| Author | Message | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
Hello, this is my first post so I figured this would be a good one to start with. I am a city bus driver in Evansville, IN. We used to operate 1981 TMC Citycruiser T-30 buses here and they were great buses, reliable and handeled well on the highway. Ours had Detroit 6v53's in them and that is what they are typically powered by. I think they have a style that would be great for a transit conversion. They have flat walls and a more "coach-like" styled front. These buses are 31'7" in length and 96 inches wide. I have attatched a photo of this type of bus, followed by diagrams of it, and below that is a few samples from my plans. Basically what I am wanting to know from experienced bus converters, is what you think of my ideas, what needs improvement, is it realistic etc. Any input would help. Thanks so much!-Kyle Example of bus: http://gallery.bustalk.net/displayimage.php?pid=14035&fullsize=1 My Plans: http://gallery.bustalk.net/displayimage.php?pid=14037&fullsize=1 Exterior idea: http://gallery.bustalk.net/displayimage.php?pid=14036&fullsize=1 (Message edited by busmancow on February 19, 2007) | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 704 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
whatever turns you on...but...no bays from water tanks,water heater ,storage... & normaly,very slow on the hiway | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 309 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.40.13.85 Rating: N/A |
Here's some other idea's These are re-engineered Classic GMC 26' footers amazing what they did in 26' http://www.bdub.net/publications/Clasco/clasco_dry_bath_flyer.html http://www.bdub.net/publications/Clasco/clasco_twin_bed_flyer.html Pete RTS/Daytona P.S. couldn't view the large versions of your layouts can you send me a copy hawk_ii_mail --at-- yahoo.com | ||
| JW Smythe (Jwsmythe)
Registered Member Username: Jwsmythe Post Number: 271 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 72.91.85.239 Rating: N/A |
I'm more partial to the RTS, but like Bob said, whatever turns you on.  He's partially right on the storage though. You don't have the large areas that something like an MCI has, but you still have something work with. If I remember right (which I may be wrong), you still have a space about 2 feet deep to work with. You're not going to park a small car in there, but you can still put reasonably sized tanks in. How's the gearing for highway speeds? When I picked up mine, I found out the hard way that the 60mph top speed is seriously 60mph. It was scary driving down I-75. With the good gears (Thanks Pete), it's reasonable. I haven't hit "top speed" with it yet, but it goes fast enough to keep up with the faster traffic, and I can even navigate around the slower cars (very carefully). | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.130 Rating: N/A |
I was having trouble above getting my pictures to display correctly, so here are links to them where they are posted in my albums on Bustalk.net. Example of bus: http://gallery.bustalk.net/displayimage.php?pid=14035&fullsize=1 My Plans: http://gallery.bustalk.net/displayimage.php?pid=14037&fullsize=1 Exterior idea: http://gallery.bustalk.net/displayimage.php?pid=14036&fullsize=1 | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 707 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
looks well thought out..go for it | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.130 Rating: N/A |
Bob Greenwood and JW Smythe- As far as underfloor storage goes, you are right, there is not much, about 2 feet or so. However I figure the water tanks could go in the location where the rear stepwell was for the exit door as there will be clear space there once the door is removed and sealed over. The generator can go on the street side of the coach just rear of the battery compartment door, I have seen this done on this bus in person and know it will work with ample room, or for that matter there is also enough room in the curb side rear access compartment, but I would preffer not to clutter the engine compartment. For the water heater that may be able to fit forward of the water tanks (former exit door area) just behind the fuel tank.As for storage there would be I would guess only a few sqaure feet left under the coach, and thats if I make another compartment in front of the battery door. Some additional storage asside from cabinets I would put over the engine compartment as that is open in these buses so long as I can seal it off well to prevent fumes from ruining clothes etc. As for speed, the ones we used to have would top out at around 70 mph, but most would achieve that speed reasonably fast. Pete/RTS Daytona- Those classic GMC motorhomes sure are an eye catcher, and pretty collectable as I hear. I think you can have everthing you need in that amount of space with careful planning. And by the way, as far as transit conversions go I do belive the RTS is the most attractive of them all for converting, my reasons for a TMC or Orion Citycruiser though or more because thats the buses I grew up around and they are kinda special to me and I would like to preserve one in a way...even though it would be for a different use it would be a new life for that bus! Thanks everyone for your input btw. You are all very helpful and informative. | ||
