| Author | Message | ||
| Austin Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 86 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
I finally was able to put pressure on the fuel system without running the engine this weekend. I immediately saw that fuel was oozing out from around at least 3 of the injectors. (Injector seal) SO,,, My next question is, Should I just replace the injector seals or should I replace the whole injector? The engine runs OK so I think the injectors are operating fine. And another thing, I looked at the injectors to see which ones I had and only three had the tag on them. The tag was Orange with N65 on it. This is not even close to the numbers listed in the DD Engine book. If I decide to replace the whole injector do I go by the book or replace with what is in there now? . | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 671 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
replace all seals | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Austin. Since the injectors are working ok you should only do the seals. You have a known commodity w/your working injectors, keep them. Have you been running any of the new fuel? 3 at the same time makes me wonder. | ||
| Hans (Buellhans)
Registered Member Username: Buellhans Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 199.60.181.9 Rating: N/A |
Yes if its not misfiring ,just replace the seals why fix what isnt broke . maybe if you have the valve covers off check the tune up . | ||
| Hans (Buellhans)
Registered Member Username: Buellhans Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 199.60.181.9 Rating: N/A |
Are we talking 92 engine? | ||
| Austin Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 87 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
NEW FUEL? I use what I get at the BP. I'll read up on the tune-up and check it out. I was hoping that not much would be necessary if I only replace the seals. The engine is a 6-71. 1960 4104. Any Idea why the injector number does not match what they call out in the book? . | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 674 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
lots of people think they need bigger injectors to go faster...R.V. ing isn't a race | ||
| Austin Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 88 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
I agree Bob, speed is not what I think of when driving the bus. But power is, and maybe that is what they were striving for. I don't know how the numbers relate to size when it comes to injectors. "N" meaning type? "65" meaning what, size/number of the orifices. So having the N-65 is nothing to worry about? Would they have made any other modification to go along with the injector "upgrade"? . | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 675 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
naaaa.. just replace the seals and double check your work with another pressure up...ya NEVER want fuel in your oil.. | ||
| Hans (Buellhans)
Registered Member Username: Buellhans Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 199.60.181.9 Rating: N/A |
6v71 no seals on the tubes just replace the lines longs and shorts , they are prone to craking from vibration ddc part numbers ddc23511850 and 23511851 they change up a couple times but thatll get you there Dont over tighten them snug plus a bit . dont reef on them .good luck | ||
| Hans (Buellhans)
Registered Member Username: Buellhans Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 199.60.181.9 Rating: N/A |
I have 9 N55 injectors new in boxes want to buy them cheap ? | ||
| Austin Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 89 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
Its a 6-71 inline not a V. The book shows seals, but with these being nonstandard injectors they may not have them. So what is the difference between the injectors number wise. . | ||
| Hans (Buellhans)
Registered Member Username: Buellhans Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 199.60.181.9 Rating: N/A |
N spray pattern 65 orfice size and in line should be same should still have the jumper lines and they shouldnt have seals under them there flaired fittings I do belive . Are the racks spring loaded . Two screws on the lever or one ?I have a head for one of them there inline 71 things | ||
| Hans (Buellhans)
Registered Member Username: Buellhans Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 199.60.181.9 Rating: N/A |
seals your not talking about the seals that are on the injector tubes . Im missing something here . Inline 71 right , injector is held in with a crab then two jumper lines right ? Send picture | ||
| Austin Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 90 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
There is no seal between the injector and head, but there is a seal on the injector between the body and nut. Item #10 in the drawing is the seal.  . | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 408 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.126.56 Rating: N/A |
