| Author | Message | ||
| John D. (John_d)
Registered Member Username: John_d Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 204.13.236.244 Rating: N/A |
With about a year now in a Mercedes diesel on the highways, I find myself dreaming of a small, older diesel-pusher bus with high ground clearance and a whole lot of windows to road in. Initial research quickly led to the absolutely beautiful Blue Bird ex-school bus models, with which I am totally enamoured (I even love the name), but the few pushers I've found are all very long. There are diesel "shortbus" school buses, but they're all conventional -- I'm specifically hoping to find a pusher. What's the shortest diesel-pusher I might wish to find? What makes/models should I be looking for? What's the shortest pusher you've come across? Any help's much appreciated! | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 86 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
if your looking for ground clearance you will be looking for a school bus. schoolies are made on med duty truck chassis......so get one and make it as short as you want. if you don't care about ground clearances. Gm made fishbowls in 30 foot loenghts, and the RTS is modular construction so you can shorten it in 5 foot increments rather easily | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Registered Member Username: Cowlitzcoach Post Number: 131 Registered: 4-2001 Posted From: 204.245.250.6 Rating: N/A |
Pusher type school buses are referred to in the business as Type 'D' buses and the buses with the nose stuck out in front are referred to as Type 'C' buses. Having said that, the reason why you will find few, if any, short Type 'D' buses is the cost of the buses when brand new. Most rear engine school buses cost 10-20% more than the identical bus with the engine in front. Why it costs more I have no idea. You will find some short Type 'D' front engine buses, most of which were used in special needs transportation and will usually have a lift. The shortest Type 'D' buses I have ever seen were 30' long. Of the ones I have personally seen, all of them were built before 1970. The ones I have personally seen were built by Gillig, one that was a Carpenter on a GMC chassis, and I have seen pictures of a 30'Crown Supercoach. I have never seen a Blue Bird All American RE(their Type 'D' rear engine bus) that was shorter than 35'. If you really are into a rear engine bus that isn't very long I think the only kind of bus you will find that meets those spec'c's would be a transit bus. Both GM and Flxible made them. You can view a really nice example of one at the Bus Transportation Musuem website. Good luck. Mark O. Castle Rock, WA | ||
| Chuck Lott (Chuckmc8)
Registered Member Username: Chuckmc8 Post Number: 200 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 68.215.216.197 Rating: N/A |
How about a VW bus for the shortest pusher? But, Its not a diesel......;-) | ||
| sylverstone (Sylverstone_pd4501864)
Registered Member Username: Sylverstone_pd4501864 Post Number: 264 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 216.173.223.253 Rating: N/A |
some of the vanagons are  -dd | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.214.232.100 Rating: N/A |
I believe that GM made a few 30 ft. 4106's. I think that Horizon Coach in Arcdia Fl. has one for sale. | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 129 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200 Rating: N/A |
I realize that Vanagons are not on topic...but, just in the unlikely event someone really wants one, may I say that Vanagons are not the answer for anything. Been there and done that. The Wasserboxers were (are) crap. I converted mine to a Subaru...perfect..enginewise. A couple of rainy days will convince "normal" folk that a Vanagon ain't the solution to anything. When it rains, you cannot leave the sliding door open...due to the oddball Westie roof design, the awning is worse than useless...it ducts water onto the lower bed. I had a "Subegon" and it was a great little vehicle as long as you were "day" camping. Not at all ideal for even a long weekend...IMHO...of course, I believe a 40' bus is just about right. The newer front engine VWs are better, but lack "hippie" cool. Bummer. Kennedy Engineering offers conversions for installing diesels in place of boxers (Audi, VW), and and there were OEM Vanagon Diesels in other markets. Sorta like a Crown Cummins...all tilted over. A Vanagon would make a decent toad, but they are not lighweight. A Westie is a little over 4K lbs. Regarding an off-road bus, what about a Crown? It ain't exactly a pusher, but it isn't front engine...not exactly...either. They have good ground clearance. May find a twin-screw for REAL off road performance. Old Flexibles have good ground clearance too. Dave Lang's Starliner has room to walk under. Not all of the shortest Bluebirds are pushers...they use a short version of "snub-nose" around here, but I believe the engine is located in the front...they got a big dog-house inside the front...they are diesel powered. Good luck on your bus short pusher! Have you considered an RV? They offer 30' pushers. How about a dog-nose skoolie with 4WD...that would be interesting! Cheers, JR | ||
| John D. (John_d)
Registered Member Username: John_d Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 88.198.9.16 Rating: N/A |
30'+ is definitely too long, so I guess I'll abandon notions of a Type 'D'. I did come across a very few of the "snub-nose" medium-duty truck chassis short buses in my searches, and now it's looking like they're the perfect model. There's one on eBay right now, but looks like it's been rusting away neglected for too long. The two or so snub-noses I've found at dealers' pages are Thompson bodied; if Blue Bird ever made a model on this type of chassis, I'll hold out until I can find one of them. Off topic, I'd at first checked out VWs too. The Vanagons really do seem heavy for their size, cramped, and a little flawed in their overcomplexity. As well, the cost of converting a simpler and better looking "bay window" to diesel is more dough and mechanical skill than I'm able -- and would still be cramped. They look great for short jaunts, especially on rough roads, but haven't the space needed for this application. Thanks for all the help and info, everyone! | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 131 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200 Rating: N/A |