| Jim & Linda Callaghan (Jimc)
Registered Member Username: Jimc Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2004 Posted From: 66.175.195.35 Rating: N/A |
That is the nice thing about busN, you do what you want & how you want! I see no reason whay it would not work, you seem to have put a lot of thought into it, more than a lot of folk. The short bus would be an asset in some camp areas, and if you never had the other 5-10 feet, you will never miss it. Do it your way JimCallaghan | ||
| steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225 Rating: N/A |
Kyle, each of us have our own reasons for the buses we have. Your doing a good thing restoring a piece of your past. After all its the memories that keep us going in life itself. I think thats why when we grow up to be big boys we each try to buy or build for ourselves the things we could not have or aford as teens. This is the passion that keeps this hobby alive and makes us all bus nuts over it. Go for it, build it, and every time you drive it down the road youll be going down memory lane no matter where you go. Happy Bussing and well see you and yours at a rally sometime in the near future.................Steve and Deb | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.130 Rating: N/A |
Also do you all think it would be possible to complete such a conversion for $20,000 or less? Provided I do most all the body work, plumbing, and interior work and have the electrical and engine work done elsewhere? Lets assume I got the bus I wanted for $1,000 or less in decent running condition. Also here are some of the more important specs. below for this bus: Length-31'7" Width-96" Height 114" Floor Height-33.5" Curb weight-19,250 lbs. Suspension-Full air-front:2 bellows 12.5 w/2 shock absorber/rear 4 12.5 w/4 shock absorbers Engine-Detroit Diesel 6v53 w/N45 injectors, 183 h.p. at 2500 r.p.m., 225 h.p. w/ turbo Transmission-Allison MT 643 4 speed automatic trans. w/ 2nd gear start Rear axle-transit ratio:5.57 2,500 RPM 58 mph, highway ratio:4.63 2,500 RPM 75 mph Link to online sales literature: http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/builders/orion.html | ||
| steve gaines (Kysteve)
Registered Member Username: Kysteve Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 74.140.165.225 Rating: N/A |
Kyle, you might get by with 20, Using some salvage items and scratch and dent. Check out ebay, I saved a ton on there building my stick and staple last year. But youd have to really watch your budget. And thats just for the conversion alone. Not including any major mechanical work. Also check the scale on your kitchen in your conversion, as I think it might be a little tight to get it all in there. Standard mesurements are 24 deep 36 tall, and at least 20 inches wide for an rv style sink and 20 wide for a range top, fridge is about 26 inches. See yall............Steve | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 310 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.40.13.85 Rating: N/A |
Kyle I posted the GMC Classic Motorhome links - only to give you some more idea of interior layouts in a small area - not to suggest you should ditch your idea of converting the THM citycruiser My 35' ft RTS also has limited space - I think your project is completely do-able Have at it guy - To each his own - Good luck my man Pete RTS/Daytona Here's some more pic's of designing interiors in a smaller bus - (My RTS is is only 35') http://community.webshots.com/user/hawk_ii look for RTS Pic's example - My Lowes 20 gallon water heater fits perfectly under my bathroom sink - cause I used a marine style drain that comes off the sink at a right angles - leaving plenty of space for my water heater - My waste tank is combined gray and black at 90 Gallons with a macerator to get to the drivers side for discharge. - I have a huge inside closet that takes advantage of where the bus A/C was over the engine - Plenty of overhead cabinets (even in the front living room area - to give me what I don't have in bays) There's ALWAYS a way | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1192 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.112.181 Rating: N/A |
Kyle - Since that little TMC is a "T-drive", I'd suggest that you pull the screamin' 6V53 and replace it with a 6V92TA - would give you an instant 100 more HP, and the tranny you have will handle it - as long as you don't "hot rod" the 92. Leaving the 92 in stock coach configuration of 275 hp would be plenty, unless you build it heavy inside. Also, since this is a 96" coach, finding a rear axle out of a highway coach with a 3.70:1 ratio that fits would be relatively easy - especially since TMC was also building MC-9s in Roswell at the same time your coach was built. TMC used Rockwell/Meritor axles, very common. Just find a "dead" MC8 or 9 and you're good to go. That 3.70 will give you about 75 mph @ 2100 rpm with the 92-series and 12R22.5 tires - far better than the original factory gearing. Would be a LOT quieter, too. . . not to mention the ability to smoke most of the mega-buck monster Marathons on 6% grades. Interesting choice, interesting challenge - the journey begins! FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.130 Rating: N/A |
