| Author | Message | ||
| Chuck Brush (Chuckbrush)
Registered Member Username: Chuckbrush Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 Rating: N/A |
Hi Busnuts, We are all over the place as to what sort of mileage to expect from our 671 in a TDM 4515. We know that the engine runs on all six cylinders and that's about it on condition. There are some hills between Tacoma Washington and Texas, does going up and down them make a large diference? We plan to travel at 50 MPH. Thanks, Chuck | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 604 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
expect 9 have you figured out a route yet..have you looked into getting a trip permit ? how close are you to DOING this..date ?? | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
expect 6 and if you do better be happy. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1812 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.87.155 Rating: N/A |
"does going up and down them make a large diference? " Absolutely. If you can figure out how to go down all the way your mileage will be excellent. Richard | ||
| Chuck Brush (Chuckbrush)
Registered Member Username: Chuckbrush Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 Rating: N/A |
have you figured out a route yet..have you looked into getting a trip permit ? how close are you to DOING this..date ?? Hi Bob, James has taken on the responsibility of figuring the route. He sent for a book, Mountain something, with all the grades listed for the West side of America. We requested he find a route with no steep grades, then Tom and I wanted to go down old route 66 for a bit. We thought we would try and stay off the interstates as we may be making unexpected stops. What is a trip permit? Hope it isn't some homeland security sort of thing. We are planning on the middle of May. Is that 9MPG average you think, or 9 in the hills and better on the flat? Chuck | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 605 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
the 4104's get 10....a trip permit is to get you home (takes the place of license plates,have you asked if has current registration ? about the only way for you to get here from there to here is I-84 & that has cabbage hill...WHEEW...bad hill..the really mellow way would be down I-5to I-8 to I-10...but that's about 300 miles more,before you can get a trip permit,you have to get insurance | ||
| steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225 Rating: N/A |
Chuck, sounds like you guys are glutten for punishment.......lol........Ole bus .....mountains.....no interstates.....uhhhhh...are you guys trying to make sure you brake down? .... Id have to say the side roads are pretty rough traveling in an unknown bus. I mean they grades are most likely goin to be steeper off of the limited access highways. Month of May, Id say youd be alright, heck the worst youd have to do is push the ole bus off in a mountain side and hitch home.......lol.......Good Luck to all of you........I expect well be seeing a movie about this one.........I hope the starring role is played by mcgyver and not freddy crouger.......You guys have fun with it.....Steve and Deb | ||
| Chuck Brush (Chuckbrush)
Registered Member Username: Chuckbrush Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 Rating: N/A |
I've been told we can get plates in Washington. I should double check that. It has plates on it but they are expired. I have AAA and thought I would get RV coverage. I'll check into the Permit. I see the making of a perfect catch 22 where you need insurance to get a permit and a title to get insurance. Stuff like that happens a lot here in Texas. I don't like the idea of driving around on paper plates. Too conspicuous. I had a bit of trouble one time driving on temporary tags from Illinois in Vermont. I remember the officer pointing out the easiest way to leave his state. Chuck | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 606 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
I don't think you can get wash. plates unless you are a wash. resident AAA .....SUCKS....big time...expect them to NOT show-up....I canceled them & they STILL drew money out of my accout for two years after I canceled, only way I could stop that,I got a new card,with a different number... | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 78 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
Bob, Calling for 9 on a bus with an unknown condition motor is very optimistic. if it is worn out it will get 6 or so....I would plan on the 6 as a trip average. also who knows what that thing has for rear end gears get a binder from your insurance company thats all you will need and I am sure Wash has temp tags. | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 79 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
Just noticed....TDM......likey has low gearing. I would deffinitley go with the 6.....might get worse | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 607 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
yeah...you guys are right,I don't think it's geared for hiway,who knows, this is going to be SOMETHING.....bet if he took a good film crew, he could probably sell this to somebody. AND, you are also correct about the temp. license, I was thinking of what you'd have to do to get a big truck from there to here...this ,is a motorhome.seems like when I got a temporary permit onetime ,they wanted to know the EXACT route I would be takeing,anybody else experience this ??? (Message edited by bob greenwood on January 29, 2007) | ||
