| Author |
Message |
brian h. skinner (Henley)
Registered Member
Username: Henley
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 24.144.107.111
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:54 pm: | |
1989 eagle 20 park brake does not always want to release |
larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member
Username: Larryc
Post Number: 28
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 207.200.116.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:06 am: | |
Brian, I've got the same coach.This unit seems to like topped off air supply as well as a long pedal visit to the floor board (20-30 seconds). There are 2 brake lites on the dash. The one to the right of the steering wheel is brake application. The one by your left knee is on, (lit up) when the park brake is not released. The DD3 system a lot of us have experience with releases with less pedal and shorter duration of pedal application. |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member
Username: Rv_safetyman
Post Number: 247
Registered: 1-2004
Posted From: 67.142.130.33
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:22 am: | |
Larry, I am not familiar with the Eagle 20, but Eagle 10s have spring brakes and not DD3. It is possible that some buyers specified DD3 systems, but I suspect that Eagle continued to use the spring brakes in later models.
I re-plumbed my system so that it did not require the foot pedal application to release the brakes. That makes it operate like a truck and is much less frustrating (my parking brakes had a bad habit of not releasing).
If you truly have a DD3 system, you can’t re-plumb the system as far as I know, since releasing the brake is a mechanical function rather than a function of just releasing the air.
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm |
Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member
Username: Bob_greenwood
Post Number: 678
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 64.136.49.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:36 am: | |
TRY THIS....reach down & pull up the brake pedal |
larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member
Username: Larryc
Post Number: 29
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 207.200.116.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:21 pm: | |
Jim, The procedure I mentioned is for maxi cans (spring brakes) standard on model 20. I also have a 1979 model 05 with DD3s. I don't know why the model 20 needs the extra time to equalize. It bothered me at first, I had one of my shop mechanics tell me that the brakes would not release, but they will. Just hold the pedal down until the lite goes off. Extra large check valve? |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member
Username: Rv_safetyman
Post Number: 248
Registered: 1-2004
Posted From: 67.142.130.33
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 1:28 pm: | |
Larry, thanks for the confirmation that the Eagle 20 uses spring brakes. I somehow mis-read your first post.
My Eagle 10 used to give me fits about releasing. I even changed the spring cans to make sure they were not the problem (wanted to do that as preventative maintenance anyway).
I tired all of the tips that folks gave me on this and other boards. I tried various lengths of time holding the pedal down, lifting the pedal, lubing the pedal, etc. Nothing worked.
It was very frustrating. I could get about two tries before I had to build pressure again. Sometimes it took many tries and several minutes. One time, I seemed to get a partial release and one of the brakes was dragging (only did that once).
I think my problem was one of the two valves that make the system different from a truck. Eagle used a combination of an SV-1 and a DC-4 valve to force the release of the brake via the pedal application. I suspect that one of those valves was gummed up. They can be cleaned and rebuilt fairly easily. The two valves are plumbed together and, as I recall, the SV-1 valve did not appear to be a standard version (not sure on the fact).
I did not work on the two valves. Rather, I decided that I did not need the “safety” feature of the pedal application (designed to protect from some idiot passenger releasing the brakes). Instead, I re-plumbed the system so that the combination SV-1 and DC-4 valves were removed from the system (a bit more complicated but that is the quick statement). Now, I never worry about the breaks releasing.
In any case, if all else fails, those two valves are the most likely culprits.
BTW, these two valves are located in the lower outside compartment by the driver’s area on the Eagle 10.
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm |
Arthur J Griffith (Arthurseagle)
Registered Member
Username: Arthurseagle
Post Number: 22
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 72.236.102.206
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 1:36 pm: | |
Hi Mr Brian, Hope you are having a good day today. Enjoyed our chat last night.
ARTHUR |
larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member
Username: Larryc
Post Number: 30
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 207.200.116.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:00 pm: | |
Thanks Jim, It amazes me that a truck can run with a treddle valve, a couple of relay valves and a quick release. A bus has to carry around about 200 lbs of air valves to do the same thing. There is redundency under there to have enough spare parts via elemination, to keep a coach running forever and still have brakes! If Brian tries a little air brake alcohol directly into his SV-1 or DC-4 maybe it would clean them up. I like the bypass fix, its like getting rid of a possible future problem and 5 pounds of ugly fat at the same time. I don't have my 1979 manual handy, but I think the DD3 has the necessary air lines to be changed to a maxi can. The maxi just needs air pressure to pull the spring off and the service line for brake application and maybe a QR valve to set the brakes. I think the DD3 is safer (no brake fires) but both seem to work effectively. |
Tony Gojenola (Akbusnut)
Registered Member
Username: Akbusnut
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 24.237.217.192
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:53 pm: | |
That DC-4 valve also serves as an anti-compounding device. So, if you eliminate it from your system you need to include some kind of anti-compounding valve in the replumbing.
read about it in this document:
http://bendix.com/bendix/downloads/air_brake_handbook/Control_section_3.pdf
tg |
Jim Wilke (Pd41044039)
Registered Member
Username: Pd41044039
Post Number: 120
Registered: 2-2001
Posted From: 207.244.171.125
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 11:14 pm: | |
You guys might want to rethink removing that safety feature from the Eagle or any bus. We also have a 4104 with spring brakes. Since that was not original, the previous owner installed the parking valve on the switch panel to the left of the driver. One day, while I was getting something from the front left bay, my bus rolled across a parking lot as I tried to get around to the door (from the driver's side) because our dog released the park brake as he pushed the button down as he stood in the seat with his feet on that switch panel and park valve.
This sounds funny but the bus could have hit several cars or run someone (including me) over because of this incident. Shoot, it could have rolled off a cliff somewhere and killed my wife who was in the rear of the bus.
There have also been many cases where kids (in our case friend's kids or grandkids maybe?) have released bus's brakes. These anti release valves are on buses because there are lots of crazy, stupid or uneducated people on and around buses and this is not normally the case with big trucks.
I was lucky, my dog did this in a nearly flat Wal Mart lot with nothing in front of the bus, not at the Grand Canyon or somewhere.
Just my opinion.
Jim Bob |
John Harrelson (Jharl)
Registered Member
Username: Jharl
Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 72.87.63.213
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 6:15 pm: | |
Hi all,
What is the basic differance between dd3 and spring brakes, on my 95 cabover I just had chamber replaced because the spring was broken in the emergency side. is that a spring brake chamber. please explain the basics |