Pete- I really like your RTS, VERY nice and well done. You can do alot with a smaller bus, do you think you have ample room in your 35 footer? I always kind of pictures mine being that it would be a 30 footer, as having more of a cool sleek hot-rod look rather than a motorhome look, which should be much easier to acheive with a smaller bus. I see you have done the closet in the former A/C unit area, I was thinking the same thing, perfect for hanging shirts etc and would look mighty sharp with mirrired sliding doors! Does it stay clean in there being over the engine? The reason I ask is that all of our buses at work accumulate so much crud from diesel exhaust/fumes in that area and it even makes its way into the rest of the bus and turns the walls black. And you can never have enough cabinets! Have a hard time making them into the curved walls of the RTS? -Kyle | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.130 Rating: N/A |
RJ- Yeah true, while the 6v53 has one of the coolest "hot-rod" like sounds of a diesel engine, noise pollution is not what is wanted of a good coach! The 6v92 sounds like a good choice, is that better than a 6v71 for power and effieciency? What do you think about a Catarpillar 3208? I have come across some of these buses with those, we had some in our old trolleys and they are VERY strong runners and take a good beating, but like the 53 they are loud. Also with a 6v92 would that mean I would have to change the rear end or would it remain the same since I would use the original tranny? Thanks for your input, very interesting! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1193 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.112.181 Rating: N/A |
Kyle - You're still piloting a transit around town? What's Evansville running nowdays in their fleet? Suggest you meander over to the shop before/after one of your shifts (depending on whether you're working a daylight, twilight or split) and talk to some of the old-timers in the shop. The mechanics can give you a LOT of info about these critters - especially about their weak points. Back to the commentary: It appears that you don't actually have one of these little T-30s. Finding one may be a challenge - they weren't very popular to begin with. Finding one without major rust issues would be an even greater challenge - they weren't known for excellent rustproofing. ALWAYS have a potential candidate for purchase inspected thoroughly by a competent bus technician before spending your hard-earned cash!! Buses are easy to buy, but hard to sell. . . Another powertrain that might just bolt straight in would be a four-stroke Series 50 mated to a B500 transmission. You'd have to obtain the complete wiring harness for this DDEC/ATEC combination from the donor bus in order for it to run properly, but this would give you the best combination of power, economy and emissions, as the newer electronic engines are far better at keeping the tree-huggers happy. Quick Detroit Diesel Lesson: The 53, 71 and 92 in a Detroit's nomenclature indicates the number of cubic inches per cylinder. V = V-block, as opposed to an inline (6L71 or 6-71). T = Turbocharged, A = Aftercooled. The TA engines are the most efficient of the two-strokes, both for power, economy and emissions. You can do the math to see which engine meets the Hot Rodder's Credo: "There's no substitute for cubic inches!" Quick Rear Axle Ratio Lesson: Larger rear axle ratio numbers equal faster acceleration, lower top speed, better hill-climbing ability and increased fuel consumption at the same road speed. Smaller rear axle ratio numbers equal just the opposite. Look at the numbers you posted from the sales brochure, compared to the number I posted for the MC-8s and MC-9s. With the powertrain, EVERYTHING'S A COMPROMISE! You must do your homework in order to get it right. And we haven't even started to talk about engine/transmission cooling issues yet. As for the Cat 3208 - they're "throwaway" engines - ask any Cat dealer. Make terrific boat anchors, especially once they start blowing blue smoke. Suggest you spend some of your free time reading the archives on this site - tons of information to digest. Use the "search" function at the bottom of the page to reach them. Also the "Articles Of Interest" section will keep you entertained for hours, too. Your journey is just beginning! FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 311 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.40.13.85 Rating: N/A |