| Duane Bratvold (Connieandduane)
Registered Member Username: Connieandduane Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 205.242.83.12 Rating: N/A |
IN Washington you at one time could get a 5 day trip permit, now they only offer a 3 day. They used to leave it blank and most people never filled it in. Now you have to show what three days you are traveling. I will check with DMV today to see if another trip permit is offered for extended trips. The cost of the permit is $14.00 and you need a copy of the registration. If you get a copy of the registration you may be able to get a temp from your state. Not sure. I will check with WA. and let you know. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1084 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.166.205.68 Rating: N/A |
HISTORY is being made! Bob Greenwood said, "yeah...you guys are right..."  | ||
| Steve Daniels (Steve_1)
Registered Member Username: Steve_1 Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 69.238.95.74 Rating: N/A |
Another route idea would be south on I-5 to Bakersfield Ca., then east on route 58 to Barstow where you can get on I-40 east. The rest is easy. Steve | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 70 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.154 Rating: N/A |
I-5 goes about 30 miles West of Bakersfield, so take 99 South from Sacramento, then 58 East. This will save you about 40 miles, and there are many more towns and truck stops on 99 between Sacto and Bakersfield. If you make it out of Grant's Pass Oregon, thru the Cascades, the little climb paralleling the railroad from Bealville to Tehachapi will be nothing. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 71 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.80.150 Rating: N/A |
One more piece of advice! DESCEND a hill in the same gear you ASCENDED it in! There is a little fault in this logic, in that you may have climbed the other side of the hill two hours ago, and driven many miles on the flat, before coming to the downgrade. Descending in the same gear means AT THE SAME SPEED! Be also aware that there is essentially NO compression braking from a diesel engine. From the posted pictures, this bus does not appear to be equipped with Jake brakes. Good luck, you are going to need it. George | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 72 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.154 Rating: N/A |
Bob is in Texas where it is flat! I-5 to I-8 to I-10 isn't mellow. The Grapevine is between the hiway 58 turnoff mentioned above, and Los Angeles. The Northbound side (which you would have to climb) has a 35 mph truck speed limit, and a runaway ramp, which was lengthened a couple of years ago after a runaway went over the END of it and killed a hitchhiking couple. The downhill side is slightly less steep, the truck speed is 40. I-8 from San Diego to Coyote Wells is up and right back down. I have ridden in the Coyote Wells fire truck, (a gas engine Ford, with 500 gal. of water, and air brakes) which handles vehicle accidents on the East side of the pass. There is a placque on the dash with specific instructions for descending the grade, which include "25 mph max, in second gear high range." IMHO, neither I-5 over the Grapevine, nor I-8 are mellow. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 609 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
well he will be going UP....not down | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Registered Member Username: Ceieio Post Number: 281 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 206.212.230.165 Rating: N/A |
Chuck - Cabbage hill on I-84 seems easier than I-5 through Southern Oregon to me. You tend to go up and down a lot more on the I-5 route. Living here, I have taken my bus over both and I think I-84 is easier. That being said, it is a heck of a hill... last August I had my MC7 down to 25 for portions of it (watching the temps close too). Another option would be to take I-84 east to Biggs and take 97 (you can get to 97 via 197 in The Dalles, but you have the Tygh grade and the Criterion highway hills out of Maupin that way). Taking 97 makes a long but more gradual climb out of the Columbia River Gorge. 97 will shoot on down toward Klamath Falls and you can either head toward Bakersfield and highway 99, or take the cut through Nevada and get on down to the interstate running east. This is mostly two lane, but I have had my bus on it and it is usually lightly traveled and it is a road you can maintain speed on (once you make the high desert climb anyway). Good luck! Craig - MC7 Oregon (Message edited by ceieio on January 30, 2007) | ||
| Chuck Brush (Chuckbrush)
Registered Member Username: Chuckbrush Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 205.188.112.52 Rating: |
Permits are, in Texas, two for $10.00. Evidently each one is good for 15 days. To get a permit, (or two) one only needs to have proof of insurance, the vin number, and a description of three routes to be taken. I was told the inspection to get a Washington State title is done by a fellow who is backed up for two months to get an appointment. I think we might just get an Alabama title over the phone. I don't know about going down "the grapevine" it sounds as bad as a place in New York called "the bucket of worms". I had to think about the reason diesels don't supply a lot of engine brake. Is it because they don't have any throttle plate, ie. no vacuum. Without fuel the engine is like one big air spring with the only losses being friction, the blower, accesories, and the fan. Chuck | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 620 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