A lot of 4104 owners switched to N65's over the years with advanced timing. Pretty common; they used to have 55's or 60's in revenue service, as they would tolerate lugging by untrained drivers better. Some people have tried 70's, but you have a lot of smoke with them for the little increase in power.If you go down to 55 or 60's, expect a noticeable loss of power, but little smoke on a healthy engine. If you want to be sure of the injectors, you would need to have them flow and timing checked, especially if three don't have tags. Can you get info from original owner? A rebuilt set of matched injectors aren't that expensive. Of course the labor could be high to have them done and the standard tune-up.Seems funny that THREE of them are leaking, as they are normally trouble free. I would still suspect the crossover lines, as they are easy to overtighten by inexperienced mechanics.Injector filter cap nut torque according to DDA book is 65 to 75 foot pounds. The fuel lines or " pipes " are supposed to be at 12 to `15 foot pounds. Some independent injector rebuilding companies may have used an uncommon tag color, or it could be a newer tag color.Military color maybe? BTW, is it a 2 valve or 4 valve engine? | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 409 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.126.56 Rating: N/A |
The filter nuts are where the crossover lines connect to the injector. At the bottom of the line attachment is hex shaped. If you remove the hex nut after removing line ( two lines, two nuts )there is a small copper washer,s and filter,s. | ||
| Austin Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 91 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
It is definitely the seals. I have looked at this very closely and there is NO fuel leaking from the lines or upper portion of the injectors. It comes from around the base of the injector body. I believe it is a 4 valve head. (I've been concentrating on the leak and not much else) . | ||
| Hans (Buellhans)
Registered Member Username: Buellhans Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 199.60.181.9 Rating: N/A |
As was said strange place for them to leak possibly was the bus sitting and did someone break the injector down because it was stuck ? . usally its the jumper lines and I do agree over tightening always does it . The stand pipes are seventy five foot pounds with a copper washer under them . Still seems weird place to leak as far as I have seen . Sure its not running down and looks like it leaking from there ?How much pressure do you have on the fuell system when checking it? | ||
| Austin Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 92 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
The bus did not get much use over the past 4 years prior to us getting it in Aug-06. I rigged up a pressure tank with fuel in it and put about 40 psi on it. The return line was capped off to prevent the fuel from going into the tank. There was a little air in the line due to removing and attaching other lines for the test. Along with the fuel leaking I also saw little air bubbles. they were definitely coming from around the base of the injector. I referred to the engine book, and under low oil pressure due to dilution they point out that it could be the injector seals. It may not be the most common place to leak fuel but it is possible. Otherwise they would not have mentioned it in the book. . | ||
| guy bouchard (Guy_bouchard)
Registered Member Username: Guy_bouchard Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 161.184.192.139 Rating: N/A |
It happens every once in a while that the seals in the injector body will leak, especially if the injectors have been in the engine for a long time and then are disturbed for some reason. The best solution and the safest is to replace all the injectors with rebuilts.The other 3 injectors have been in there for probably the same amount of time, and most likely will start to leak shortly after you have replaced the 3 that are leaking now. As to the color of the tag, is it perhaps brown? A lot of 71's had brown tag 65's installed on overhaul when the engine was moved to advance timing. I notice somewhere somebody said the fuel were torqued to 12 to 15 foot pounds!!!! NO NO it is 12 to 15 INCH POUNDS! guy 4905 (Message edited by Guy_Bouchard on February 14, 2007) | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 686 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
I agree...if it's leaking where you say...that's a non serviceable seal,replace injectors.. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 416 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.126.56 Rating: N/A |
Guy, I check my 6-71 factory manual and my 8-71 manual. They say 12 to 15 foot pounds, except for lines that use o-rings, jake brake type or special coated...they call for 130 to 160 inch pounds, which is about 11 to 13 foot pounds. I would suspect that 12 to 15 inch pound rating is possibly for all copper lines. Most of the latest lines are steel or copper plated steel. If he can obtain the filter gaskets separately, they can't cost much, and would be worth trying. | ||
| guy bouchard (Guy_bouchard)
Registered Member Username: Guy_bouchard Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 161.184.194.145 Rating: N/A |
YOU'RE RIGHT,,,12to 15 ft lbs.....old man's brain fart! sorry about that guy4905 |