Kyle you wrote--> (1)...do you think you have ample room in your 35 footer? REPLY-> (1) - more than enough room <>Foward lounge: driver's side->6' foot convertable couch + 6' x 1' x 1' overhead cabinets Passenger side->6' (twin Captains chairs w/snack tray + 6' x 1' x 1' overhead cabinets <>Kitchen/dineete: Driver's side-> 6' kitchen w/convection/microwave + twin 2' Cabinets with 2' center shelf over sink 2' 9.5cuft L/P Refer passenger side-> 6' Dinnette (coverts to bed) + ' overhead cabinets 2' Washer/dryer combo w /huge pantry on top Walk thru bath (pocket doors for privacy: Drivers side 5'-> dual 18" hanging closets / 3 drawers below & 24" bathroom sink between closets passenger side-2' toilet area+3' neoangle shower 80" Bedroom - twin beds take come together at night - separate for additional dressing area dual 5' overhead cabinets + rear overhead cabinet 6' x 2' x 3' Mirrored hanging closet over engine you wrote: (2)...all of our buses at work accumulate so much crud from diesel exhaust/fumes in that area and it even makes its way into the rest of the bus and turns the walls black. REPLY-> once the rear A/C unit was removed and the doors are no longer open most of the time - no soot you wrote: (3)...hard time making them into the curved walls of the RTS? REPLY-> I used treated 2" x 4" riv-nutted to the ceiling and just below the top of the windows to mount the 1' x 1' x how-ever long cabinets - this leaves a wire chase area above and behind the cabinets - Plus a mounting area for your window binds and valances Pete RTS/Daytona | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
RJ- Yes I am still a bus driver. I started with METS when I was 16 as a cleaner in the maintenance department, moved up to being a Utility at 18, then at 21 a full-time bus driver and still doing it and plan to for years to come. By the way I am probably the youngest person on the board being as I am only 22! I know the TMC T-30 buses pretty well inside and out, and that is another reason I would like to have one, it would be something I would feel comfortable working on. Currently we have 95,97, and 01 Gillig Phantoms and 2006 Gillig Advantage Low-Floor hybrid electric buses. None of them are holding up like the good ole' Citycruisers.There are links below for our buses. I almost purchased my favorite old one at the auction but could not find anywhere to store it. Now I do have a place to store one and it is far too late for that particular bus. The profile pic. I have is an Orion I that I was going to purchase that has been begun as a conversion, and was off to a rather good start, but had engine problems and the seller wanted entirely too much for it so I did not buy it. Thanks for the mechanical knowledge, that does help. I never worked on engines or trannys much unless I was helping, but was pretty decent at air systems, doors, wheelchair lifts, etc and doing regular services. -Kyle (Cow) 2001 METS Gillig Phantom http://gallery.bustalk.net/displayimage.php?album=275&pos=0 2006 METS Gillig Low Floor Hybrid http://gallery.bustalk.net/displayimage.php?album=275&pos=21 All METS Buses in my gallery on Bustalk http://gallery.bustalk.net/thumbnails.php?album=275 P.S. Also yes they do have rusting problems under the bus, but it was primarily confined to the front where the wheelchair lift was located. We think that was mainly caused by removing the lifts and their protective pan leaving the underframe exposed. As for the rest goes, it was showing signs of it, but could be prevented if you can find one in decent shape. (Message edited by busmancow on February 20, 2007) | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
Pete- Yeah it does look like you have plenty of room in there! I really like the crisp look of the drivers cockpit with the flatscreen above, and the woodwork. Is that all real wood? The wood around the windows is wonderful! Im really good at woodworking so I think for that stuff I would be in good shape! Have you kept the same suspension as it had when it was a bus? Oh and just out of curiosity, how about the R&M door? Easy to install? | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
Steve (Kysteve)- It is important preseving the past, and these buses always made me smile and I have so many good memories of them and on them. And yes ebay does have a bulk of wondorful items. I will check the kitchen area on that plan. When I did it,it was not measured. I started with an actual floorplan of the bus itself which is accurate, but everything I added in was more or less eye-balled. | ||
| Chris Peters (Chris_85_rts)
Registered Member Username: Chris_85_rts Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.194.150.45 Rating: N/A |
I had my doubts until I saw the proposed mud flaps, and now it is a winner. Why not be unique, go for it. | ||
| norcal kyle (Kylexisxrad)
Registered Member Username: Kylexisxrad Post Number: 117 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 216.220.208.126 Rating: N/A |
actually I think I'm probably the youngest kyle on the board at a mere 21yrs and 9mo, and with a big ol' 40ft Eagle 10 parked in my driveway as you read this. although unlike the other kyle, nobody pays me to drive my bus.  kyle in norcal 1980 Eagle 10 #30223 | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
Chris-Yessss the mudflaps, a must have! Kyle- Man this place is bigger than I thought! Cool you have an Eagle 10, any pics? A local church here has 3 of them, I drove one once, a nice bus but I never could undertand why Eagle puts the tag axle ahead of the drive axle or what difference it makes, any idea why? | ||
| Arthur N.Gaudet (Runcutter)
Registered Member Username: Runcutter Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 76.183.112.85 Rating: N/A |