again... the route south on I-5 you won't be going DOWN grapevine, you will be going UP grapevine | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 168 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 68.205.196.248 Rating: N/A |
"the reason diesels don't supply a lot of engine brake" Say what?? | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1040 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.69.234 Rating: N/A |
John, a prior poster got that all wrong. I've seen the same argument made over on the alt.rv newsgroup, too. I think that diesels supply a lot of drag when used under compression! Just goes to show ya! Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Kent Dilg (Azure)
Registered Member Username: Azure Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 70.11.10.163 Rating: N/A |
Hi y'all, I'm a new member and new owner of a '57 PD-4104. I just made the I-5 run from Ashland, Oregon to I-10 (in Baton Rouge tonight). The down hill run out of the Cascade's was thrilling, and I've got a Jake. The valley's a breeze with enough hills to keep things interesting, but the grapevine kicked my butt badly. I lost both right drive tires a couple of miles up. It looks like I'm in the 7/8 mpg range running the 6V. It's an awesome tripp, I hope you guys enjoy it!! | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 630 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
you have a 6v?? | ||
| Kent Dilg (Azure)
Registered Member Username: Azure Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 68.243.156.40 Rating: N/A |
I think that's right, still learning. It's a supercharged(?) straight 6.... | ||
| Jim Wilke (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 113 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.151.82 Rating: N/A |
Kent, you have a 6-71, not a 6V71. The 4104s all had the inline engine. This is a tiny but important point & the guys here will always help educate either by providing the correct answer or by "busting your chops" as they say in the New York, Jersey area. The 6V came along in the 60's I believe, the inline 6 was the original WWII workhorse. Many old Detroit guys will tell you that the inline engines have more torque (given equal HP settings). They also have much bigger rod bearings because the V engines have two rods per crank journal. The 4104s are sluggish but valiant hill climbers. The original engines (2 valve heads, original injectors) had only 170 HP per the books. Later 6-71s were about 240HP. You get up the hill, but it will be in second all the way & maybe 1st! Just keep the revs up to where she's screamin'. You have to drive the '04 like the truckers used to drive 25-30 years ago, before they all got the 500HP 4 strokes. You race down one hill so you can get to the top of the next hill. This is challenging in traffic! Jim-Bob | ||
| Kent Dilg (Azure)
Registered Member Username: Azure Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 70.11.0.113 Rating: N/A |
Heheheh, I've no issue with folks bustin' my chops a bit, I'm greatfull for the education. I love this bus and want to do right by her...which means knowledge on my part. Responsible ownership of a vintage vehicle also means I've got a steep learning curve. Thanks a lot for the info!! Spot on with regard to the hill climbing, I was telling a friend that the bus doesn't really accelerate, it just gathers momentum until she hits her sweet spot for the day. But heaven forbid I have to lift off the pedal, or even worse brake. Back to the thread....sorry for the detour | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.8 Rating: N/A |
Can anyone tell me about what year they switched from the 2 valve head to the 4 valve head? Is that the only change that accounted for the increase in horse power? TIA | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.154 Rating: N/A |
I would like to explain the comments on engine braking above. A GASOLINE engine with either a carburetor, or fuel injection has a throttle valve. When closed, the intake manifold is under vacuum, so on the intake stroke, energy is used to pull the piston down against the vacuum. On the compression stroke, there is essentially nothing in the cylinder, so the only retarding effort generated is by friction. On the power stroke, STILL ESSENTIALLY NO PRESSURE IN THE CYLINDER, so friction again only. On the exhaust stroke, exhaust valve open, empty cylinder, just friction again. So, BESIDES ITS FRICTION, a GASOLINE engine provides the additional braking effort of having to pull the piston down against a vacuum. I guess one could argue, (considering what I am going to say next) that a little of the effort would be lost because the cylinder would be under vacuum and help pull the piston up for the first small part of the stroke, but that's splitting hairs. A diesel engine, (either 2 or 4 stroke) has no intake restriction. So, on the intake stroke the piston pulls in a full cylinder of air easily. A LOT of energy is consumed compressing it on the power stroke, BUT, the SAME AMOUNT of energy is put back by the compressed air in the cylinder pushing the piston down. Exhaust valve opens, piston pushes air out easily, NOTHING BUT FRICTION LOSS. 2 or 4 cycle doesn't matter. NOW, what does Jake brake DO? Piston pulls in a cylinder full of air easily on the intake stroke, a lot of energy is consumed compressing it on the