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 6:04 pm: | |
Guess you are right Gary. It would probably have to be completely re-done to be a good help topic. Ricahrd |
steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve
Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 7:53 pm: | |
Guys, Ill tell you what, this thread saved me at the very least, all the time it would have taken me to sandblast my frame. Ive been building rods for years and never concidered rust control like this, but Im sold. From past time notes Id say Ive saved at least 60 - 80 hours of work on the sandblasting. Im very greatfull. Thank all of you very much. Steve |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 603 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 8:20 pm: | |
GLAD....you are not sandblasting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EAGLE made a BAD mistake with the design of their window instalation (Message edited by bob greenwood on January 28, 2007) |