Kyle, I strongly second RJ's recommendation that you talk with some senior maintenance folks. I started in the business the same way (and about the same age) as you, but many more decades ago. I've managed systems with Citicruisers, and many of them had the bad habit of breaking (cracked frame members) between the rear door and the rear axle. I seem to remember the spotting feature, the inspection point as looking for rust/movement in the body panel rivets between the beltrail and the roof, as well as sighting down the beltrail. I don't remember the vintage (early, late manufacture), and whether TMC (or Orion) ever dealt with the issue. (If I recall, it was actually an Orion 1 built under license - that may mean you want to think about an Orion version, too.) I did run a fleet of 1981's when I managed Lima, OH - but they were only a few years old then. In the late 1980's, I remember seeing some in Laredo TX, that looked like they were trying to drag their tails down the street behind them. Right now, there's a TMC or Orion in the storage yard where we keep our 4107 - every once in a while I look at it and it looks like it has a dip in the beltrail, just forward of the rear axle (although, I haven't looked all that closely). This knowledge may also help you think about hanging a larger engine back there. This is not to scare you off, just to inform you of a known weakness to look for. Most buses have/had their own weaknesses - early GM fishbowls, you knew if they had cracked engine bulkheads by looking at the builders plate. I read alot about Eagle rust (no firsthand knowledge, I'm a GM guy). If you know what to look for, and use the experience of others, you're far ahead of the game. You might also check with some of the other area properties to find some senior maintenance folks. For some reason, I seem to think that Indianapolis had some Citicruisers back then, but I may be wrong. It's important to preserve the past - my original desire was a TDM or TDH 4512 (GM Old Look Transit), but I settled on a PD4107 (GM Coach) - the equipment I was around when I was your age. Good luck Arthur | ||
| norcal kyle (Kylexisxrad)
Registered Member Username: Kylexisxrad Post Number: 118 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 216.220.208.123 Rating: N/A |
kyle: from what I've gathered, Eagle switched to a bogie axle configuration from a tag axle style to allow the a/c components to be removed from the rearmost luggage bay and placed in the rear pass. side compartment. I've heard a few ex-Eagle factory workers(who now work @ the new silver eagle bus manf.) tell this to me and others. either way, I like the look a lot. it makes an Eagle easy to spot from 300yds away(as if the slanted caps wouldn't give it away too). they drive nice, provided the suspention is in decent condition, almost like floating, otherwise(as someone on this board put it) its like "driving a diving board". if you hit even a fairly gentle dip in the roadway @ 70mph, you better hold onto the steeing wheel otherwise you'll bump your head on the skylight windows when you get shot outta the seat. good luck with your search. I think you could have a really neat little hotrod if you are willing to devote the time. your floorplan is smart, and like RJ said, throw a 6v92(or a S50 if you really wanted to do it big) in there, and you might actually have FUN driving in the mountains. ill send you a personal mail with a few pics of my bus. kyle in norcal | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 152.163.100.13 Rating: N/A |
Arthur-So do you still work with transit? The city I live in only has one transit system, which is the one I work for, and our mechanics (about 7 guys) are some of my best friends whom I worked with for 5 years in the garage so believe me I have picked their brain for everything they know. Only one suggests holding out for a Gillig instead, since it will just be the body as we keep the engines and trans. and getting a used or rebuilt 8.3 Cummins....thats his suggestion. Now that you mention it I do remember the frame problem from the rear forward of the rear axle, one of our guys had rigged a couple of them up to last a few more years before they were retired. Indianapolis had some Orion I buses, I know that but Im not sure if they ever had Citycruisers, I would have to look at my delivery sheets. Thanks for the knowledge, good point about the larger engine too! Kyle-So finally now I have an answer for when all the guys at work ask me about Eagles tag axle! LOL That makes sense I guess. So have any of the new Eagles rolled out yet? Are they only going to make conversion shells? Nice bus you have man, I like it alot. | ||
| Robert Phillips (Orion)
Registered Member Username: Orion Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.108.102.138 Rating: N/A |