Sounds like a Sportsmobile Camper would work for you. They are essentially van conversions, with very nice RV appointments, 4X4, and they are short...the length of an extended or standard full sized van. Ford version is available with a Diesel. They are great for off-road jaunts. Maybe you could import one of those little Euro buses. They have 20-25' pushers in Europe and Asia. With a little creativity, and a good truck frame guy, a Bluebird skoolie pusher could be shortened to your specs. It could be done in your backyard....if zoning and neighbors will tolerate such. You would need a level concret area to work on. The only critical operation would be rewelding the frame sections. Truck frames are commonly extended and shortened as need presents. Shortening a Bluebird skoolie would be a good bit of work, but it wouldn't be expensive...beyond gratuities for the welder. Someone can confirm this thought, but early Bluebirds were assembled with repeating panels, which would be easy to disassemble and reassemble. Early Bluebirds are not all pushers...and later Bluebirds have one piece siding..which would be a bit more work...still doable. Back to the game! JR Good Luck, JR | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 4.235.252.15 Rating: N/A |
Bluebird makes a rear engine short commuter usually used by car rental companies for airport shuttles. Many have been sold on ebay. | ||
| Steveggt (Steveggt)
Registered Member Username: Steveggt Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 71.116.87.220 Rating: N/A |
Hi John, You've received a lot of great advice! Since you're looking for something less than 30', I'll go from there. GM made 30' "fishbowls" but they were made with lighter materials than their 35 and 40' counterparts. There were a few "cutdown" 4106's, but you have to consider that, with the shorter wheelbase, there was less weight on the front axle...but they're definitely fast! If you like the RTS, their 30' model might work. As <tekebird> indicated, you could even purchase a 35' and remove 1 (or a 40' and remove 2) of the modular 5-foot sections. As much as I love transit and highway buses, especially GM (I recently sold my 40' GM fishbowl and got a 35' highway "buffalo"), I find myself recommending school buses more often. Schoolies almost always have less mileage than a transit bus...I typically see transits with around 750k-1mil miles when they're sold...and highway bus mileage can easily be into the millions! Another thing to consider is that school buses are built to very stringent specifications, especially in the "safety" department. I was quite impressed with Crowns' structural rigidity and overall strenth! Also, the school district is required to keep all records of inspections and maintenance. Interestingly, school buses can often be purchased for very reasonable prices! As an aside, I recently helped a buddy inspect a Crown school bus that was owned/operated by only one school district. They had several for sale, and we got the "best" of the lot for about $2,500...and drove it home. The bus had a 6-71 turbo with the Eaton 10-speed Roadranger. I fly into/out of San Francisco and Oakland quite regularly, and as <dougg> indicated, a lot of car rental companies use medium-duty (18-15) pushers for their shuttles. Now that I think about it, my city's school district operates some short diesel pushers. I think their smallest is around 26'. If I hear about a sale, I'll let you know. Good luck buddy! - Steve | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.136.90.146 Rating: N/A |
here you go....this has got to be a 25 foot RTS http://www.classicbusdepot.com/bus-photos/97_0_1_0_C/ | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Registered Member Username: Cowlitzcoach Post Number: 132 Registered: 4-2001 Posted From: 204.245.250.47 Rating: N/A |
In my experience, when you get shorter than 30' in length one of two things happen. In the first case, if the suspension is identical to what is found in longer buses, the ride becomes rather choppy. In the second case, the suspension is really downrated and in more cases than not, the GVW is almost identical to the GVWR. The ride smoothes out however. I suppose the bottom line is for you to figure out what exactly you want to do with your rig and where you want to do it. There is a vast difference in the interior volume between a Vanagon and the smallest Type 'C' bus. There is also a vast difference in driveability between a Vanagon and the smallest Type 'C' bus. Only you can decide for sure what is best for you. Good luck and happy trails. Mark O. Castle Rock, WA | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 60 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.108 Rating: N/A |
Hey, Mark.....welcome "back".... RCB '64 Crown Supercoach (HWC) | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 4.235.252.25 Rating: N/A |
Check out stallionbus.com. They are a chinese body on a freightline chassis that comes in 3 sizes. Thomas Bus in Winter Garden, Fl. carries them. (Just a few miles down the road from ABC Bus, the Van Hool dealer. Lots of big beauties there!) | ||
| John D. (John_d)
Registered Member Username: John_d Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 69.108.165.173 Rating: N/A |
I've found a few shuttles, and they look very promising! I'd been overlooking the shuttle sections at dealers, assuming they'd all be on cutaway van chassis. Now it looks like the perfect model might not be a "skoolie" at all, but a shuttle or short transit! The Orion I (30') looks very cool, any caveats? The Stallion looks pretty nice, too -- if not a bit out of the ol' price range! Steve: That'd be great! Thanks! | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
If you are getting a transit bus, they come in three standard lengths, 30',35', and 40' which sometimes vary by a foot or two.The widths are 96" and 102". Generally speaking if a bus is under 30' in length it is not a heavy duty bus. The major manufacturers of heavy-duty transit buses are still in business in the US are New Flyer, Orion, Gillig, and I think Neoplan is still finishing orders but going out of business. There is also NABI but I strongly do not recommend anything from that builder. Blue Bird now on the other hand, primarily a school bus manufacturer, is known mostly as a body maker. They have transit buses and coaches too, but their transit buses are something to steer away from.They are body on chassis rather than integral construction. If you like the Orion I, also check out the TMC Citycruiser T-30 which was built under liscence by Orion as pretty much the same bus, they are great buses, and the Orion was built in all three of the major lengths. They no longer produce those buses but you can still get parts without a problem. |