compression stroke, (4 cycle) and at essentially top center, on a signal from the fuel injector cam, the Jake equipment opens the exhaust valve and dumps all the pressurized air into the exhaust manifold. This is why the noise, and now the piston has to be pulled down by the kinetic energy of the bus. The same thing happens in a two cycle, only twice as often, and with not quite as much effect per stroke. Exhaust brakes on pickups are just a valve in the exhaust pipe. They work by pressurizing the exhaust manifold, and making the piston work on the exhaust stroke to push the air out under pressure. As the exhaust valve closes at the top of the stroke, and the intake opens, no pressure is re-invested in pushing the piston down. They are also much quieter. Chuck's last paragraph in his post above is EXACTLY correct, and he said it in a whole lot less words! HTH, George | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.154 Rating: N/A |
Please don't kill me! 2nd paragraph should have read: A lot of energy is consumed compressing it on the COMPRESSION stroke, with the same energy being put back on the POWER stroke! Bob, how does Chuck only go up? (It IS downhill from Tejon Summit {4417 feet} to Castaic.) LA and San Diego are essentially Sea Level. Crestwood Summit on I-8 shows 4190 feet on my AAA map, and I-8 then runs around the Salton Sea, which shows to be 228 feet BELOW Sea Level! | ||
| Kent Dilg (Azure)
Registered Member Username: Azure Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 68.243.203.24 Rating: N/A |
Ok, 2 cents on the power stroke of the gas engine. You're still pulling against a vacuum....nothing to compress from the intake stroke and no charge to expand and create the power (ok, maybe some residual, but not enough to make a diff). So you get friction and vacuum sucking energy every other rotation. I had no idea of how different diesel were. Great stuff, thanks! | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: N/A |
I've heard the theory that diesel engines give less braking than gas expressed a couple ways. 1. Diesel has high compression and and pushes back down on the piston with the same force so not much braking. Gas engine has less compression so less force pushing the piston down.----- If this was true a engine with no compression would hold back even more, right? The diesel converts more of the compression/energy to heat that is carried away by the cooling system. 2. Diesel has no throttle plate and does not have to suck against a vacuum.----- But a gas engine if sucking against a vacuum has nothing to compress. Direct comparison. I have driven many 5.7 gas engine equipped GM products. I have been the proud owner of several GM 5.7 Diesel equipped cars. They all, the diesel engines that is, exhibited more compression braking that the gas ones of the same displacement. Huge difference, no. Diesel engines of the same size seem to give better compression braking. What about bigger diesels? Have spent time herding 11 liter or so trucks up and down hills that seem to hold back just fine considering the weight they were trying to hold back. Have not driven 11 Liter gas engines but would like to. PS The boys following me North on I5 from Grants Pass said they were on the brakes of the Suburban more than I was with an unjaked 8V71 in the 4107 going over those little bumps in Southern Or. (Message edited by Doninwa on February 02, 2007) | ||
| Chuck Brush (Chuckbrush)
Registered Member Username: Chuckbrush Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 205.188.116.13 Rating: N/A |
I have to think that it must take a lot of energy for a Detroit two stroke to blow all that air through the engine, through all those little port holes and out past a bunch of relatively small valves (on the four valve ones)and into the exhaust pipe. I would think that the blower would be the biggest drag on the whole engine. Can anyone venture a guess as to how much our 4515 weighs? I haven't heard anyone say that busses are hard to stop. What is the drill on using the brakes, and Kent, what happened to those two tires going down the grapevine? Did they get hot from the brakes? Chuck | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
I beleive I mentioned NOT Stopping in another thread. I would not drive that thing any further than the first truck repair shop with a pit to have them inspect and adjust the brakes. buses stop slowly and incorrect braking ona hill can cause brake failure, brake fires, tire fires. | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Chuck' Think you gotta run I84 and pull Cabbage. Be sure to use the canyon road between Ellensburg and Yakima. Since your ride has sat for some time, I'm very concerned about the brake diaphrams. They are not hard to check, just hold your foot on the floor and listen to each air can for air loss. Also one of you must know how to adjust manual slack adjusters, you don't want to die in this thing. If you don't know brakes I will donate a couple hours before you leave as I live nearby. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 636 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
Chuck... would 'guess' your 'new' bus weighs 20,000 | ||
| Dale Houston (Songman)
Registered Member Username: Songman Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 70.92.99.202 Rating: N/A |