I have a 1986 Orion 35ft, which is actually 37ft long, and it has a 6v92ta in it, which I don’t think was offered when your bus was built but our buses are identical except for the length so I would say that you would be able to put in the 6v92ta with no problem. So far I have raised the roof 18" and raised the floor 8" so that I have 7'-6" of headroom in the center and about 6'11" on the sides. By raising the floor I have pretty much gotten rid of the wheel wells and gained a bunch of room for tanks under the bus. As far as rust my bus came with about a 1/4" of under coating under the bus and half way up the inside and as far as rivets iam confused because my Orion does not have any rivets except underneath were they used them for the bulk heads for the compartments. The sides of the bus use a spot weld like on a car body to fasten the skin onto the frame. If you would like to see pics let me now and I will send them to you or if you would like to now how to put in the 6v92ta i could take pics of that for you. It’s great to now that iam not the only one converting an Orion I think it is a great plat form to work with | ||
| Arthur N.Gaudet (Runcutter)
Registered Member Username: Runcutter Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 76.183.112.85 Rating: N/A |
Kyle, yes - still in the business but doing operations and scheduling consulting now. Gilligs are good buses, I don't know of any systems that aren't happy with theirs. From my point of view, its more important to look for what you want/like, as long as you can be sure its a good vehicle. If you _want_ a Citicruiser, it'd be hard to be happy with a Flxible. So, a list of your criteria (and tradeoffs) may help. Be sure to include criteria for coach condition. I remember buying some used AM Generals from Indianapolis in the early 1980's - they were fine for their intended use, two trippers/day, but Indy was selling them because they'd worn out. Even if I liked AM Generals, I wouldn't think of buying them for my personal use, even if I could get the same deal today, because my wallet couldn't stand the necessary overhaul work. My criteria - a GMC 4106 or Deck & a Half (Buffalo, in certain parts of the country). Must have the original body, no caps for me - total dealbreaker. Original 4-speed transmission, etc. In looking for a 4106, I found a 4107, already converted, that was close enough (had a couple of windows changed out, and fiberglas on the rear, but looks close enough to original to be ok for now - I may restore the original fenestration at some point. The point is that I wanted a GMC - I don't care if others prefer another make (Example, "You should buy a Fitzjohn" - answer, "NO, YOU should buy a Fitzjohn, I want a GMC" - my money goes where I want. They have good points, but if I'd deferred to someone else's preference for an Eagle, MCI, etc. - I wouldn't be happy with my purchase. Equally important, was not to let my desire overwhelm my brains - in addition to meeting all my other specs, it had to be a sound, roadworthy vehicle. So, as part of the list of criteria, do you want to preserve some of your history (that's what I did), or is that less important to you. Do you want a vehicle that you can use, at highway speeds - maybe to go the Museum of Bus Transportations's open house on June 2 (Hershey, PA), or to stay real local in Indiana? (That helps you decide between a coach or a transit). What is the minimum acceptable condition for the vehicle, at the time of purchase? Can you get parts - (that pretty much rules out some Neoplans)? Is it a toy, and can you afford a toy, or is it a reasonably sound business decision? (Personal business, just like buying a used car - I'd love an AmphiCar, an amphibious car built in the 1960's or so, but the house needs work, I haven't won the lottery, you get the drift). Main point - research, research, research, and don't make hasty decisions. Remember, if something is a good idea today, it'll still be a good idea tomorrow. Good luck. Arthur | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 720 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.27.225 Rating: N/A |
20,000 or less...you bet, some of us aren't rich...if it wasn't for garage sales & salvation army store,I'd be unfinished... | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 77 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.214.167 Rating: N/A |
Kyle...go for it..."listen" to the great advice here and do your thing. Best wishes; great floor plans. RJL has looooong time experience with these critters and knows "his stuff". Listen up!! so do others...with best wishes. FWIW RCB '64 Crown Supercoach (HWC) | ||
| Kyle Fowler (Busmancow)
Registered Member Username: Busmancow Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.130 Rating: N/A |
Robert-I sent you an e-mail. Arthur-I see just where you are coming from and totally agree. Preserving part of my past is very important in this case. I love buses of all kinds, but if I get one it is going to be this type and in a 30 foot version or Im not getting one! LOL I was going to get one to preserve and restore to is former glory, and that would be nice as well one day, but I also want a motorhome, well for now I can't have both so I think the best think would be to get the more usefull project tackeled first, then if someday I happen to come across a TMC in good condition like we used to run, I will restore it in our livery etc. Its more of a sentimental thing for why I want this type of bus. Long story, I'll share that another time! Bob-Was yours done for under $20,000? R.C. Bishop-He sure does know his stuff! All you guys are really helpful, I can see this is going to be of great use and enjoyement to me. -Kyle |