Since Bakersfield has been mentioned a couple of times, let me chime in since I live there and have local knowledge. The difference From Sacramento to Bakersfield using either Hwy 99 or I-5 is just under 3 miles, not 40 miles difference. And I-5 is actually only about 15 miles West of Bakersfield. I live in SW Bakersfield and I-5 is exactly 10 miles from my house. It is true that there are a lot more towns on Hwy 99 in case you have trouble. But with more towns there is also a lot more traffic to slow you down and hassle you. I generally opt for the 5 unless I have to make a stop somewhere along 99. If you come down either the 5 or the 99 and take the 58 East, you don't have to worry about the Grapevine. You turn before you get to the Grapevine. (But if you do decide to go down to I-10 you'll have to go UP AND DOWN the Grapevine. It does have two sides and, especially now with all the construction, they are both hazardous.) By coming South to Bakersfield and then turning East to I-40 you'll add just over 200 miles to your trip but it would be worth it in my opinion. That is how I always go when heading East. As mentioned, the little range on the way to Tehachapi is nothing. And especially if you want to see some of Route 66, I-40 is the way to go since they are basically the same footprint. Good luck on your trip. (Message edited by Songman on February 04, 2007) | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 89 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
what are they doing to the grapevine? I worked at the top of the grapevine for 6 years | ||
| Kent Dilg (Azure)
Registered Member Username: Azure Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 68.243.159.136 Rating: N/A |
I don't recall construction through the grapevine, but then, I was pretty focused on my speed and lane space (new driver). Chuck, my tires blew on the way up and presented less drama than might be expected, though a serious pain in my butt, no doubt. When the right outside went, it knocked my beautiful chrome cover off, taking with it the air hose connected to the inner tire. The slow deflation of the inner allowed me control to safely move as far as I could out of the travel lanes. I don't know what what caused it, but it wasn't the downhill ride. Coming back down the grapevine was really no problem for me, I had the Jakes on in third gear and just flowed on down out of the mountains. I think I actually got on the brakes less than a half dozen times. I've got some pics up on flickr (address in my profile - some of my stuff is NOT kid safe but you can download most anything) | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Well, there is the only reason I'll ever need not to run equalizers between my duals. Never could figure out why someone would spend good money for something like that. Geez they will probably try golf balls inside e'm next. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.80.150 Rating: N/A |
Dale, Please do me a favor, and read my post again closely. I agree 100% that the difference in mileage between Sacramento and the junction of I-5 and 99 South of Bakersfield is 3 miles. But please look at the mileage from the junction of I-5 and 58 at "Buttonwillow," to the junction of 99 and 58 in Downtown Bakersfield, and add 3, it might only be 30, but 99 from Sac. is a whole lot less than I-5. Please also be aware that my post was in response to a suggestion to "take I-5 to Bakersfield, and then go East on 58." Then another to continue on the Grapevine to LA, then South to San Diego and East on I-8 "because it is mellow."? Thank you for seconding my comments on the easy grade from Bakersfield to Needles also. Are you aware of what "they" are driving? As long as this is viewed as an adventure, and they bring lots of food and water in ice chests, sleeping bags with thick foam pads, a porta potti, and tools, and do it before it gets hot, it might not be too bad. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 648 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
they can't haul all that stuff on the plane up there George,plus,what would they do with it if the bus thinks 50 miles is just far enough | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 79 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.154 Rating: N/A |
Hey Bob, I hear you! What if it thinks its had enough already? I think there are Walmarts in Washington, and besides, what are they going to do while waiting for the tow? 2000 miles in a $560 bus?!?! About the only difference between them and me is that I paid more for a BIGGER piece of junk, and only had to drive it about 300 miles to a place where I could fix it. (Please don't tell it what I called it.) My 6 was in charter service from LA to Lost Wages when they decided to sell it. The bus broker won't let you drive the bus, but they will take you for a ride. The first time he went to stop, his toe went to the floor, and we eased up right behind a car. After that, he left LOTS of space to the car ahead. They use an alley to re-enter their yard, with one gutter in the middle. It had been raining, and we went right by their driveway. Nobody behind, so he backed up. Turns out the right drive slack adjuster was broken, so the piston just went to the end of the stroke and didn't apply any service or emergency brake. The yoke was missing on the right tag, so that brake didn't work either. Rusty drum and brand new shoes. Left tag oil seal leaking, drum and shoes oily-no friction. Not to mention a wiring error kept the ENTIRE dash from working-NO low air lights or buzzers, no speedo, etc. This bus was in regular service over Cajon Pass and the Baker Grade until they decided to sell it. Where's the highway patrol when you need them? The bus co's answer to poor stopping was to turn the compressor governor up to 155 pounds... Somebody has published the brake diaphragm leak test method of listening for a hissing sound with the brakes applied... What are you supposed to do when it hisses with the brakes released? At idle, the leak rate equalled the compressor output at about 75 pounds. Enough of the war stories, we are all waiting to see what happens, or doesn't? It is kinda fun poking fun at them, hope they don't mind! Geo | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Geo Thats a great question about that hissing sound with the brakes released. I don't know the senario as it relates to a DD3. I think DD3s may have been made for just this reason. If you have a maxi can that leaks with the brakes released, you must put your coach out of service on the spot until its fixed. That air you hear is supposed to be equalizing the spring. As it is leaking off the spring is uncoiling and applying the brake shoe to the drum without your knowledge. If you drive it you will burn it. On a semi truck you will have airflow, see smoke and stop.The bus will burn to the ground. Once the tires catch fire, its all over. Change your maxi cans about every 3 years if you don't drive your bus alot. New maxi cans do not have replaceable emergency side diaphrams. I've heard in the old days DOT disallowed maxicans for these reasons in passenger service and that is why we have DD3s. | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Geo Thats a great question about that hissing sound with the brakes released. I don't know the senario as it relates to a DD3. I think DD3s may have been made for just this reason. If you have a maxi can that leaks with the brakes released, you must put your coach out of service on the spot until its fixed. That air you hear is supposed to be equalizing the spring. As it is leaking off the spring is uncoiling and applying the brake shoe to the drum without your knowledge. If you drive it you will burn it. On a semi truck you will have airflow, see smoke and stop.The bus will burn to the ground. Once the tires catch fire, its all over. Change your maxi cans about every 3 years if you don't drive your bus alot. New maxi cans do not have replaceable emergency side diaphrams. I've heard in the old days DOT disallowed maxicans for these reasons in passenger service and that is why we have DD3s. | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Geo, If it hisses with the brakes released, its the emergency side diaphram. You have to replace the entire piggyback. Your bus is also out of service. The air you hear is supposed to be pushing on the emergency spring to release the park brake. This blown diaphram will start your coach on fire as the spring applies the brake without your knowledge, the drum gets cherry red and the tires catch on fire. I believe a DD3 was DOT mandate in the old days for passenger service due to this flaw in the maxi can system. Change maxi cans every few years and check them often. | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Heck I may as well do it again! Guess I'm tired! | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 81 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.154 Rating: N/A |
Hello Larry, The bus is DD3's, and the only line charged in them with the brakes released is the "latch" "dog" "ratchet" or whatever you want to call the mechanical lock that keeps the brakes mechanically applied without pressure. What I was getting at, AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, is the bus SHOULD have been out of service for air leaks. From the wear pattern on the working brake shoes, versus the non-working shoes, this bus had been driven for MONTHS with only 3 brakes working instead of 6! The hissing got louder with the service brake pedal depressed, due to a leaking diaphragm. After a slack adjuster arm on the right drive, a yoke on the right tag, a grease seal and about 5 cans of brake cleaner on the left tag, and a DD3 rebuild kit, the bus stops well.. Why they didn't have a runaway is beyond me. As posted above, we went at least a hundred feet beyond the driveway we were going to turn into, and this was the lot we had just left, there was no surprise. The left drive, and left front were in the water, which only left the right front brake working. | ||
| Dale Houston (Songman)
Registered Member Username: Songman Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 70.92.99.202 Rating: N/A |
Hey George, sorry if I sounded like I was picking on anyone. Not intended that way. Just putting out local experience. I agree with all you said. The only thing I would add is that I would never take 58 at Buttonwillow. If you go on down to the Stockdale Highway exit and take a right you have a nice straight shot ofroad all the way to 58 without all the turns and only a small area where traffic might be an issue. At Real Road, you pop right back on 58 at the interstate portion and from there it is a breeze. Personally, I just hate the 99 and never drive it unless I have to, even in a car! I-5 is just such a better road and without so much traffic that it is just a more pleasant trip for me. Someone asked about the construction on the Grapevine. They are still doing repairs and upgrades from all the slides they had last year. Of course, the fires keep slowing them down. And you know, the weather has been particularly cold and snowy out here this year. I came across the Grapevine this evening on my way back from Ventura. They are even working at night under big lights on the southbound side just north of Castaic. |
